Why Are They Sending Us Back to the Office?
I was reading a Bloomberg article this morning outlining how most banks plan to implement initiatives to start sending employees back after Labor Day. I was also recently on a call with leadership that outlined our return procedure, and all of the safety protocols they had set in place to ensure our “health and wellness” as this is of “utmost concern”. It was communicated that they were monitoring other banks processes, and didn’t want to be the first or last bank to send their employees back. Wtf??
So they’re just going to play follow the leader so they don’t have to deal with bad press? What a crock of shit. My thinking is, if they are legitimately concerned for our well being, why are they sending us back at all? I don’t even want to get into the granularities like transportation, food, and the plethora of other external risks that a bank cant control. If looked at objectively, they sent us home with total cases in the US under what, 100k? Correct me if I’m wrong. Now there are 5mm+ cases in the US, and they’re sending us back? I just don’t really understand the rationale. Gotta squeeze everything out of those already paper thin margins anyway, right boys?
Mod Note - see a related post: JPM Requiring Everyone Return to Office--Trouble Ahead
Bloomberg article: Goldman Sachs Asks Staff to Return to London Office: WFH Tracker
Because the boomers can't stand their wives and need to get back to yelling at their analysts ~in person~
Gen Z keeps racking up the dubs with the zingers boomers need to catch up
Most are waiting until 2021
Stop being so soft. Unless you have an underlying health condition, you have .1% chance of anything serious happening if you contract it. Worry more about your Uber driver getting in a crash or the mental health effects of working 80 hour weeks or all the shitty food you order on Seamless
Edit: Apparently you guys really hate the office so much that you're willing to fabricate the dangers of this virus to young people. By all available data, this is not a deadly virus to people fresh out of college, but if you insist on ignoring the facts, then go right ahead.
Not accurate but ok
stfu intern
Edit: his original comment said stfu prospect... as an intern lmao.
Care to explain away every piece of data we have on this virus?
You're a fucking prospect, dude. You don't get a chance to speak on this until you're actually in our shoes. Some of us have family members who are at risk. Have fun studying in your parent's basement for your freshmen year at ASU.
Yeah fucking sick bro you work in IB? I didn't realize that gives you superior data analysis abilities. Care to share how this virus is so deadly that young people die more often from the flu? And what, you're an associate and you live with elderly family members? Note that it's still possible to have a system where people opt out of coming back in provided they or someone they live with are at risk.
I bet $100 you’re white.
i don’t want to return to the office because me being young means I’m likely to spread the virus without symptoms. I won’t die, but the Black and Latino communities might.
we give unemployment benefits by cutting their access to Medicare. We send their kids back to school even if they’re at risk of bringing back the virus to homes where the parents work for minimum wages. And all under the premise that “us, privileged young people” won’t die? Welcome to America.
Just say it's a blm protest. Then it's totally fine for the black community to gather in mass groups (covid is pretty woke so it only kills republicans and racists)
man stfu what a disgusting comment
Lol I love these "prospect" interns, not even FT employees, talking about returns to the office. I actually am 30 and battled COVID coughs for 2 weeks. Couldn't smell or taste anything for about 5 weeks. No, I would not recommend getting COVID by going back to the office. Unless you want immunity for the winter when it unequivocally gets worse.
Mad respect for you! Exactly my thoughts. BRING US BACK TO COLLEGE🙄
Prospect, this is not only the most basic counter argument we could have heard but your argument is intellectually dishonest by ignoring the butterfly effect of how cases can transmit
Some great perspective. https://www.franklintempletonnordic.com/investor/article?contentPath=ht…
"prospect"
Hey totally get that you're gung-ho about getting into the shit with the guys at the office but on behalf of everyone who has worked in an office for at least a year, no thank you.
Why bear the risk of even contracting something? My rationale is that sure, maybe I get the virus and am asymptomatic but what about my girlfriend or family? What if they get it from me and display moderate to heavy symptoms? Can't have such a myopic view such as yourself unless you literally don't come in contact with anyone else at all in life at present
Get over it. At some point your employer will make a decision about when and where they would like you to sit and perform the work they pay you to do. If you don’t like where that is... quit. Stop pretending like you are somehow being abused and forced in to hard labor camp to collect your 1%er paycheck. You have choices. You are a fully grown adult.
