So guys and girls,
I recently received a couple of job offers in three different cities: SF, Chicago, and NYC. I have never lived in any of those cities and therefore was wondering if you guys can help me decide where I should live. I don't know anyone in both SF and Chicago but I have a lot of friends in NYC. I like SF b/c I am a big fan of their climate but also of it's laid-back vibe, and Chicago because of its lower cost of living.
Any opinions/advice?
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Assuming all other things are equal, I'd take the Chicago offer. Dirt cheap cost of living and it's still a major finance hub.
Are you willing to pay a premium for not dealing with snow? -> SF
Are you a cheap jew? -> Chicago
I cant really think of any reasons to live in nyc...
I'll take snow over hippie/liberal/communists any day.
im not sure you know what socialism means....wikipedia much?
high five
Are you a cheap jew? -> Chicago
lol. You tell me why there are a ton of more Jews living in nyc.
did you see what California passed??? they will rape you (money wise)
well, I am not sure I am in the "wealthiest of citizens" bracket.
Most of my family and friends are on the east coast - so if I am in NYC, most of my family and friends are around/within commuting distances. I don't know anyone in Chicago or SF - so for those of you who live/have lived in those cities, how easy is it to make friends? Also, SF has the bay, napa, and tahoe all within driving distances - what does Chicago offer otherwise than it being relatively cheaper?
Chicago. Cost of living, number one factor.
Fuck cost of living man. You are here to live a life, not to pinch pennies. If you want to freeze your dick off on a daily basis, yeah, go to Chicago. If you want quality of life, however, I would pick either SF or NYC. Again, nothing against Chicago - its is a beautiful city, but it is so cold. So cold. SF has the sports teams, the bars and clubs, the weather, the bay, tahoe, etc etc. It is a fantastic city. Cannot comment on NYC, as I have never been there. But it is a cultural and financial hub and you will have loads of things to do. Are you an East Coast or West Coast guy? Pick between NYC and SF.
SF has earthquakes and if you do anything related to the market, have fun waking up for work in the middle of the night. Chicago sounds pretty good to me.
You don't know the true beauty of NYC. It is the cosmopolitan feel. I used to feel like dead when living in other major cities but after came to nyc, I revived in the first very minute. Chicago, one word, provincial.
+1 legit. I wouldn't mind being a dumpster diver aka freegan to live in the city I dream of. That is what youth all about. Cost of living, the kind of shit you should only care about when you are ready to start a family.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Maybe you can actually take one quick visit before proclaiming it's the right spot to settle down? Just a thought.
NYC is a diverse expensive dump. With garbage, dog poop, and homeless people everywhere. Also the air is about as clean as an exhaust pipe, and the probability of getting punched in the face or getting run over by a bus while crossing the street is noticeably greater than zero.
You're life must be absolutely miserable if this is all you have to say about NYC. Personally I'm in NYC and loving it. Couldn't see myself living anywhere else (until I get a family maybe).
this guy is right. SF dude. NY is fun - cultural etc. chicago - cold, lots of night life but neither of these places stand up to the quality of life in the bay area.
-lived in all 3 cities...currently in chicago :( - wish i was back in SF
We can't really assume ceteris paribus, so can you tell us which jobs are in which city?
They are life science consulting positions. I could live in any of these cities for a couple of the companies since they have offices in all three locations.
I think you had just answered you own question there. South San Francisco is the biotech hub of the US. All your large life sciences firms are either headquartered in the Bay Area or have substantial presence there. This will save you a ton of headache and traveling on shitty airlines.
My suggestion would be on SF, as it will be better for life sciences careers. SF have its own issues as it is a nanny city that regulates and restricts everything. It also comes with its own charm as well. Strongly suggest you go out and visit SF to get a better feel of the city.
Wish you the best of luck and always take chances in life to experience something new.
I'd pick based on the job, honestly. You are only likely to be working at your first job ~2 years.
If it's IBD, it really doesn't matter where you live - you'll be in the office 90+ hours per week.
This, seriously...
Why is everyone here so anti-NYC? I'm guessing because you guys are always in the office and never have time to actually enjoy the city?
I've never lived in Chicago or SF, but the conclusion I've come to from talking to other people is that NYC is hands-down the best city in the US to live in if you're young and single. There's more shit to do here than anywhere else.
And it's not even like Chicago and SF are that much cheaper (again, this is just based on what I've heard. correct me if I'm wrong).
