Truth about tuition and the value of education
I have been wondering about this for almost a decade now and I thought why not ask it on here. Maybe someone here has an idea.
So the question I carry around is:
if you pay CHF5000 for a 2 year masters program at ETH Zürich,
2000 Euro for a 2 year German program .....
And given that all you do is have some textbooks, study them hard, and get a grade for it. The textbooks are the same mostly all around the world.
I think questions that students typically ask or wonder about can be answered by any decent professor.
So.... what gives you really the extra edge when you pay 50000 dollars for a MSF at Berkeley?
Brand name, OCR, network, life experience...etc.
Because the universities have to justify the cost of their programs somehow, and they do that by building a network with firms so that they get you a job. It really has very little to do with what you actually learn.
Fantastic. That's what I thought. It's a great, fantastic, megalomanic ripoff.
Not really. You're just not paying for an education, you're paying for the University to vouch for you and provide a social network. Maybe it's a case of the tragedy of the commons, but any social system large enough must have a reputation test - WSO has one based on bananas and, now, certified users.
america, fVCK yeah
I get your point. It makes certainly sense for some.
But I wouldn't pay 10 times the money for 30% increase in job chances. That's just me, i guess.
Read this:
The Disposable Academic:
Why Doing a Phd is Often a Waste of Time
http://www.economist.com/node/17723223?story_id=17723223
Not a fair comparison since Euro schools are heavily subsidized. Also, realize that Berkeley is expensive, but it is also one of the best schools in the world, with students coming from all over to get in.
Schools in the US look expensive, but there are so many scholarships and grants, most people end up paying a lot less than the face value.
Subsidiaries. Correct. Scholarships. Correct.
But: what is your definition of best? Publication index? How does it correlate with quality of teaching? Funding available? Well, that is what we are just discussing. Brandname? That is just what the funding problem is about, right?
And Scholarships. It doesn't change the fact that I don't understand what the tuition is needed for. Whether some church guys or some foundation is paying for it, it is still a high tuition that could also be saved.
But yeah, the subsidization is an issue. Maybe that is why there is a difference.
But it doesn't explain why people still choose to spent 50k rather than 5k + a airline ticket to and from Germany.
This question is for Anthony and anyone with the experience to answer this:
For people who can work in the US, i.e. US Citizens or Permanent Residents, why not go do your MSF for little or no cost in Germany and come back and work in the U.S?
For example Goethe University in Frankfurt offers a Master's in Finance and it costs like 500 Euros a semester, and it is taught in English.
In the USA we have dirt cheap schools also. Lets not make it sound like every university in the USA is 50K a year. Many state schools are much cheaper and you can get all types of aid.
As for the reason not to go to Goethe University:
1) No alumni in the USA 2) No USA OCR 3) Much better European programs (LSF, Bocconi, LBS, SSE, etc) 3) MSF degree is not universally well known in the states so the degree along will not benefit you
I have also not look at the Goethe program in detail so it might have practical differences in classes and skills taught.
The MSF is an opportunity to get OCR again, add another network to your life and resume, improve your GPA and relocate or reposition yourself. Cost should play a factor in this decision, but it should not be a deciding factor. If you cannot spend a certain amount on the degree, simply work more or do not get it.
Berkeley might be 10x more expensive than Goethe, but I will guarantee that you will get your ROI with a Berkeley diploma.
Here is your question, in a different context.
Why pay 150K to get an MBA from Wharton when I could pay 10K and get an MBA from Phoenix Online? Both teach business classes and both will give me a piece of paper with MBA on it.
See how silly that question is?
MBA Programs work entirely different, which is why I did not mention them. But undergrad and master programs are basically jsut about studying and taking some extra-curricular activities.
And the benefits you listed are non-tangible. Namely, it is not the university that makes a difference, but the people that attend it. As you said: no alumni bla.
And I don't know. I have friends that visited all those places. Like some went to Berkeley, some to Harv, some to stanford or MIT, some to cambrridge, and even some to Bocconi.
And yes, the only difference was the fact that you had students that were generally more more ambitious, came from better backgrounds and were more socialable. THat's it. And that is not at all an asset of the school that it can provide. It might as well be another school.
So it's really all about brand. You can't buy a toothbrush for 20k , so you are not welcome to enter the club of the guys and gals that own 20k tooth brushes.
And that is about it.
And truth is, if you have a 3.5 at Goethe and a trackrecord in internships and extra-curriculars, you will as easily hit London as you will with you Berkeley degree. I think it is just that simple.
Dude, go to Goethe. Stop trying to convince everyone else or yourself.
I am sorry, but people from around the world are not dying to get into Goethe. They are at Berkeley. Your comparison is completely wrong since Berkeley doesn't even have an MSF. Also, undergrad and masters degrees are just as much about networking and alumni as they are about studying.
How do you think you are going to get those internships? Try reading this board a little and you will see how hard it is for a non target to get the internships that lead to a job. Maybe it is different in Europe. If it is, fine, but stop trying to make it seem like Goethe is better than US schools because it is cheaper.
Brand, alumni, reputation, historic placements, etc are all important. People know Berkeley, they respect that school, people are impressed. Berkeley has great recruitment, good historic placement, etc. Goethe does not.
If you want an MSF and want to work in Europe, I would suggest LSE, LBS, SSE, Bocconi, St Gallen, etc. Those are well know MSF programs in Europe. In the UK that have a ton of them. Goethe is one of the lesser known ones for sure.
Buy cheap, buy twice
Goethe will not place people in America or London, but their campus is in the heart of Frankfurt. DB Hq is within walking distance, and so are the ECB and the German Hqs of every major Bank.
So I'm pretty sure that they place well here in Frankfurt at least and maybe even in Zurich.
You know what, since I am in Frankfurt for my winter break, I am going to go check this place out myself.
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