While you sit there and throw a temper tantrum about having to change out of your PJs and return to the office I would imagine these fears of yours also hold true in your spare time? Let me guess... there is NO way you have gone out to eat, met the boys at a beach house, been golfing, been to a gathering with friends, gone on a vacation/road trip, been to the gym, been to a retail store to go shopping? Wah, but it was EssEnTiaL!
Spare us the f’n rant dude - I totally get wanting to ride it at out home for as long as possible but don’t play the high-horse-rational-virus-facts card when it comes to the office.
FWIW, We left the office mid-May and have been back since July. I take the subway daily, food is fine, and you just roll with the new protocols as they are delivered.
Quitchurbitchin.
I found the boomer
There’s the virtual intern regurgitating internet jokes
There are clear risks associated with going back for some people, illustrated by all the precautions and safety measures set in place by the banks. Why subject your workforce to potentially harmful conditions when there is a safer alternative that has been proven to work for the past 6 months or so?
Uh that risk is called liability and/or Cuomo the cuck not letting you open your doors. It has nothing to do with whatever “science” has determined to be the theme of the week before changing its tune next week.
this guy really like running upside down and chasing down his analysts to make them eat.
hope he didnt touch the sperm i smeared on the subway handles
Wear a mask...social distance during the workday and where you can. Even if you have to ride mass transit, wear the damn mask! Wash your hands. Don't go in if you have symptoms.
You are running a bullpen, not a labor camp.
Our MDs are being chill about face time/ optics (probably due in part to the fact that they don’t want to schlep back themselves) but I feel bad for those in groups that are forcing kids to get back or sign new leases when the only reason they’d need to be in the city is literally to shuffle to and fro from the office (and who even knows for how long). At least let them stay with friends/ family and save their take home while they’re being fucked in the ass wrt hours, especially when bonuses are so uncertain
I don’t even see what the point is about making them go back since I’d feel guilty as fuck making them stay late when there are legit crazy people roaming outside and people are getting stabbed at the 14th st 123 station like every other day also
COVID is a joke for 99% of the population. You can't hide in your basement forever
I get what you're trying to say, but you worded it poorly. I agree, covid is just another version of SARS and MERS, another disease we won't come up with a vaccine for, and unfortunately is a disease that when exposed to the elderly or those with serious health issues, can lead to death. My grandmother caught it and passed away in May, but she was already suffering with multiple other health issues and was a diabetic. I don't think covid killed her, I think it was just the final straw that unfortunately got her. Reports of Miami/Florida area being completely over run with covid are also highly over exaggerated as my cousin and her husband just came back from Florida recently and everyone there is fine.
Who "everyone?" Those who are not fine aren't probably outside. Ever heard of selection bias?
I live in Texas and 1,000 of the 12,000 COVID deaths (~8%) were people in their 40's or younger. I haven't found good data nationally showing deaths by age group, but if you extrapolate that 8% across the 185,000 deaths nationally - we are talking about 15,000 deaths in the US so far.
Most experts think maybe 10% of americans have been infected thus far -- so there's as many as 150,000 of these lives at stake -- these are people who should not be dying.
Even if you don't give a damn about older americans (my parents are 70 and have many good years left) don't pretend that the people in your office are safe. They aren't.
I don't buy those statistics. There has been so much misreporting and almost all of the deaths of people below 65 have preexisting conditions. With that being said, look at the CDC stats for deaths by age - they speak for themselves in terms of young people https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex . I've had covid and know 60+ people in my age range who have had it. Most of us had no symptoms, the ones that did have symptoms felt like they had a minor cold.
I don’t think most firms will be back until 2021 at this point and if a NYC office opens, it’s only a matter of time before people catch it, spread it and are forced to shut down again
Username checks out
The reopening process needs to be controlled and done in stages. Clearly, you can't just declare the ALL CLEAR and just throw open the doors. Otherwise, you get another surge and shutdown.
Not actually sure this is true. My bank in NY has reopened and we've had no cases yet. Good mask wearing and hand washing go a long, long way...
Concern about COVID has never been about the fatality rate of infected young adults without pre-existing conditions. It has always been about the ability of the virus to spread exponentially, especially during a typical NYC commute where someone may come into close contact with 50-100 individuals on any given day. Once the virus begins the spread, it's only a matter of time before your grandparents or someone with a comorbidity comes into contact with the virus. Remind me, what's the obesity rate in the United States?