SF not that much cheaper than NYC. Chicago is most definitely cheaper- I'd go as far as saying your rent will be about 50% of what it will be in NYC (on average). As was said below, you can find a solid studio for just around $1000-$1200 a month, and probably pay around $800/person for a 2 bedroom with a roommate. I wouldn't take SF- much less of a 'fun' place to be just after college. Less excitement, you need a car, it is a really different feel. NYC and Chicago are both great places to be with tons of college grads. NYC obviously more expensive but also more going on. In terms of weather, both are cold and probably not that different- Chicago gets a lake effect and can feel pretty cold in the winter with the wind, but you certainly aren't going to a 'warm place' or a 'cold place.' Weather pretty similar.
To sum up
NYC- lots happening, expensive as hell Chicago- good amount happening, dirt cheap (relatively speaking) SF- not much happening, expensive, but good weather
Where in la? Just curious
hollywood, downtown, venice beach, all over.
I have been to all three cities whether where I am currently, work, or vacation. .... But NYC is the only one true city. You may not understand it, but if you spend three days in those three cities you will see why. NYC is always buzzing and busy. Now the downside to that is you pay big for it in the piggy bank.
That said pick on job as that is where you spend time and develop your career. Not necessarily where you live
Only go to NYC during shopping seasons, thanks to the cheap greenback and relatively low (?) sales taxs. I'm kid in a candy store. Btw, agree with Bearearns. It's more of a career than location choice.
If you're into outdoors stuff, definitely choose SF. Its fairly easy to meet new people, almost all young people are transplants (mostly tech), so if you dont know anyone you'll probably move into a apt w/ randoms from craigslist who are also all young transplants.
Also I wouldn't make a decision only based on climate, BUT I grew up in chicago and now hate both the winter (too fucking cold) and the summer (too fucking humid).
Even though the giants just won the world series and the 49ers are doing well, I'd still say Chicago is a more sports-centric city.
...and earthquakes arent really a big issue. Agree with the nightlife though, SF can be kinda dead early in the week, and things do wrap up early.
I should clarify - I am in my late 20's and am switching jobs; therefore, I would not want to have roommates. I am leaning towards SF but having lived most of my life within the East Coast, it's a bit daunting to think I have to pack up all my belongings and moving all the way across the country.
Having just recently moved to Chicago for school, I am amazed at the cleanliness of the city as well as the opportunities within the financial industry. With that said, I have only been to NYC and San Fran for short periods of time so no advice from me on whether or not to live there. Chicago is great though.
being a chicago native, id say chicago >>>>>>> ny / sf. HOWEVER, if you plan on living there for the long run, get ready for some massive tax increases....cook county and illinois have one of the worst financial deficits in the country (i think they may even be #2). i dont see any good signs from this and have a feeling it will impact the cost of living in the state/city
Go where your friends are. Will make life easier.
PICK BASED ON THE FKING JOB
Chicago, so I can expand my finance networks :D
I have actually lived in all 3. I maintain my above position that you should choose based on the job. But, quick thoughts:
1) Chicago definitely has a different culture than SF/NYC. I have never seen a city that is so obsessed by sports - even the women. It is a somewhat less sophisticated than SF/NYC - you are more likely to meet somebody who is disgusted by sushi, for instance. Cost of living is low - you can get a nice studio downtown (gold coast/streeterville) for under ~$1000. Restaurants, entertainment, etc. are solid, but are a step down from NYC in both price and quality. But unless you regularly frequent Per Se or the opera, you won't miss it.
2) SF is almost as expensive as NYC. Rent will be ~1500 for a studio. You will also want a car if you plan on getting out of the city (which I strongly recommend). People claim SF is dirty, but it isn't worse than NYC in my opinion. Finance is not SF's main industry - I think 50% of SF's financial professionals work at 333 California st. I would personally choose SF for the weather (I grew up in the bay) but only if I had time to enjoy the city.
3) NYC is the finance hub. Stupidly expensive - $1800 for a studio. You will not, however, need or want a car. It is great for networking and interviewing; you can take a long lunch and have a first round done. I would never raise a family in Manhattan (maybe Brooklyn heights?) It can be a lot of fun, but you will pay a premium for everything. Also the nightlife in NYC is definitely superior to that of SF/Chicago, if you care about that.
Remember: All these cities have relatively high taxes, and all of them are very liberal. And if you are in IB, it really won't matter whether you are in NYC or on the moon - you will rarely be outside the office.
These days $1800 will get you a homey closet-sized "apartment" in a pre-war, 5th floor walk-up. More like $2200 minimum for a habitable studio.
True, true...I have very low standards. I'll sleep on a Murphy bed if it shaves $50 per month off my rent.
