Where the CFA® can and can't help you?
As it goes for industries I'm curious as to what others think about the CFA® and how much it can help having at least one level done assuming you already have a decent network. So if you could add any insight for those outside of AM of the value of the CFA® that would be much appreciated.
Heres the list of industries I had in mind to consider of whether or not it would help: IB, PE, HF, VC, AM, S&T, ER, & PWM. If there's any industry I left out that the CFA® would help please comment on here.
Completing a level shows you're serious otherwise it doesn't mean much.
I don't think you quite got the grasp of what I was asking. Basically I'm saying "In your industry does the having some or all CFA levels help or not at all (upward mobility related or trying to get in at entry level)?' The CFA or not sentence you put is somewhat misleading. Only about 20 percent of those who start pass all 3 levels. Those who have lv 1 or 2 usually don't put CFA at the end of their name on linkedin or a resume.
It's also literally not allowed to put the CFA designation on your LinkedIn/resume if you haven't passed all three levels.
can speak for PWM: short answer is no.
have a few friends in PE, some have it, some don't. none of them have said it helps/hurts their mobility.
I can agree to that because for the most part it isn't as necessary. Now for the CFP I know it's somewhat expected for you to eventually have it at the top PWM companies right? According to the WSJ only 2% of CFPs have the CFA. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB118384639855460121
it's more common, sure, but it's not a requirement because you can't get it (to my knowledge) unless you're already in the industry
Just passed L1? No one will really care. Could help with ER or entry level buy-side, but they'll definitely expect you to finished the program.
"Those who have lv 1 or 2 usually don't put CFA at the end of their name on linkedin or a resume."
Those who have L1 or L2 and put CFA on their CV will be laughed out of the office, never get a call back, have their resume sent to Dealbreaker to be mocked, kicked out of the CFA program, and will have trouble getting a job at the Mutual Fund Store.
Heard the opposite quite a few times on the boards that anything past Lv.1 is a waste. Doubt anyone would put full CFA charterholder on their CV rather than CFA Lv.1 Passed.
No wonder you got 0 banana points.
Not helpful/not that impactful (imo): IBD, S&T, VC, PE Helpful/has some impact: ER, HF, AM, PWM (I would think, but seems thebrofessor has experience that claims otherwise> I think it'd be useful as a marketing tool?)
EDIT: this may be slightly unrelated, but nobody wants another CFA thread and this is the most recent one
I registered for the December Level 1 in March of this past year since I wasn't sure what my career interests were. After my SA, I received a FT offer in the m&a group of my bank and promptly decided to say "screw it" after 1) it being a pretty tough summer and 2) It seemed like nearly all the analysts (and prior analysts) have gone the ib/pe/bschool route. My senior year classes are a joke and although I have been enjoying the relaxation, I feel like I should sack up and take the test.
At the same time, a lot of the analysts I worked with said it would be much more valuable to take the GMAT a few times to prepare for bschool since the CFA is not as prevalent in m&a/pe roles. I'd tend to agree with them in that I don't want to waste time studying for the CFA in 3 months if my ability to pass isn't as great as if I started earlier.
In other words, where do I draw the line between giving up and making a career conscious decision?
Honestly, I think taking starting the CFA level 1 would be good if you're into the ER, AM, HF, etc. route. On top of this you can always take the GMAT whenever and since I'm assuming you're 21-22 it may or may not be such a good idea to take the GMAT and have your score possibly expire because you want to work longer.
I had a very similar problem. Registered in march and then I was not sure if I should spend my time taking it.
I've made up my mind n I will be taking it. my main reason: I lack focus, and this will help me focus; 300 hours of help. lol Also, I freaking pay +1.2 grand so I better fcking take it lol.
Someone on WSO told me to take CFA level 1 just so that I can say level 2 candidate on resume. He said that he had low GPA, non target and no experience but passing CFA lv.1 got him interviews.
Candidate means you're enrolled for the next exam. Otherwise, just state that you passed L1 exam.
For the CFA
If you have past all three levels: First Last, CFA If you have only past level 1 or 2 and have signed up for the next level: Level X CFA Candidate If you have only past level 1 or 2 and have NOT signed up for the next level: Passed Level X CFA
Technically that is how they want it identified. The society is working hard to make their credential/charter have greater value in the financial industry. Instead of focusing on where specifically it will help you with now, I suggest if you have the time and money to just go ahead and work towards it. A Masters degree will help significantly too.
