Target, Semi-Target, Non-Target

econ's picture
Rank: Neanderthal | 2,661

What exactly do these mean? Obviously, schools like Harvard and MIT are considered target schools, but exactly what schools fit into the target and semi-target categories? Also, when people use these terms they're usually referring to undergrad, right?

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Comments (113)

Jan 2, 2010

Target: School that companies interview at
Semi-target: School that companies do resume drops (resume drops allow students to "drop" their resume, but the company doesn't have to interview at the school or any students)
Non-target: Everyone else

Jan 2, 2010

Which schools are in the target and semi-target category? (Or, if it's easier, what caliber/rank of schools fall in the target and semi-target category?)

Jan 2, 2010

From what I've gathered:

From the Bank's prespective - a target school is a school where they recruit on campus. MS recruits at my school, therefore it is a target for MS. JPM does not recruit at my school, therefore it is not a target for JPM. I also believe banks have some schools that are "targets" only for specific divisions. For example, GS interviews on my campus for research but not IBD. I'm not on the inside [yet] so I couldn't tell you if banks discriminate between their "targets" and "semi targets" (might have to do w/ the resume drops Alpha referred to).

From this board's perspective - a target school is a school that is a "target" for all major banks (Top/maybe all Ivies, MIT, Gtown, top LAC's, Michigan (i think) etc.). A semi-target is a school that is a "target" for some but not all major banks, like my school (others would probably be "top publics", good non-ivy private schools etc.). A non target is a school that has no major banks that recruit on campus.

Jan 2, 2010

OP, seriously? You are a baboon with 125 pts, which means you have posted on here quite a bit and you still dont know how to use the search function. There are dozens upon dozens of threads on this. As simple search brings up these results:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/search/google?cx=01...
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/school-prest...
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/search/google?cx=01...

Jan 2, 2010
KeepinItReal:

OP, seriously? You are a baboon with 125 pts, which means you have posted on here quite a bit and you still dont know how to use the search function. There are dozens upon dozens of threads on this.

Good point, sorry if I wasted anyone's time. I don't know about you guys, but sometimes I just forget to search before making a post.

So it sounds like target, semi-target, non-target is more about IB and not so much a relevant term with respect to AM (or maybe even HF)?

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Jan 2, 2010

Pantherdb26 has the right idea.

Keep in mind that what's considered target/semi/non differs by bank (some banks have more alums from one school and so that is definitely a target for them, but may not be so for others) and position.

This is not a definitive list, but based on my and my friends' impressions across bulge brackets.

Target = Ivies, MIT, Stanford, Duke, UChicago, Northwestern, Top LACs (Amherst, Williams, Wellesley)
Semi-Target = Top state schools (Michigan, Texas, UVA, Berkeley, UCLA, Rice)
Non-Target = everything else

Also, I wouldn't underestimate the chances of getting into banking/what have you if you come from a semi or non-target. Oftentimes for non-targets/semi-targets the initial resume screen is much harder to pass (given that there are already so many resumes from target schools) - however, after you pass that, you have just a better relative chance of getting the offer since there are fewer interviewed from your school. After the resume screen, It's all about fitting in with the culture of the firm and group you're interviewing at, and it's easier to leave a lasting impression if you are some times not from a target school.

Chase Us, Break In!

Banking & Consulting: RESUME AND COVER LETTER RE-WRITES
http://chasingconsultantsbreakingbankers.blogspot....

    • 1
Jul 7, 2016

Rice is not a state school and we are in fact a target. Every major bank does recruiting as Rice including GS, MS, CS, JPM, etc. By recruiting I mean holding formal information sessions, resume drops, on campus first rounds, and superdays in Houston. We are not a "target" for New York offices, but are for all Houston offices which are usually focused on Oil & Gas/Energy IBD.

Mar 11, 2010

Target: almost every BB and elite boutique recruit at your school
Semi-target: half of BB/elite boutiques, lots of MM and regional boutiques
Non-target: only Wolverine Trading recruits

Also when shit hits the fan, some targets move up to semi-target category and vice-verse.

Feb 6, 2010

Let me get this straight.. Lazard has Rice listed on their website.. so that makes Rice their target right?

Aug 3, 2016

I can confirm that Rice is a 100% percent target for the Houston office.

