What’s Harder? MBB or EB/BB

Wanted to get your guys’ thoughts on what would be harder to land? An offer from MBB for MC or BB/EB for IBD? I know the numbers vary from firm to firm and especially considering product/coverage, but a general Co census would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any input!

 

MBB are harder to land, especially for non-diversity males. Interviews conversion rates are very low and good luck if you’re not a top student from a top target. On the other hand, you if you’re well prepared and do it correctly from a good uni, you’ll have a good chance of landing an IB stint somewhere.

I think BBs and EBs are about the same

 

How? From a numbers standpoint, McKinsey likely hires ~1000 business analysts every year which is consistent with the data that provides which indicates that there are ~200,000 applicants and a 1-2% acceptance rate, probably another 500 for BCG and 500 for Bain, so you're looking at ~2,000 spots whereas each BB is going to hire ~200 for IB globally and each EB is ~50

So landing McKinsey from a numbers perspective is equivalent in difficulty to landing ANY BB not just top BBs

https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/consulting/how-many-are-taken-int…

 

honestly, why do people even do consulting? They work similar hours as bankers and make less money all in. Exit opps are mediocre too with it being very hard to land PE gigs. Why do consulting at all?

 

Not everyone wants to do PE dumb ass. Hours aren't the same either - not only are they shorter but they're more predictable (i.e. light Friday - Sunday).

Comp is a bit less yes but you develop a totally different skill set from banking that is more advantageous for other career paths (startups, VC, F500 strategy, founding) than cranking away nonsense in Excel and setting up data rooms

 

Is it actually good for strategy/VC/startup though? It seems to me that all they do is google stuff and make fancy slides.

 

As a former Consultant, can tell you my quality of life was 5x what it is now.

Sure in IB you get paid more and the road to PE is a lot more visible, but the ability to physically travel to your clients (i was in financial services, so often FIGs in major cities like Chicago, NYC, Boston, Houston) get all your meals paid (top restaurants in every city), rack up hotel and airline points is SEVERELY underrated.

Plus, most firms allow you to alternative travel on the weekend, where instead of flying back to your home city, you can go anywhere else you want domestically (some restrictions apply, but varies on firm).

 

i'm a MBB consultant (2+ years) and can say i partially agree w/ and understand your question. I wouldn't defend consulting as hard as some of the responses below. Work/life balance is just a sales pitch. I find that with travel, my life is super unpredictable, i have no routine, and my "hours" are just as bad if not worse than a typical PE/IB job. I'd probably rather work a couple more hours per week if it meant a more standard routine and lifestyle, versus living out of a suitcase, changing climates, getting delayed at the airport on thursday night and getting home at 2 AM.

Agreed on pay being slightly worse. I will say you do learn a good broad-based skillset, and learn to "think like a consultant", which can be valuable and is sought after in many other roles you'd pursue later on. I would say consulting attracts certain specific personalities, and you will know if you belong in the clique very quickly after joining.

 

out of curiosity what type of personalities suit consulting?

 

Maybe because not everyone wants to work finance? Consulting is more transferable for corporate gigs.

 

For summer analyst, MBB is definitely harder, if only because there are far fewer roles (smaller analyst classes / fewer firms / SA isn't as much of a pipeline).

FT, I know significantly more people that were able to break into MBB via the FT process than GS/MS/JPM/PJT/EVR combined - but that might just be my school

 

Sounds right to me. That's because MBB's hiring is almost entirely done from a select number of target schools, vs banking which will take plenty of people from other schools as well. Banking casts a wider net of schools so it's a bit less elitist in that sense. So if you go to a target, a larger proportion of MBB's hiring is done on your campus.

 

I mean this is comparing apples to oranges..

For banking the bulk of spots available in their talent pipeline are via their intern program and in MBB/tier 2 the bulk of spots available are via FT recruiting. Of course it's going to be easier to get through a recruiting process with more spots available vis-a-vis not.