I know that this is a very far reach but can you pass all 3 levels and then put "awaiting CFA charter accreditation" or simply "passed all 3 levels" until you get the 4 years of experience because honestly I think I'm going to go ahead and start it my senior year. I wouldn't put CFA at the end of my name in this situation. I would have a lot more time to do the CFA and heck, if I can pass it in the winter and then do lv 2 the summer I graduate it would be REALLY GOOD.
Stick with "Passed Level 3 CFA" as it provides the same message without the possibility of confusion. Anyone who is awaiting their charter most likely already has work experience and would just wait and upon approval place CFA after their name.
Preach.
errr.. or maybe CFA institute wants to make more $$ to ensure you take all three levels before you say you passed any of it.....??
If you have past all three levels: First Last, CFA*
*And have received the Charter
It definitely depends on where you are in your career experience wise and the field.
Holding experience equal, CFA levels are most applicable in Equity Research and Asset Management. Level 1 puts you on par with a good UG Finance degree. So if you are non-UG Finance, it will help. Not until you pass L2 does it start to take on a different form. The assumption is then that you will eventually complete the exams and earn the charter.
Can't speak for most other fields, but IB is definitely less. Doesn't seem to be very applicable or widely pursued.
Bottom Line: Experience matters the most, period. Progress shows intent and interest, as well as ability to learn, but the exams prove you can learn material and do end-of-chapter questions, nothing more.
Disclosure: Passed 1 and 2, will be taking Level 3 in June 2016.
Based upon my experience I would say:
IB - marginally helpful. It may hurt you though if you are junior and your seniors get the impression you are trying to jump to the buy side. PE - marginally helpful. HF - helpful depending upon the HF's strategy. VC - no benefit. AM - very, very helpful. Near mandatory at some firms. Having the designation will usually get you interviews as long as you have decent experience. S&T - helpful, but not required by any means. ER - very helpful. Again, having the designation will usually get you interviews. PWM - helpful, though the CFP is more common.
For what it's worth, investing the time to pass the CFA exams when you are junior (i.e. 0-4 years of experience) is a better use of your time then going home and pounding beers or watching tv, which a lot of my peers did when I first started in the industry.
Everything is relative, but I would argue that outside of Asset Management the added value of carrying the CFA desigation on your business card is overestimated. Especially if you take into account the time you'll spend on obtaining it.
Specifically for S&T, it really doesn't make sense. It won't land you an interview and it won't give you any insights/knowledge that would make you better at doing your job. If it's knowledge you're after, why not buy Hull/Taleb/Geman/etc at a fraction of the cost and spend your time reading those.
I'm gonna have to second this.
such a great reply. agreed that pounding beers and playing madden with the good ol boys is def not worth the time. invest yourself!
..
A CFA title with work experience helps out a lot if you're looking into equity research or Asset Management. (They usually have a job posting for experienced hires with "CFA designation preferred")
Also, for Lv.1 I studied for only about three weeks or so after graduation and passed. If you're a finance/accounting major, it will just be another overall review of the basics.
There's a lot that's already been said about the CFA but I'd like to make a couple additional points.
1) The CFA is much cheaper than an MBA. One may make more sense than the other depending on what you plan on doing afterwards/during. As others have pointed out, if you plan on going to PE or VC then the CFA probably isn't going to help you. An MBA at a target school would be much better. If you aren't planning on going into those areas then maybe the CFA makes more sense as a cheaper alternative but one that is still very much respected.
2) The CFA can make just as much sense as an MBA, sometimes more, if you plan on going into AM, ER, or potentially even HF. The two most common job descriptions for a CFA charter holder are "Research Analyst" and "Portfolio Manager". It's very common to see CFA charter holders in AM and ER and as some individuals have already pointed out, some shops require or at least strongly prefer the CFA. Plus, the CFA Institute can serve as another great source of networking. There is a job board available to CFA charters and many of those postings can at times be for desirable spots.
Yeah I was thinking of starting the CFA lv 1 my senior year. When you really think about altogether it costs only a few thousand bucks versus well north of 100k for top mba programs and probably 30-50k for less desirable mba's that may or may not help you for PE, HF, IBD, etc.