Feb 6, 2010

Not necessarily:
*They could be hiring for back office
*Maybe there is only 1 position open for few schools, and Rice is in that group.
*They could be visiting Rice for "AA checkmark." (like they are giving chance to everyone, not just H/Y/P)

Duke is not listed on Lazard's website, so go figure.

Feb 6, 2010

ah I see thanks! yeah I was surprised to not see a lot of bigger names myself

Feb 6, 2010

This is another stupid thread.

Sep 18, 2013

What about target schools in Europe? Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, King's College or Ludwig-Maximilians-Universitat Munchen? Are these universities relevant for IB?

Jul 7, 2016

These are all targets schools of varying degree by order. Everything slightly below the list (Vanderbilt/Notre Dame for eg. are semi's but solid schools). I wouldn't be too consenered with target/semi-target as much as maximizing your experience at the school.

1) Harvard University
2) Stanford University
3) University of Chicago (Booth)
4) University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
5) Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan)
6) Northwestern University (Kellogg)
7) University of California-- Berkeley (Haas)
8) Dartmouth College (Tuck)
9) Yale University
10) Columbia University
11) Duke University (Fuqua)
12) New York University (Stern)
13) University of Michigan-- Ann Arbor (Ross)
14) Cornell University (Johnson)
15) University of Virginia (Darden)
16) University of California-- Los Angeles (Anderson)
17) University of North Carolina-- Chapel Hill (Kenan- Flagler)
18) Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper)
19) Emory University (Goizueta)
20) Georgetown (Mcdonough)

Aug 3, 2016

but exactly what schools fit into the target and semi-target categories?
very broad definitions that you can use employment reports or reputation to confirm:

undergrad - targets are those with BEST reputation, WIDEST CHOICES of career and HIGHEST salary numbers.
semi-targets has similar star power within its local region (e.g. Northeast, Midwest, South, etc) but weakens severely to top national choices.

MBA - top 15 MBA programs that commonly are open for fellowship programs @ BB banks or MBB consulting. many schools also claim themselves among top 20, top 25, top 50, etc., but the career opportunities diminish rapidly after T15.

Also, when people use these terms they're usually referring to undergrad, right?
refer above. usually for recruiting purposes.

Best Response
Aug 3, 2016

no

    • 2
Aug 3, 2016

Richmond and SMU do pretty well regionally, as I understand it. Not so much in NYC.

Aug 3, 2016

Babson, Bentley and I'd say Fordham are decent... Not targets though. It's not the school you go to, its what you make of it.

I am not too familiar with the others you listed but those are the 3 best I believe.

Aug 3, 2016

I'll rank them for you, from best to worst.

American
Babson
Bentley
Fordham
Penn State
Richmond
Southern Methodist University

Aug 3, 2016

Penn St. has been doing okay the past few years...not great but it can be done

SMU has OCR for all the Houston banks. A few make it to NYC every year, but Houston is the norm. Helps to be in a frat

Aug 3, 2016

Top Targets: DeVry, University of Phoenix

    • 2
    • 4
Aug 3, 2016

Richmond places a few on the street every year but most, that I know, are through connections that they had before they got there (family, etc)

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Aug 3, 2016

Babson's undergrad business program is very strong and highly rated, not sure how it places in banks though. Check on linkedin.

Courtesy of Wiki: "In 2010, Bloomberg Businessweek ranked Babson's undergraduate program #17 overall in the country, as well as giving Babson the second-most, tied with Cornell University, top-10 specialty rankings among leading undergraduate business programs"

Only problem (this is hearsay from a classmate who was on a year abroad there), it's miles from civilization and the nearest village is a "dry town," not exactly party central even for a tiny 3,500 student college.

Aug 3, 2016

Fordham- not great for Wall Street at all
Babson- might do okay if you have contacts and a high gpa
Bentley- no, no and no
Penn State- supply chain management or marketing at any company on earth, no to Wall Street
Southern Methodist University- join a top frat, go to IB in houston or Stephens
American- not a chance
Richmond- places 10+ kids a year into S&T in NYC, less into IB (need contacts) but does very well in the SE...small finance program but the kids all end up fine

Flying Higher and Higher

    • 2
Aug 3, 2016
FratStreetVA:

Fordham- not great for Wall Street at all
Babson- might do okay if you have contacts and a high gpa
Bentley- no, no and no
Penn State- supply chain management or marketing at any company on earth, no to Wall Street
Southern Methodist University- join a top frat, go to IB in houston or Stephens
American- not a chance
Richmond- places 10+ kids a year into S&T in NYC, less into IB (need contacts) but does very well in the SE...small finance program but the kids all end up fine

Why do you think Fordham is so bad?