As someone who has also lived in all 3 places (and liked each of them for different reasons), here's my take. I agree with all of the above, except the rent prices in SF. It is more or less at parity with NYC now. All of these cities are also screwed on the tax front going forward - there is only one way to go: up.
Chicago - Weather's not great, but as a born and bred midwesterner, it never really bothered me. Summer in Chicago is awesome...you have an actual beach right downtown. I've spent more time on the water in Chicago than SF or NYC (incl. the Hamptons) - this isn't necessarily intuitive to most people. Nightlife in Chicago is really good, but the bottles/models scene isn't as prevalent or that good. If trendy clubs and bottle service is your thing, NYC is better. If you are really into sports, Chicago is probably the best in the country. No other city does Sunday-Funday as well. Girls in Chicago are great - very friendly and approachable, plenty of variety and talent. Hot girls in Chicago actually go to normal bars (same with SF). It is by far cheaper than the other places, even after factoring in that you need a car.
NYC - Weather is ok but not anything to brag about. I'd take Chicago in the summer and NYC in the winter so it's not a huge improvement. Nightlife is great and there is incredible variety. If you are single and in your 20's, it is the best city in the country if you are looking to rage. That said, if you are more chill and into pubs/sports bars, Chicago or SF might be better. The best girls in NYC are usually at the trendy places, which is fine if you are into dealing with that scene - lines, door guys, bottle service, etc. The top 1-2% of girls in NYC are comprised of the hottest girls in the world. If you've got game, there is serious talent available. Access to the elite aside, you will deal with much more attitude and snobbery from girls in NYC. They simply aren't as approachable or friendly/down-to-earth as girls in the other cities. NYC is most expensive of the three, and who knows what the diminished supply of units from Sandy will do to rents? I know of buildings that won't be fixed for >6 months - this will have ripple effects on the market. NYC will likely provide the best networking opportunities and career upside (outside of tech).
SF - By far the best weather, as long as you are ok with mild and damp for most of the year. I personally love it. The best part is that if you get sick of the weather, you can drive an hour and be in an entirely different (and more sunny) climate. It also provides the best access to outdoor activities, like cycling or skiing. The social scene is very happy hour and weekend focused. There is almost nothing to do on Sun-Wed nights, particularly if you are working late. The bar scene is low-key but fun. I believe the girls in SF are under-rated. Plenty of talent and limited competition, which makes it like shooting fish in a barrel. The guys at the top of the food chain in SF tend to be tech geeks/engineers or gay. Professional guys with some social skills are in limited supply. To me, the major downside of dating is SF is that there is a big new-agey, hyper-liberal influence that permeates a lot of girls/society at large, which may or may not matter to you. SF is now as expensive for rent as NYC, but everything else is cheaper so it still wins on COL. You may or may not need a car, depending on your job location, interests. SF is great for career opportunities in certain industries, like tech, but it is much more limited for general finance than NYC.
All three places are great; it just depends on what you are looking for over the first couple years of your career. I found it easy to make friends in all three places.
One major thing to consider is how many hours you will be working. If you are working 80+ hrs/week, NYC will be the easiest to maintain a social life as there are a ton of other people working those kind of hours, even outside of finance. In Chicago/SF, you somewhat fall off the social radar, if you can't ever meet up until after midnight (Chicago > SF on this front as well). The counterpoint to this is that most offices in Chicago and SF are more laid-back than their counterparts in NYC so you might be working fewer hours in the same job in those cities. Good luck!
Edit: One final thought - I don't currently live in any of the above cities, but of the 3, NYC is the only one I would not move back to. I feel that you have to work too many hours there versus the other cities because of the corporate cultures. I also wouldn't want to raise a family there. I'd easily go back to either of Chicago or SF with SF being the slight favorite.
Do most bros in downtown Chicago really have a car? Didn't think that was the case?
WC Rainmaker, where do you live now? I am interested in getting into PE in the near future - can you comment on the opportunities for getting into PE in those cities?
West coast PE is dominated by VC, Growth Equity, and tech funds. If that's your thing, great. There are some great generalist firms, but I am speaking in broad trends. Interviewing will be tough if you are on the East Coast.
NYC is the big winner for PE, both on the number of PE firms and the ease of interviewing.
Chicago is comparatively light with regards to PE. There are certainly some great ones (e.g. Equity Group investments) but Chicago skews towards trading and commodities.
Keep in mind I am in ER, and am not actively looking into PE exits. I would personally recommend working in the city where you want to work long term. You can move (particularly from NYC), but it is much easier to start where you want to end up.
