Vacation as an Analyst?
Hey guys, I am about to begin working at a BB in their investment banking division as an analyst in a few months. I have a few questions I am hoping to get some clarity on even if its not with 100% accuracy.
- When is it generally okay to take your first vacation as an analyst?
- Is Christmas and/or New Years generally worked or a treated as a holiday?
- How far ahead heads up is a good idea to give your team when you are planning a vacation?
I realize I am getting a bit ahead of myself with these questions, but I just want some insight. Thanks!
Bump
There is no need to bump this. @SSits post was spot on. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. There is no "generally" so just see what your group is like once you're there for a few months.
I bumped before his reply. Thanks for the insight guys.
Didn't Luke Skywalker get found [drunk, possibly considerably older?] in Ireland ? The Force Awakens. Take a hint from him.
Standard Gen X director's outlook on leave for millenials that I've seen is: - Don't plan to take any time off for the first year - Certainly don't mention taking any time off for the first 6 - 9 months - If you've worked pretty doggedly in the initial period 6 - 9 month period, maybe ask politely if you can take a few days off
Notwithstanding that I'm Gen X, I am more sympathetic than this. Your bosses may also be more sympathetic. However, if you go in expecting the outlooks bulleted above, then you're in the safest position. If you see others taking leave without negative effects or your bosses indicate they are cool with you taking some leave, then you can ask.
SSits's outlook on this is generally good advice to follow. Really going to be team dependent. As a first year analyst I think I took a half day off in my first six months except for Christmas. Spent 3-4 days away from the office for Christmas (with laptop, had to put in 3-5 hours each day, had to come off the golf course with my future FIL to work on a MP one time).
My office was a mid-year bonus cycle. Not many first year analysts took vacation in between Christmas/New Years and bonus season, if at all beyond a day or two (can't remember). I took one day off in May for a family event and had to stay up late pulling comps on shitty hotel WiFi for over an hour (an exercise that would have taken the associate who asked me to complete this about 15 minutes because he was on the office network).
That being said, try your hardest to not miss big events in life - weddings, graduations, funerals, etc. At least make the effort to try to go. If something deal-related pops up and you can't go, that's fine, but not making the effort because you work in IB and "will be busy" is weak. You may get some shit for it but it will help you keep your sanity.
As far as vacation/days off go, I tried to mention it about 8-10 weeks out to my staffer, then repeat again about a month out, then mention to my teams 2-3 weeks out (sometimes more if my planned vacation would overlap with a proposed management meeting or other deal-related deadline).
I say this with hindsight being 20/20, and being pretty secure where I am now, but I would basically tell my boss to go fuck himself (well, not explicitly, but by taking the time off anyways) if he said I shouldn't go. Everyone in banking is replaceable for at least a few days.
I hope none of you would actually miss a family/close friend's wedding/funeral because of work... No job is worth that and you should never work at a place that has that type of culture.
Personally, I did not take any vacations my first 6 months on the job and I think that is fairly common. I take most of my vacations in short stints (3-4 day weekends) and I've never had any issues with getting them off even with short notice. As long as you get your shit done and you're fairly available (able to respond to emails/calls), you should have no issues. If you're going to take a week+ vacation, especially somewhere foreign, I'd give a couple of months verbal notice and continue to remind your team leading up to it.
It is highly group dependent. My group is lax: no face time, no office time on the weekend (work from home, though), reasonable vacation, etc. Other groups at my bank never get vacation, work 100 hours every week, and never leave before 10PM.
Good advice from SSits
Agree with above comments. It's mostly group dependent. I started working at a company over Christmas break and there was nobody there for almost two weeks. My group gives no hard time to first years if they want to take vacation; however, they are last in the pecking order.
In general August is pretty slow with a lot of MDs going on pre-school vacation to hang out with kids. Same goes for Christmas.
Telling you staffer a couple of months in advance is a good practice. Put it on a shared calendar as well. Then keep your deal team informed. Always good to be able to move your vacation around a bit. I had to move mine a couple of months back, cause it fell right in the middle of the deal. Got me some goodwill with VP and Associate.