Aug 3, 2016

I know Goldman NYC recruits PSU pretty well. My buddy got hired from PSU and participated on the firm's side of OCR.

Aug 3, 2016

When I was networking with Boston boutiques I saw Bentley had a decent showing fwiw

Aug 3, 2016

My Two Cents...

I have had superdays at almost all BBs and some MMs primarily for banking but some for S&T this year.

  • I ran into a Penn State kid at everyone of my superdays (seriously)
  • I also agree that Penn State does well at GS, and is well represented across the street although I do not know their OCR situation
  • SMU is a shit load of fun, and can attest to the fact that some fortunate/hardworking kids make it to NYC each year.
  • SMU also offers a pretty cool concentration in alternative Asset Management if you're in Cox SoB, and they have some smoke shows
  • I have also seen a bunch of Richmond kids on the street
  • As far as the other schools, I don't know too much about them other then the fact I have never interviewed with, met, networked with, etc from anyone from these schools.
    • 1
Aug 3, 2016

thanks for the replies, do you know anything about northeastern?

Aug 3, 2016

There was a post about northeastern a few months back that will probably help you find what your looking for.

Aug 3, 2016

how is fordham for investment management?? it seems like they have a good program and its located in the back yard of wall st.

Aug 3, 2016

How about higher ranked but not top target schools like Tufts, Boston College, Emory, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon?

Aug 3, 2016
tonychokerromo:

How about higher ranked but not top target schools like Tufts, Boston College, Emory, Vanderbilt, Carnegie Mellon?

Tufts is the best school out of the 5, and hardest to get into, but places the worst on the street.

As far as representation:

Vandy
Carnegie Mellon
Emory
BC
Tufs

Aug 3, 2016

Maybe I am wrong, but that is just my opinion from doing Superdays all across the street. I never met any Fordham alums or students once for IBD...I could be wrong though.

Flying Higher and Higher

Aug 3, 2016

Good to know. Sure you're right, just seems like a great place to be, and it's a good school. I know they have good legal programs, but I guess not very motivating financial ones.

Aug 3, 2016

I'll rank them for you, from best to worst.

American
Babson
Bentley
Fordham
Penn State
Richmond
Southern Methodist University

Did you just put them in alphabetical order?

    • 1
Aug 3, 2016

I would say Carnegie Mellon or Vanderbilt are the best out of that group of 5 academically with the edge going to Vandy for Investment Bank and CMU for Trading/Quantitative Strategies.

Aug 3, 2016

I would say Carnegie Mellon or Vanderbilt are the best out of that group of 5 academically with the edge going to Vandy for Investment Bank and CMU for Trading/Quantitative Strategies.

Aug 3, 2016

--

Aug 3, 2016

Fordham is actually decent when it comes placing in IB. In this order, do a quick Linkedin search and you will find tons of people in IB from Fordham.

Columbia
Stern
Fordham/Baruch
Pace

Aug 3, 2016

Anecdotally, a Fordham kid I talked to on here is heading to UBS this summer - said he had to hustle his ass off and they don't get much love on the street though

You can't kill the guys you trade with

Aug 3, 2016

I have met a few PSU people in banking / PE. Even if it is not a target school, some do well coming from PSU

Aug 3, 2016

rice university/wustl have pretty good placement if you hustle hard enough

Aug 3, 2016

Cornell
Georgetown
Michigan
Northwestern
UVA

All pretty easy to get into (especially via transfer)

Aug 3, 2016
Solidarity:

Cornell
Georgetown
Michigan
Northwestern
UVA

All pretty easy to get into (especially via transfer)

Some of those are actually "Targets" bro.

Aug 3, 2016

NYU

Aug 3, 2016

Rice/IU/Miami OH/Vandy/UVA

Aug 3, 2016

USC (California)

Aug 3, 2016

Semi targets for what?
Anyhow, Carnegie Mellon because I'm biased.