No fear. Just science. Stop politicizing a public health crisis. Christ.
What's your exit point for lockdown then? A vaccine that may never work? What if 5 years down the line vaccine isn't developed...is it ok to kill my grandma then vs now? Older people and those with or existing conditions should be allowed to wfh and avoid public gatherings, the rest of us can enjoy having a more normal life. Only 3 people in the us military have died from covid. Out of 1mm service members. And they were not taking it serious. No reason for younger healthy people to be locked down indefinitely.
But as amendment, I want to work from home..for selfish I hate face time reasons. Has nothing to do with covid
The solution is much cheaper and available testing. Like paper strip testing you could do for a buck a day. Test yourself everyday and quarantine the minute you are positive.
For the headlines. A bank that is able to get everyone back to work in the office will gain popularity and be able to brag about how they were the first to get everyone back into the office while the coronavirus was still ongoing, and that may result in a higher stock price.
I like that tech firms are letting people WFH til mid next year, or end of 2021. As long as you get your work done, for most jobs, especially most finance gigs, I don't see the need to get back into the office.
Nope.
I'm a fan of the hybrid approach. I think there is a clear benefit to having people meet together in one place occasionally to interact and share ideas. It's a different atmosphere from a Zoom call. Maybe the way to do this is to have people in the office on certain assigned days and WFH the other days. Start with 2 in and 3 WFH and see how it goes. Bring back different departments on different schedules.
Cmon guys....do I have to solve everything? (sarcasm)
I am genuinely confused as well. There are considerable risks with going back, maybe not to us young people directly, but to older people by extension. So tired of hearing the argument "Well they pay you and if you don't want to do your job, just quit". The investment banks are doing just fine. It's not like they are losing money - revenues are flat, and even up in trading. Maybe a bit of hyperbole, but it sucks having to choose between killing your grandparents and getting paid.
Can I ask a question and I don't mean to be snarky? When does everyone feel that it is appropriate to return to the office? I'm just curious. Is it a certain amount of people inoculated or something along those lines?
Personally, I would say when there is a vaccine, and x amount of the population has been vaccinated. The US has already shown it is incompetent at handling and mitigating virus-related risks. People make mistakes, and no matter how many measures you put in place to make the workplace safe, it is always going to be safer if you don't come in at all.
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Wow sorry to hear that man. What a joke. Are they giving you any optionality to work from home?
Certainly doesn’t sound like it
There is absolutely no need to go back to the office. None. We have been executing deals start-to-finish virtually including M&A, IPOs, and LBOs over the last several months. I understand the economic/political reasons for wanting to reopen the economy for most people who need to be at work to generate an income (food service, retail, etc.) but for white collar workers like ourselves there is no rational argument for needing to sit next to each other in person.
What are your thoughts on permanent WFH? IS it a possibility at your bank?
Disagree. WFH is depressing and lonely and not worth the saved commute time, rent money, and sleep.
For u
Honestly, I'm saving so much time and money on parking/commuting, it outdoes the lack of in person interaction.
It should be voluntary. But seriously, no one misses the office?
As an analyst, I personally see zero reason be in the office. I can do my job entirely from my kitchen, and probably more efficiently than before. At least now when I am waiting around for my directors and VP's to get back to me I can work out, cook, or do whatever.
Do I miss office culture? Nope.
Do I miss the people I work with? Nope.
Do I miss sweating my ass off on the subway in the summer? Nope.
Do I miss freezing my ass off in the subway in the winter? Nope.
Do I miss paying for overpriced NYC food every day? Nope.
Do I miss shitty seamless dinner? Nope.
Do I miss waiting in the office 10pm to get slammed with comments? Nope.
Do I miss having to drag my ass out of bed at 8:30 the next day to come in? Nope.
Do I miss having to shave and put on work clothes every day? Nope.
Do I miss answering the phone at approximately 6:30PM to hear "Foolobbynow" and then walking downstairs to find the delivery guy isn't even here yet? Kinda - NGL usually its the highlight of my day
Damn man seems like you really hated your job...
Loner. It’s not normal to be completely content being alone all day. Junior morale is at an all-time low without the culture.
Do I miss office culture? I work at a Frat house
Do I miss the people I work with? I miss the boys
Do I miss sweating my ass off on the subway in the summer? I don't sweat much.