What about if the absence is due to health reasons? I have to go to the hospital for 5 hours every 8 weeks because of a chronic condition. Would you advise mentioning it during the recruiting process?
No. Don't mention it during the recruiting process. It will only work against you.
This. Wait until after you secure the offer and sign then bring it up with HR or your staffer after you start. The can't discriminate against you for a medical condition/disability. Can you do your hospital visit on the weekends? If so, it might not be a problem at all. I would fully expect them to accommodate you as long as it doesn't impact your productivity.
I would like to know this also, I have a doctors appointment thats an hour long that I go to every week (I can probably arrange some form of weekend appointment if need be) but is it really bad if i just stay later one day and maybe go to that appointment on a lunch break? Assuming you even get a lunch break.
Unless you are working with complete assholes no one should give you hard time about medical conditions. Just be ready to cancel your appointment once in a while cause you are busy.
On vacations: I'd also say that it's not when you take a vacation that matters but for how long. Taking 2 days or a long weekend here and there shouldn't be a problem. if you plan to take two weeks off, then you might get some nasty looks from the staffer and your team. Plan on making everyone aware long in advance.
All this works with a caveat that if your deal is live your vacation is most likely screwed.
Are investment bankers not required to take two weekers? Most s&t analysts have to take two weeks consecutive leave
No.
Yes they are... this is called Mandatory Leave of Absence.
Definitely seems to be common in the UK. Two friends (BBs) and I (MM) are all required to take 2 weeks off per year. HR also want people to make full use of their annual leave where I'm going and I've heard others say similar about their banks. The American attitude towards vacations / time off is crazy.
You are required to do 2 weeks consecutive if you are in Sales & Trading or in Capital Markets (you can read emails, but you can't "make decisions"). I think with Banking, you have to do it if you are above a certain level (Directors and above), but it's very bank-specific.
Be realistic. Your first 6 months you really won't be able to take a vacation. It's just the nature of starting a new job. Depending on the situation, you may be able to get a day or two off here are there for important events. For example, when I was a summer intern years ago, I needed to take a day and a half off to attend a funeral. My boss was sympathetic and understood. Life happens - you can't expect to stop living because of work. That said, my staffers were pissed that I went 12 hours without checking my emails and despite knowing that I was at a funeral because because I could be reached. Same thing goes with weddings - you can offer to work in your downtime, but don't necessarily expect to. Funny story though, I had a boss who approved my time off to go to a wedding (two days - a half day Friday and Monday because of the travel) and then called me that Saturday afternoon demanding I come back that day because I was needed in the office that Monday and refused to back down despite giving me the Monday off. I worked for the company for nearly 6 months at the time and he flipped the fuck out when I told him he signed off on my two days for the wedding. Boy did I have hell to pay for it, but I had HR and the staffers on my side, so I didn't get too fucked by it. He was also the kind of guy who demanded people drop what they do and immediately answer him though, so go figure.
After the 6 Month Mark, just be reasonable, give notice and and plan things out ahead of time. I'd say 3 months when planning a trip unless it's either international or a longer block of time, so everyone is on the same page.
Thanks for the reply Frieds. My main concern is getting a few days off for Christmas. I am committed to the job and have no problems missing thanksgiving/Easter and stuff like that, but my family usually only gets together for Christmas so it is important to me. Ideally I would only be taking 3 days off including the 25th.
My advice is to fly in Friday night and fly back Monday night and see if you can work remotely while with family. Seeing that Monday's a federal holiday, I don't see why that shouldn't be too much of a problem. The problem with taking time off over Christmas is that you are a junior banker and many folks with families tend to travel between Christmas and New Years since the kids are off from school. Being the low man on the totem poll, that might be tough. I'd just wait and play it by ear though.
Do your job better than anyone else and take all the vacation you're entitled to. If you show up, do good work, don't complain, and people like you you'll get no pushback when asking about vacation. Usually analysts have to work holidays just because they're lowest as far as seniority goes but depending on the group you may get it off.
My view is that if you tell your boss you need to take __ day or days for a wedding and you get a shitstorm back, you should be looking no matter the level. You will have many jobs but and in banking specifically you are constantly under-appreciated. Your friend or family member will remember you being at their important life event which is worth the shit you may get for taking off.