Aug 3, 2016

UT
UNC
UCLA
Washington and Lee

Aug 3, 2016

liberal art colleges - Amherst, Midd, Colgate, Macalester, Williams, F&M, Colby, US Naval Academy....

Aug 3, 2016

It doesn't matter what school you go to dude. These so called 'top schools' just help you get your foot in the door. Go to a respected school, get good internships throughout college and you will be able to do whatever you want. Anyone who tells you otherwise is plain wrong. Life isn't about what you know or where you go, it's about who you know and what you've done. Nuff said. A guy from a target who does jack shit and doesn't know anyone will not get "in" over a guy from a non-target who networked and showed massive amounts of drive and ambition. No one here can tell you the best semi target, b/c the best semi-target or target is the school where YOU can excel...only you know you. Sorry for the rant but half the people on this site are delusional and don't know jack shit. If you think I'm one of them then disregard my advice, just know I've been where you're trying to go.

Aug 3, 2016
anonymous101:

It doesn't matter what school you go to dude. These so called 'top schools' just help you get your foot in the door. Go to a respected school, get good internships throughout college and you will be able to do whatever you want. Anyone who tells you otherwise is plain wrong. Life isn't about what you know or where you go, it's about who you know and what you've done. Nuff said. A guy from a target who does jack shit and doesn't know anyone will not get "in" over a guy from a non-target who networked and showed massive amounts of drive and ambition. No one here can tell you the best semi target, b/c the best semi-target or target is the school where YOU can excel...only you know you. Sorry for the rant but half the people on this site are delusional and don't know jack shit. If you think I'm one of them then disregard my advice, just know I've been where you're trying to go.

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate your comments and will certainly consider them when making my decision.

Aug 3, 2016
anonymous101:

It doesn't matter what school you go to dude. These so called 'top schools' just help you get your foot in the door. Go to a respected school, get good internships throughout college and you will be able to do whatever you want. Anyone who tells you otherwise is plain wrong. Life isn't about what you know or where you go, it's about who you know and what you've done. Nuff said. A guy from a target who does jack shit and doesn't know anyone will not get "in" over a guy from a non-target who networked and showed massive amounts of drive and ambition. No one here can tell you the best semi target, b/c the best semi-target or target is the school where YOU can excel...only you know you. Sorry for the rant but half the people on this site are delusional and don't know jack shit. If you think I'm one of them then disregard my advice, just know I've been where you're trying to go.

Okay let me make this easy--target = you can major in sociology with a 3.0, have club water polo as your only extracurricular, get interviews from OCR drops, be a mediocre interviewer, have little knowledge of finance, and still get BB offers. That's what it means to be at a target. A non-target guy will have to put in exponentially more effort to see the exact same returns. Just because you can break in from a random school doesn't mean that students shouldn't maximize their chances and exposure to the best opportunities. Sorry for the rant but most of the people on this site don't understand the simple value proposition of going to a target. If being delusional means I don't want to spend my 4 years of college cold calling/emailing 20 people a day and sucking up to random alums in credit risk just to get a chance at landing an internship then by all means--call me crazy. However, I'm sure that if given a choice, most people would make the same decision.

Wait most of the colleges mentioned in this thread I precived to be targets.. Anyone care to compile a list of Targets?
How can Cornell and NYU not be targets, Stern sends so many to wall street, behind Columbia it is probably one of the best schools for breaking into NYC banking.

Personally, I would consider both Cornell and NYU to be semi-targets. Consistent representation across the street, however, at least at the junior level, the kids I see snagging internships and FT offers have consistently had 3.5's to 3.8's with impressive work experience and extracurriculars. In contrast, I've seen Princeton kids with 3.0's being wined and dined by the MD's who wanted them to accept return offers.

The distinction between is "target" vs. "semi-target" is a little overplayed and frankly not very relevant... once you get an interview the playing field is relatively even.

Aug 3, 2016

Wait most of the colleges mentioned in this thread I precived to be targets.. Anyone care to compile a list of Targets?
How can Cornell and NYU not be targets, Stern sends so many to wall street, behind Columbia it is probably one of the best schools for breaking into NYC banking.

Aug 3, 2016

UGA is a large school with a large alumni base (although I'm unsure of how connected they are in finance). It isn't a target, but that doesn't mean you're screwed.

Consider how transferring to another university will likely be more expensive (tuition is cheap in GA, right?), and you would need to start fresh in terms of networking with other students and professors and gaining leadership positions in student orgs.