Also, just structurally MBB is harder at the undergrad level. Most consulting firms have a diamond structure with the bulk of hires coming in through their MBA or advanced degree channels rather than undergrad. So at undergrad, most top consulting firms have very little relative headcount vs banks. Because of this structural difference, consulting firms virtually have to restrict themselves to core schools - whereas banks can afford to have a more diverse class. Even with sticking to core schools there are still probably more finance spots than consulting spots via OCR so competition (i.e. how well you stack at a target and your performance on cases) is rife.

 
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I was successful in the recruiting process for both top BB IB (MS/GS) and MBB, so I have a fairly good understanding of both.

Wall Street Oasis is first and foremost a website for prospective in investment banking, so I'm sure people on this forum are biased towards IB. The reality is that consulting is a more competitive and challenging process (both in terms of lower acceptance rate, and more challenging interviews since you can't just memorize your way through it). Case interviews are obviously tough, but that's not all. Look up the McKinsey PEI -- your behavioral is literally one question you answer for 15 minutes, and the interviewer will grill every decision you make in your story. Banking technicals aren't trivial, but it's a matter of memorizing accounting statements and knowing some basic transactions. Not really a matter of intellectual rigor (not to say it's useless, just a very different process).

While I worked at an MBB, that is not because the role was "harder to land" in my eyes.. The work was broader and more interesting to me and I could still do financial modeling and PE deals as I wanted. I could also exit to PE if I chose. To be honest, MBB and top BB roles right out of school mean you'll have a good career ahead. A bit of extra money here and there doesn't really make a difference for your first job out of school. Also, for people graduating now, bonuses for many are about to be slashed, so banking doesn't really even make more than consulting for the next 2 graduating classes.

I saw someone asking what the point of consulting is if it pays less. First, the hours are substantially better -- they're done by 11pm at the very, very latest if you're on a tough case. All nighters are basically unheard of. Consulting does pay less than top IB roles, no question. However, MBB consultants get weekends off, much better and supportive culture, sponsored MBA's where they help us through the application process and pay for our preparation, first-class flights on just about every trip (at least at BCG), and literally the best healthcare I've ever seen. When we leave, we get "search time" which is a few months where we are paid our full salary do nothing but look for our exit opportunity, entirely stress free (at all 3 firms I believe).

I'm not saying that consulting is better than banking. That depends on the person. Consulting was a better choice for me, which is subjective, and a more competitive process than banking, which is objective.

 

what was a distinguishing factor job-wise that made you choose consulting over IB?

I had a boutique IB internship during my freshman, a strategy at a big 4 during sophomore, and going to a BB this summer (but virtual).. so I won't really know if I'll truly enjoy IB for FT due to the virtual format, but based on my prior internships, i felt a lot more intellectually engaged during my time at the strategy internship over IB, and overall enjoyed it more. however, my IB internship was during my freshman year so probably not as good a representation for a ft ib analyst at a BB/MM/EB.

 

I wanted to keep learning, and about a lot of different things. Modelling, growth strategy, launching a product, etc and all in whatever industries I want. Makes sure that I keep on learning a ton. Some of my older friends in banking described their experience as learning a ton at first, but after the first ~6-9 months, their growth bottomed out.

It's also so cool to have consistent C-Suite exposure at F500 companies as a 22 year old. Culture wasn't the main focus, but it was also a huge plus for me.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply. Obviously you are very knowledgeable about the subject, so just wondering if you have any anecdotal evidence of ppl moving from finance (IB/HF) to MBB? Assuming you would need B-school as a pivot, or do MBB not recruit post-MBA?

Also, wondering what the most common exits are other than PE/Corp Dev?

 

MBB does recruit post-MBA (and for McKinsey and BCG, that's actually the majority of their hires).

IB/HF --> MBB is very common. I know undergrads that did it after getting top banking/HF internships and converting those to FT offers, but deciding they'd rather do consulting (this is actually a very common practice). Plenty of people work in IB, do an MBA, and then come to MBB. It's definitely possible to do IB after college for two years or so and then move to MBB without an MBA, I just don't personally know someone who has done it.