As an analyst, on't lose sight that banking isn't your life, or who you are, it's your job. Those who are the most successful (in general) are those who remember that.
Cheers, and for those who argue with me on this, either you're not in the industry; so shut the fuck up, or you're the miserable kiss-ass l who never took off and wish you had..in that case consider me laughing at you when your blood starts to boil! :)
taking time during first year as an analyst is tough man ... if you nail your first year then you should get some PTO during year two. If you ask for PTO sooner than that it might appear that you can't hack it and burn out easily and will get you roasted during evaluations. this last part depends heavily on your boss. good luck.
If you do PE recruiting, you'll likely be taking several vacation days your first year. Especially if any interviews are in a different city and it takes several to land something.
You Americans are crazy. 3-4 weeks a year here in London, some Friday working from home. 2 weeks at Christmas and a couple over the summer are standard. Admittedly having to cancel when its deal time.
You have no idea how happy I am to hear that....I was reading above posts and I was like "fuck.....". Indeed, the Americans are crazy. Life is way too short not to take vacations.
Is it easy to take time off as first year in London?
I work at GS. In my group, we are asked to take 1 week of vacation every ~6 months and get 5 days of single vacation days to spread out over the year, which we can claim at any point, provided we give some heads up.
Take time off, otherwise you will burn out really fast, 100% guaranteed.
In my group people generally believe you shouldnt take time until the holidays (assuming a July/Aug start) and even then it should be short. After about a year you can take some time off in the summer.
It was put best by a former colleague: If you don't take any vacation time or if you take a week - no one will remember either way. After two years in the group, he's absolutely right.
At my firm (BB), HR told us we have to take 15 days a year. My staffer said 10 days is a more reasonable expectation for 1st year analysts. (I plan to take them later in the year after comp is finalized). I'm fine with 10 days, but it would be nice if they were actually serious about this policy. It is worse for them to say we must take x and then looking askance at people actually doing that.
Can only speak for my experience (city, bank, and group specific) but it's not nearly as bad as anyone is describing. Half the street usually doesn't work weekends/the whole weekend as a matter of policy, which has been well reported...
People get jammed up, but teams are always flexible around holidays. No one 'works' Xmas or NY/E, but you have a phone; it doesn't take much effort to just keep an eye on your e-mail, even during the holidays.
And more notice is better but target 4-6 weeks notice for significant time off. Obviously the less time you take off, the less notice you need to give.
Good luck!
~
I had a mate who interned in HK over the summer for the same firm as me (in London). He was telling me some of the mental hours they worked day to day, loads of all nighters (only one of my intern class did that, and it's was only because of his ineptitude), he was shocked when I said I had been getting out at 1-2am most days.
Crazy to hear how institutionalized this idea of it being looked at negatively to take holiday is. Definitely one thing I appreciate more about being in the UK, over here you are looked at weirdly if you DON'T take all your vacation days. Not just a banking thing either (even if its the most extreme), hear this negative attitude from a whole host of friends in various industries.
In terms of banking, I find it quite funny how serious people in IBD take themselves (maybe you have to to get through it?). Skipping weddings/funerals because you need to finish off some comps for a pitchbook? Fck me couldnt do that even once...
I found out vacation is viewed differently at certain shops the hard way. Currently an oil and gas engineer but recently interviewed for a IB position on an A&D team. Made it to the final rounds of interviews and ended up being told 1 of the 2 reasons that I wasn't picked for the job was because I asked about vacation. Needless to say I only asked because I have a summer trip already planned, so I was trying to get the idea if i needed to cancel it. (Yes, stupid I know) looking back I should have just said that. Either way, me even asking was used against me as a reason to not offer me the job. So tread lightly.
How unlikely is it to get a 6 days off during Thanksgiving in your first year? Thursday is Thanksgiving, Friday (PTO), Saturday, Sunday, Monday (PTO), Tuesday (PTO). What if you were willing to be the guy that manned the fort during Christmas?
Interested as well. What happen if you're willing to man the fort during Christmas? Good or bad?
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