That said, I'm at a non-target and can speak from experience that it is much more difficult. If the many difficulties of transferring are not so bad, I suggest you do transfer. Can't say where you should apply. But you shouldn't lose hope; there are tons of threads on this site about non-target success stories that are pretty motivating.

Aug 3, 2016

Not much to add, except Good luck.

I'd second transferring to a target if you could, my first degree is from a small private college, and my second is from a Big 8 uni, and the Big 8 made securing job interviews a lot easier.

Aug 3, 2016

Transfer. Trying to break into a field dominated by Ivy league douchebags from a non-target is a bitch. Why put yourself through such trouble when you could easily transfer to a target given your stats?
http://transferweb.com/stats/transfer-acceptance-r...
Disclaimer: I have no idea how well-represented UGA is on the street

Aug 3, 2016

I'm currently attending a non-target in GA (just graduated actually), and there is nothing more to say than get out of Georgia; unless you really want/need to to stay in GA, in which case attempt to attend Emory (probably considered a semi-target...amazing school none the less). This is not to say there aren't any opportunities in GA, it's just that the culture (especially outside of ATL) is almost a rebuttal to Wall Street related finance. If you are still young I would without a doubt attempt to relocate to school that suits both your needs and your interest IB.

Aug 3, 2016

Look man, to be blunt, I do not think you are going to go work at GS, MS, JPM unless you have contacts. That being said, Stephens and SunTrust are very much in your range. Both banks are southern and carry a good name. I would say Stephens is a much stronger bank with a great reputation for its analyst program. Plus, I know it is very managable to go to hedge funds in Dalals/Houston out of Stephens. I wont list names, but I know it is done.

Good luck.

Flying Higher and Higher

Aug 3, 2016
FratStreetVA:

Look man, to be blunt, I do not think you are going to go work at GS, MS, JPM unless you have contacts. That being said, Stephens and SunTrust are very much in your range. Both banks are southern and carry a good name. I would say Stephens is a much stronger bank with a great reputation for its analyst program. Plus, I know it is very managable to go to hedge funds in Dalals/Houston out of Stephens. I wont list names, but I know it is done.

Good luck.

Could you expand on this by any chance? I'm at a northeast target but have southeast ties, and I kind of want to avoid NYC if possible.

How feasible is going from somewhere like SunTrust/Stephens to a Dallas hedge fund? I don't want to end up in Houston; I hate energy.

Aug 3, 2016

Although you seem to be a great transfer candidate, in my experience UGa is not a complete non-target by any means. Just to play devil's advocate, I'd look into the Corsair Society if I were you - great placement / alumni ties.

Aug 3, 2016

Thanks for all of your replies. I know where I go is not a complete non target, but it seems crazy to stay here when I have a chance to transfer to a target school. I love it here but hell, I'm trying to end up on the street, not in Texas.

Aug 3, 2016
SouthernHopeful:

Thanks for all of your replies. I know where I go is not a complete non target, but it seems crazy to stay here when I have a chance to transfer to a target school. I love it here but hell, I'm trying to end up on the street, not in Texas.

Transfer out. You have a great GPA and solid SAT's. As long as your extracurriculars are in order, you have a good chance at a target school.

Aug 3, 2016

Transfer, transfer, transfer. At least to Emory. It's not impossible to break in from there. The only other way is networking, but in your case, transferring seems to be the best method.

Rendish

Aug 3, 2016

This topic has been discussed repeatedly. Please do a search.

Aug 3, 2016

Probably less than you think. I would seriously consider the target if it's really up there (H/P/Y)

Aug 3, 2016

Chelsea, the answer is no.

There are targets, semi-targets, and nontargets. The ones listed are semis, well Emory and Vander might to be a target for some banks.

It depends on school prestige. There is no offical "target" list, just a set of schools that are known to have good bankers.

Aug 3, 2016

true - emory is probably a target for a SunTrust or BB&T and Vandy the same for a Jefferies or AG Edwards...

Aug 3, 2016

Why can't you get a 3.7 at Cornell?

I think you should go to Cornell and work your ass off so you CAN get a 3.7 at Cornell. You will be better off in the long-run, in my opinion too, if you go to Cornell. Whatever you start off doing is going to be hugely important, but in the end, the name on the degree is a large factor (not in qualifications, rather in who you are able to meet).