 

how is the MBB process these days, is it extremely structured with a certain amount of on campus interviews selected and then superdays at the preferred site location if you pass the on-campus round? and like if you choose some regional location preference vs. NYC/SF, it’s easier to get a potential interview slot? I remember hearing that it’s impossible to really network your way into a role unlike in banking where it’s possible. always like to see how the sausage is made on the backend.

 

Yes that generally sounds correct. Bain tends to be the only one that really has an emphasis on networking. McKinsey and BCG are a bit more meritocratic. For location preference, there are basically three national competitive hubs for MBB: NYC, SF, and Chicago.

Outside of these, the offices have way few less applicants, but it doesn't really matter because they are looking for way fewer people generally speaking. At least at my MBB though, we hire everyone who meets the bar rather than having a maximum number of spots.

 

EB interviews tend to be harder and more unpredictable than BBs, so may be more comparable to the difficulty of MBB recruiting than the general IB process.

 

Do not completely agree but YES, IB technicals can be case studies, can be model building, can be open ended questions, all the things; and most of the time you can't memorize your way through even the most basic stuff--you at least have to understand the relationship between each moving part.

Based off personal experience I'd say MBB and EB interviews share quite some similarities, but because IB is relatively more of a mile deep inch wide profession I reckon there's not much big picture thinking type of tests involved compare to that of MBBs'.

 

I think the difficulty of MBB/EB/BB is a function of each individuals relative strengths. Its difficult to claim one is harder than the other.

 

Disclaimer: can speak for Europe only.

IB and Consulting, for 90% of candidates, attract people with different interests / career perspectives, so it is quite difficult to decide which job is harder to land, but here are few considerations: 1. The few people I know who interviewed for both roles found consulting job easier to land (most of them went to consulting because they did not make it to banking). This can be due to the fact that in Europe you apply for consulting in your home country (FR/ITA/GER) and obv the competition is lower, while for IB, people tend to compete with peers from Europe/some US/Asia. 2. It is not necessarily true tho than consulting interview are always harder as stated above, at least in Europe, even if IB recruits from Spring weeks too (so no real interview) and certain BBs interview process is not technical at all (read it: ridiculous) 3. Consulting tends to attract a more diverse base of candidates, which means less need to run diversity recruiting process. To be clear. Consulting attracts, for 50 spots, 40 yellow, 20 orange, 20 black, 20 white. No real need for diverse recruiting. IB attracts for 50 spots 70 yellow, 10 orange, 5 black and 5 white. Need to run diverse recruiting and "pre-allocate" slots across the various colors, which make it more difficult.

Imo, it is extremely complex to generalize and say which process is more competitive/difficult, because it is quite firm specific and the candidate base is quite different.

 

Found the same to be true in UK as well. At my target (oxbridge) consulting is usually what people go for when they couldn’t make it into IB, or didn’t want to put the effort in to learn technicals.

 

Also idk if this is a UK only thing but the LinkedIn “incoming business analysts” are just fucking weird.

Like stop posting your almost totally useless motivational stories and telling people to “DM if you want me to send you my guide on how I got into McKinsey”... intentions might be good but it’s super cringy and comes off as egotistical

 

Consulting is generally back up for IB because recruitment for consulting happens later in the recruitment than IB. It can’t happen the other way around.

 

MBB is definitely harder for non-diversity, but if you're a diversity I think they're both pretty chill

 

At my non target state school, the top 2-3 in the b-school get PJT, JP Morgan, Moelis (these type of placements have happened every year for some time now). I've never came across anyone who got into MBB. A bit hard to tell exactly what that means tho.

Array
 

Just finished my MBA at a top b-school and want to shed some light on the Associate process because it looks like it's almost completely the opposite... Btw this is London only so might be different.