I've heard good things about joining your local CFA Society. I've only passed Level I thus far so I'm just now starting to look for roles outside of the Ops life. I'm hoping it'll help me land some interviews but outside of that I know that the rest is on me with the prep work/networking. Some of the sections suck but honestly I learned more in the ~4 months I studied for the exam than I did in undergrad.
This is a very good point. I have both a MBA and CFA and in my opinion only really needed the CFA to move up in investment management. I had my own personal reasons for getting my MBA, but I don't think the ROI was good.
This is absolutely true. The MBA is primarily designed to train managers. The CFA is designed to train and credential financial decision makers. While there is some overlap between the two, they are designed to serve different purposes.
This may be somewhat of a personal question if you'd like to pm me specifics that would be great but I'm curious what the total comp is for entry-level at a top AM like BlackRock, allianz, etc. and the hours involved. I know portfolio managers make a great living but there really isn't enough reliable comp data for AM entry-level on glassdoor.
Assuming you're talking about the research department, all-in comp would look something like:
Pre-MBA (0-4 years experience): $80-140 Post-MBA (0-2 years post MBA): $180-300
Nice. i'm assuming you meant 80k starting and 140k after 4 years? Or was it 80k base but plus bonus is 140k? Honestly I would think that they may or not have a lot of jobs open but there's a local AM shop in town that is pretty good. Heck, if I made 75k starting there that would be pretty good considering the cost of living is 7% less than the national average over here.
The range I was providing is all in compensation. Personally my base was 62.5 my first year with a bonus of 25k. I made 120-125k total my 4th year but I was starting to be underpaid then. Most 4th year people are making closer to 130-145.
As far as hours I worked 55-65 hours per week pre MBA. It's a little harder to classify now because I travel a lot. I might only be "working" for a few hours a day when I'm meeting management teams but I go back to the hotel and work there. I work about 60 hours per week when I'm only in the office.
Also, I've seen a lot of job descriptions within Big 4's CF/TAS services mentionning that working towards the CFA qualification is a real plus to your application.
It was for European offices tho, I guess it is less emphasized in the US.
It is what you do with the knowledge that counts. Passing level II is the teeth, but each level is it's own part of the journey. However, getting the charter ultimately carries the weight. I see level 1 as more about kicking the tires. I think securities analysis and portfolio management are the applications of this expertise.
I don't feel like reading all the comments, so forgive me if this has already been addressed. From what I've heard it used to be a serious career killer if you were on the sell-side and took levels but didn't pass. iE so many fails = will never be a senior analyst at that firm.
In terms of career advancement, it depends. There are countless people with/without CFA's and mba's. Some have both, some neither. I've completed each exam - what I will tell you is that the interviews I was able to secure have gotten better. I'm talking state school, not good network, straight submitting apps.
IE investment analyst role at a local ria with 2bln aum after passing L1.
In short, it can't hurt. But it's a shit load of time and effort. Anyone who says it doesn't affect everything isn't going hard enough
Yeah the 300 hours most who pass take to prepare is 10hrs for 30 weeks. So basically for close to 7 months you are taking out 2-3 rounds of golf a week. Or essentially around a full day's work. Obviously this varies because some work 16-18 hrs a day in IB or 7-9hrs a day in PWM for some of those that have already been really successful and in the business 10-20yrs.
Personally, I'm not aware of that many people who stretch the study process out over 30 weeks. I could be wrong though. Having passed levels 1 and 2 and sitting for 3 next June, my concern would be that by the time you get to the exam you would forget what you were reading when you started. I usually start at the beginning of February (I set up a study plan for 16 weeks) and spend 15-20 hours a week. For me when I took level 1 and 2, it was hard enough to fully remember what I was reading in February by the time I got to the exam. I would think it would be even worse if you were to start 6-7 months before the exam. Although, I guess if you can't spend 20 hours a week on it then you may just have to.
Speaking on behalf of PWM, CFA looks good, but definitely not a requisite nor is it looked highly/poorly upon. It shows you're bright and can take tests, that's it. It doens't make one a better producer. I will say that should anyone question your ability to understand finance/economics, you can give them the middle finger because the CFA Program is a bitch and a half and it shows you know something. Otherwise, i'd say it's more common in ER with a little in AM, every other group you named views it as 'ehhh.'
Yeah I see where you're coming from. The CFA isn't really all that practical for someone in a FA program at like a ML or MS. I intend on going into a traditional AM like fidelity, BlackRock, etc or maybe a BB investment management group.
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