Aug 3, 2016

C) The Princeton sociology major with a 3.5. Sorry.

Aug 3, 2016
1000Talents:

C) The Princeton sociology major with a 3.5. Sorry.

lol I wish that wasn't funny because it's true, but it is.

Aug 3, 2016
1000Talents:

C) The Princeton sociology major with a 3.5. Sorry.

Haha

Aug 3, 2016
1000Talents:

C) The Princeton sociology major with a 3.5. Sorry.

SB for that gem...

Aug 3, 2016

bump

Aug 3, 2016

Submitting your resume at a firm's website is equivalent to dropping it into a black hole. No one will ever see it.

Aug 3, 2016

If you submit it online, people will see it. I have gotten plenty of interviews by BB and Boutiques by submitting online.

Aug 3, 2016

So when you say submitting online, are you talking about just applying through your school's career website or something, or are you talking about literally applying through a company's online application on their career page? If its the latter, everyone I have talked to says that these applications never even get looked at.... is this wrong?

Aug 3, 2016

I've recently got an offer from a BB by simply submitting online (I go to a non-target), so it can be done. Taking this route is sure to be much more difficult (i.e. more interviews, competition, etc..), but a solid resume will go a long way regardless of "how" it gets into the right hands....

Aug 3, 2016

It is the same as a non-target in the sense that you have to either go through alumni or the online recruiting system as opposed to attending a firm's feeder or target schools where you will have campus boxes and recruiters definitely looking at your resume as they are coming to that school looking for candidates. That said, if you have a strong resume and attend a school that is generally considered a target, or is at least recognized as a strong school, you will definitely not be dropping your resume into a black hole. If you attend a target, you chances are of course improved simply because people are coming to that school specifically to look at student resumes, but if you submit a strong resume it will still get looked at, and will still give you a shot at landing the interview - don't believe that because your school doesn't have a drop box you will automatically be dinged. Good luck.

Aug 3, 2016

what about the special programs at each college? For example, IBW at Indiana or the Honors program at UT Austin. Are these still considered semi-targets or is there a legit shot at IB from there?

Aug 3, 2016

the IBW is a target for a number of banks, just not all yet.

Aug 3, 2016

this topic has been covered over and over again on so many occasions, and each time its just as stupid and useless. if its really that important to make a distinction between target, semi-target, and quasi target, go ahead, waste your time, but dont waste the rest of the boards. use the search function.

Aug 3, 2016

Northwestern is a semi-target? or a target?... tough call i suppose. thoughts anyone?

Aug 3, 2016

Way too much time is wasted on this topic.

The easiest way is to look at the firms recruiting at the School...If all BB land up for recruitment..then it is a target...else Not !

However..every BB takes targets and non-targets.Hence anyone who has a good background (work experience & academic performance) and can network effectively has a good chance.

Aug 3, 2016

Assuming you're referring to undergrad: Notre Dame, Illinois, Michigan, Indiana, Texas, UCLA

Aug 3, 2016

Call tech, USC, CMC, Baruch (based on location), Fordham (location too), Wash U

Aug 3, 2016
moozic:

USC, CMC, Baruch (based on location), Fordham (location too)

haha

ahahaha

Aug 3, 2016

VA schools - U of Richmond, W&M, W&L all have a handful of analysts in good spots each year
Seen UGA and Wake Forest more than I expected.

Aug 3, 2016

Harvard Extension School

Aug 3, 2016

Check out Patriot League schools, some have good networks on the street. It's like the Ivy League's younger, alcoholic brother.

Aug 3, 2016

Georgetown

Aug 3, 2016

In order to place well into Wall Street you need to do specific things at these schools but: University of Wisconsin, Indiana University (I know it's been mentioned but really, they kill it), Illinois, OSU. I know these are all big ten schools. I promise I did not actually go to one of these schools. The thing is, Big Ten schools seem to be willing to help each other out, and all of those schools have stolen the Indiana IB club template and are doing much better for it. The only caveat here is that Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin place much better in Chicago than they do in NYC. Also, Indiana is the best of the bunch here but you'll need to get into their IB club.

edit: even though Indiana does better in Chicago than they do elsewhere, they also probably do better in NYC than the others.

Aug 3, 2016
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Aug 3, 2016