Anyway, my class of c.500: almost everyone who tried got a consulting gig (most of them being MBB). And this is despite most of sponsored ex-consultants going back to their firm. MBB has offices in every single country under the sun.

On the other hand, probably no more than 30 people ended up in a BB. You are underestimating how tough it is to get a job in banking these days.

 

This might have to do with banking being far less popular than consulting at the MBA level. In my experience, there just aren’t a lot of people nowadays who have banking as their end goal. Even people I know who talk about it post-MBA (I’m at the age where people are going back to school and starting to think about the long game) just want to do 2-3 associate years to pay off loans, save some cash, and then move on.

 

True to both points. Post-MBA associate retention is very low in most banks (that's exactly why JPM London killed their MBA program 4-5 years ago). It's still by far the highest paying job out of b-school so lot of people stay a year to pay off debt and leave.

Still a lot of people applied. It's just there are very few spots available...

 

As a HYPSM graduate, I felt like MBB was way easier. I didn't have to network at all for MBB first rounds as opposed to other roles.

 

Also at HYPSM. MBB is much easier than EB or BB for students at top schools with a 3.7+ (3.5+ for STEM). You’re basically guaranteed an interview if you have a decent GPA at a good school. The MBB interviews themselves are also easier imo. There are few specific technical questions, meaning it’s easier to just BS the answers and cases.

EBs and BBs don’t screen for just school and GPA, so it’s much harder to get the initial interview. There are a ton of pet schools like Stern, Ross, UVA, and etc. so there’s more real competition for interview spots. IB interviews are also a lot more technical and “you either know it or you don’t” (financial statements, DCF, LBO).

If you don’t go to a target and/or have a low GPA, then yeah MBB is pretty damn hard.

 

I'm sorry, also at HYPSM and I'm creating an account just to reply to this. That's just not the case. If you have a 3.7+ at a target, yes you'll likely get the interview, but the application:offer ratio is below 3% at all of HYPSM.

And in terms of determining what's harder, getting an interview at an EB or BB might be tough, but the questions are definitely easier since you know precisely what to memorize. The interview itself at MBB tests actual intellectual capacity and critical thinking.

 

Tough to say. EB/BB recruiting is more of a several months long networking ironman with a long AF memorization test at the end while MBB is less networking and more about raw brain power for casing.

Higher stats cutoffs (GMAT, SAT, GPA) for MBB for MBA recruiting and I think in every program (target or not) has a way bigger pool of students gunning for MBB. The traveling lifestyle and better hours of MBB appeal to women much more and doubles the candidate pool vs EB/BB.

But the caveat IMO is more interest generated in MBB makes comp less competitive; bigger candidate pool means more new hires each year for MBB vs EB/BB and therefore easier to manage turnover.
Lower fees (long term seemingly never-ending engagements vs several fat M&A transactions fees every year) + higher headcount in MBB = lower comp.

 

Just FYI, 'long term seemingly never-ending engagements' are not the norm at MBB. A traditional 'bread and butter' strategy engagement lasts maybe 8-12 weeks, with variation on either side depending on how much hand-holding the client requires. That said, all three firms have also started to get more into longer term transformation-type work which tends to generate much longer engagements.

All three firms (but especially McK and Bain) also do a significant amount of PE DD work which is obviously much shorter term.

 

Consulting is much more competitive due to large pool but fewer interview slots. In terms of IB, we have about 30 something people interested each year. All household name BB and EB recruit on campus and collectively give over 50 interview slots. Thus, as I said, if you have pulse and can talk, you can get interview. Further judging by the number of people we sent to IB on employment report(30+), I can also say everyone seems to at least walk away with an offer .

 

AUS answer:

It depends. They often require different skillsets when you get interviewed, case study vs technicals. In terms of MBB and IBD, if you have a finance major you would tend to have a better chance in IBD given that you have already ticked the boxes. On the other hand, MBB is more broad with its background selection and I've seen Philosophy majors get a role there.

tl;dr depends on your major and your experiences

 

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