Do I miss freezing my ass off in the subway in the winter? Nope. Agreed
Do I miss paying for overpriced NYC food every day? Nope. Agreed
Do I miss shitty seamless dinner? Nope. Agreed.
Do I miss waiting in the office 10pm to get slammed with comments? Hit up the nearest bar, Tuesdays was group night.
Do I miss having to drag my ass out of bed at 8:30 the next day to come in? Nope. Agreed.
Do I miss having to shave and put on work clothes every day? I miss wearing my Patagucci
Do I miss answering the phone at approximately 6:30PM to hear "Foolobbynow" and then walking downstairs to find the delivery guy isn't even here yet? Word of advice, wait for the 3rd call. That means it's urgent and they're actually there.
Left my gucci behind. Hope he's holding it together all alone out there.
Same. Treat him to a good press cleaning and all will be forgotten.
That sucks man. The idea that WFH will become more of a permanent fixture in my office has gained greater acceptance. So chances are, even if they start allowing people to head back into the office at some point next year, I don’t think a good chunk of people will return.
I'm not in a rush to get back into the city by any means due to COVID. But if this pandemic were off the books, I'd be back in the office wheeling and dealing with the team. Huddling virtually just isn't the same as being out there on the field.
I’m agreeing with the comments above about not hiding in your basement forever. I guess in S&T being in the office is more important for communication, but in the same light WFH SUCKS if you’re an extrovert. I also actually like my desk mates, so not having the ability to just joke around or go out for spontaneous beers after work takes the fun out of work. And chatting via IB just isn’t the same. I’m a millennial too, and I know a lot of others who think the same. I think the older you get the more you realize that when it’s your time to go it’s your time, and COVID is one of MANY things that probably won’t kill you, so why be afraid? I still have buddies who order groceries for fucks sake, people need to get over it because we may never have a cure.
why wouldnt you order groceries? amazon fresh is amazing
I understand your concern, but I'll be honest. My office (Non finance related) has not shut down for one day since the pandemic started. We are an essential business and we have taken the proper precautions to ensure our workers are safe. I would expect any decently sized bank would take the same or better precautions due to the size and profitability. Small businesses (like the one I work for) have struggled to do so, due to limited resources (cash, worker availability, and etc - especially with the affect of covid on our business) but yet some of us are still plugging away.
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What do minorities have to do with this discussion?
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Unless they are asians. Then they don't count. Liberals only think blacks and Hispanics goto a non target from the moment they are born. A poor Asian does not. Their cultural background of hard work and intense focus on education and family ties(very little single parent homes) makes them honorary members of the white patriarchy. Despite the fact they were out in internment camps as little as 70 years ago.
Why are Asians, despite facing significant discrimination in American society, able to have higher average salaries, higher rates of high school graduation, lower rates of crime, lower rates of single parent homes etc etc than every race in the USA (including whites). Perhaps black and Latino culture is contributing to this parity in results and it's not solely the fault of an oppressive white built structure of racism stopping them.
This entire post is just propping up the model minority myth.
You know all the answers to what you're asking, but I understand you are venting.
They say health is of the utmost importance because.... well do you expect them NOT to say that? Come on. It's a useless platitude. People do this, it's not new.
Wall Street is literally a vast majority of lemmings. So many processes are broken and inefficient and should change. But there's a ton of money in fees generated and senior folks with a chip on their shoulder who can't wait to tell the next generation "I had to go through this so shut up and take it." Are you surprised they're all looking at their peers to follow in this case too?
I think part of what's happening is that a lot of MDs, especially the fast risers, were rewarded for always being at the office regardless of life circumstances. I know a lot of senior leadership at different finance-adjacent industries like partners at white shoe law firms who were always in the office during COVID, even though they were obese or old etc. They want to show everyone how tough they are by bringing everyone into the office because that's how they were rewarded in the past. Now that's some faulty logic when these very same seniors are at the greatest risk of dying from COVID and how this is a national crisis, but you see that sort of logic in America everywhere right now.
I wouldn't mind working from the office once every few weeks for important meetings and events, but other than that I don't see the point
Well, despite the war that is going in this thread, I would like to share the date my firm has us (incoming FT analysts) going back into the office.
The target date is the first week of October (SF).