I prefer LA over NYC. To me its the freedom i get being able to drive to places whereas in NYC i'm at the mercy of the shittie fucking subways. I prefer LA traffic to NYC subway breakdown every other week.
I don't know maybe because i'm originally from west coast i'm really biased and prefer my personal space compared to this cluster fuck where u call a Cali size closet a NYC bedroom.
live west of the 405 if you don't want to kill yourself in Los Angeles. Santa Monica or Venice otherwise life will be miserable.
Having never lived in Chicago/NY, I can only comment on SF. That being said, it's easy to say that SF is very different from the other two. Rent in choice areas (Marina/Russian Hill/North Beach) is almost par with NY, at $1800 for a studio, $3400 for a 2-Bed. The city has an outdoorsy vibe and everyone is active. People call in their nights early so they can be up for surfing/jogging in the morning. Nightlife shuts down at 2 AM and the club scene is below average for a major city. Ignore everyone above that claims you need a car to live in SF. Where are you going to park it? BART/MUNI will take you to every block in the city for $60/Month. Now, if you want to ski up in Tahoe, that's a different story. It's also very small in terms of geography: 7 Miles from the Bay Bridge to Ocean Beach, which is the entire span of the city. If you're looking for fast paced, high-end nightlife, I'd pass on SF. But if you enjoy outdoor activities and care about the climate, the choice is easy. Just my two cents.
One more thing about SF, though the nights do end earlier...there is a ton of day drinking that goes on during the weekends starting Friday. It seems like no one works fridays in this city, or they always "work" remotely ie happy hour starts at noon.
Take Chicago. Live on the near north side or wrigleyville or something like that. It won't cost you much but you'll pay the price with the winters. Great city all around and #2 to NYC in terms of finance, so if you don't want to live in NYC this is a great option. A very manageable city in terms of getting around.
are you really asking people on WSO where they think YOU should live for the next 2-3 years? God wtf has this website come to in the eyes of some people....
can you even make a decision for yourself? sounds like no, so live close to your friends/family. congrats on moving to NY you know thats where you'll end up.
Just a quick question for anyone else reading this. How would L.A compare to NYC? I don't want to live in Chicago, and I would prefer not to live in SF, just because of bad experiences there. I have open offers to L.A and NYC in MM Funds? I graduated from Wharton for undergrad, and I have good networking and connections.
I've lived in all three, and currently live in one.
Agree with everything Techbanker said, but since he didn't make a recommendation I will: SF 100%.
The weather is ridiculously consistent (sweater/ light - jacket weather which I consider ideal). The housing is slightly cheaper than NYC on an absolute basis, and significantly cheaper on a quality adjusted basis.
SF has basically everything NYC has, but it's much easier to avoid the big city grind if that's not your thing.
The girls are nice, and as suggested the dating scene is not as competitive.
NYC was my least preferred of the three, but it might have a "gotta try it once" appeal for someone newly out of college.
Just read about your interest in PE. That would be the #1 advantage NY has over SF. Recruiting will be substantially easier from NYC, since everyone (East Coast, West Coast, Midwest) recruits in NYC. I'm not sure the East Coast firms go out of their way to recruit in Chicago or SF.
It's possible being local will give you an edge with West Coast firms though
If most of your friends and family are on the east coast, definitely go for NYC.
I'm in the situation where I'm out west and everyone is back east. Its a pain to travel back and forth, and it gets expensive quickly. Carefully think about this before you move.
And i'll echo what someone said above, you're on the earth to live and enjoy life, not save all that you can.
How often do you travel back to the east coast? How long have you been out west and do you think of moving back east eventually? I think if I move to SF, I would like to fly back at least twice every three months.
When I was still with my ex, I'd fly to Boston maybe once every month (we have since broken up). Now, I usually fly home (CT) just for holidays or special events because the flight is awful. There is nothing you can do to make a 5 hour flight (6 or 7 in your case) more comfortable.
I've been out west for about 7 months now, and I plan to move back east; I ultimately want to set up my life in NYC.
You can definitely do flying back 2x every three months (assuming you can afford it) - I don't think you'd burn yourself out. Just pack a good amount of books/movies on your tablet for the flights back and forth.
Fly Jet Blue if you can; their carrier is the most comfortable (not including 1st class of course) in my opinion
I've been to Boston for a week, do think that's a fantastic place to live.
it better to be on the east coast with friends on teh west coast because you can drunk dial ppl late as fuck from the nyc and ppl in cali will still be awake to listen to your bs.
i also really enjoy waking up on a sunday at like 945 and goign straight to bar for breakfast and football games starting at 10
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