Thanks.
lol sucks - eb here confirmed wfh at least until Jan. culture matters
Oh my fucking god. Everyone was crying nonstop about how the quarintine was depressing because they were at home all day, now your bitching because you have to go back to the office? Fucking Christ.
Bro I've never complained I been vibing this is great
I understand the want to return to the office. Unless you aren't working through a VPN (ie no one in finance) there is some efficiency loss that was ok if business was slow but is terrible when things pick up. The lack of easy communication compounds that big time (there are days where I have had to tap 'can I call you later?' 10 times). Plus the social aspect is very real.
On the other side, no office is ready for covid at full or even half-capacity right now. Just look at Western Europe. The minute people started going back in, cases started going back up and now people have to wear masks at their desks which, why even bother going?
Any major corp asking for a mandatory return to the office before 2021 is guaranteeing itself a full-on mutiny imo.
Nothing wrong with viewing working from home as better. However, many people are using the coronavirus as an excuse to work from home because the virus is "scary" and might kill everyone in the office if we go back. Like seriously, most of you people are young and strong enough to go back to the office many months ago.
Also, don't use the "but my grandparents will die if I go back to the office and get infected" excuse. Most of you people don't even live with your elders and probably never visit them. In fact, a lot of people were saying "OK BOOMER and "old people are ruining our country" before all of this. Yet, for some reason you care about old people now?
So as a whole, it is OK to prefer working from home but please be honest with yourself. Don't use old people or your made up fear of the virus as an excuse. Most of you are young, and being young usually means you should be fearless and driven. Admitting you are afraid of a virus that has such a low death rate makes you look like a pussy.
This comment makes no sense .. so your saying if I don’t live with my grandparents I can’t get someone’s else grand parents infected?
Although past data shows elderly people are most susceptible we don’t get to play the game I’m not sick I don’t live around old people which means I won’t get anyone else infected so I’m ok.
Remember even people who didn’t realize they had underlying conditions got the virus and were hospitalized or died.
I’m not saying wish stay remote for ever because there is value of going into the office but I can tell you as someone who tested positive for covid antibodies and felt a milder version of covid back in March ... it is not worth it.
I think banks are playing a guessing game for political reasons and following the government’s advice ... which is not 100% trustworthy
These are the same people who told us not to wear masks 7 months ago
Bottom line, it should be optional and the fact that one bank stated
Why does no one ever mention the long-term affects and complications of the virus? Sure, you could initially get it with very mild symptoms, but for years (using SARS as a base) down lane you could have long-term side effects with long-term fatigue, headaches, vertigo, difficulties with cognition, hair loss, cardiac issues, and diminished cardiorespiratory fitness. This is terrifying. Honestly, only time I have been grateful to have an immunocompromised system...
https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/discussion/long-term-symptoms-complications-of-covid-19/#:~:text=%22We're%20really%20seeing%20a,issues%2C%20and%20diminished%20cardiorespiratory%20fitness.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-09536-z
Ok can someone explain this to me: my bank walked us through their set of guidelines for returning to the office and the they are insanely restrictive (makes sense obviously). I'm just very confused as to what the hell the point of coming back is when you can only have a few people allowed in a conference room at a time, can't go in people's individual offices, have to wear a mask all the time, etc.
Like are we really going to all be sitting in the office still having meetings on zoom with our team because we are not allowed to meet in a conference room? Really fail to see the benefit of going through all the hassle of coming in to the office when we won't even be able to do half the things that make the office valuable...
Returning to the office with masks and social distancing is like having protected sex with someone who has an STD...not ideal.
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I don't disagree with the sentiment behind your post at all, but the 5m+ number is totally useless. Most of those people have had it and recovered. Looking at all the historical numbers is pointless since it gives a distorted view of the current risk.
Right now the entire state of NY is averaging about 600 new cases a day, for a state of almost 20 million (which is 3 per 100,000). NYC and the surrounding areas are at that level, it's not just upstate that's keeping the numbers low. NYC is at 3.1, Westchester County is 3.6, Nassau County is 3.7, Bergen County, NJ is 3.1. That's really good as far as the US is concerned (low bar, I know). Be happy you're not in LA (13), SF (10), Houston (21), Dallas (14), or Chicago (13).
All numbers from the NYT.
Imagine still being afraid or concerned about COVID. Couldn't be me.
Agree 100%. Crazy to see how easy it is for media to manipulate people
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