Will “diversity” hurt promotions?
Will the new necessity of “diversity” hurt people’s prospects for rising through the ranks at banks?
I see a lot of promotions/hiring where it seems like people get promoted/hired mainly due to their race, gender, etc. I’ve seen so many clearly qualified candidates passed up simply because they don’t “diversify the firm”
Critical race theory will be the destruction of Western civilization as we know it.
Can you explain to me like I'm 5 what critical race theory is? I just googled it but could not understand the resulting description.
I may be wrong but my friend's girlfriend is mastering in history and "studies" this and from what I understand its about how Race affects laws and politics today.
I could be wrong.
CRT basically states that everything in the world must be viewed through the lens of race. Science is racist (and probably sexist too), math is racist, literature is racist, history is racist, philosophy is racist... get the picture yet ? If you deny this obvious truth, then you too must be racist (or at the very least, suffering from "white fragility"). It's a poisonous ideology pushed by people who openly seek to destroy Western democracy.
this sounds like a jordan peterson style "i'll call every idea i don't like radically left post-modern marxist feminist" snowflake behavior
critical race theory is when ... corporations hire black people ?
How have you seen so many instances, yet you haven't even started full-time yet?
I'm guessing hearing anecdotes from friends who got dinged during superdays...
This is OP. Yeah, I’m incoming after getting dinged from a different firm. Above is also true—I’ve heard stories from others old and young.
There are honestly 10+ other threads where this topic has been exhausted. Not attacking you, but I don't give AF about some senior's "anecdotes."
I've noticed that most diversity hires leave banking/finance rather quickly so no they won't be much of a threat to your promotion I'd say
No.
an incoming analyst who has insight into how promotions are done?
sounds like your friends (none of whom qualify as diversity it seems, so this certainly must be a very unbiased take) aren't as qualified as you think they are. because of course your judgement of your friends' abilities and their own personal perception of how their superdays went are really great data points on who did or didn't deserve offers
I work at a fortune 500 company. I have noticed that females get promotions very quickly. I was in a group where it normally took 8-9 years to get 4 promotions, and these people were really smart. This girl ended up with 4 promotions within 4 years, and albeit she was smart, she was not doing anything special that justified her quick climb.
My advice to you is don't pay attention to this. Focus on developing your skills, and if you see that you are getting screwed over by these policies, start applying to other jobs.
Focus on what you can control
Ironically, both fired bosses from CS now were diversity hires :D :D
It certainly hurts people, companies and societies not to have best people in best position but make hiring / promotion decisions on skin colour / orientation etc grounds. Western world is competing with china that doesn't have these issues, but well ''diversity is our greatest strength''
The Chinese even have a word to describe these “woke” tyrants: baizuo
It goes without saying that for China its a waiting game to be able to surpass the US (if they manage to fix their own issues ofc)
The answer is an emphatic "yes". I'm an ED at a large US bank, and all I hear about these days is diversity, inclusion and "equity" (which seems to be some sort of codeword for forced equality of outcome). A couple of years ago, we were basically told to hire 50% females "or there will be consequences". Cue a massive amount of barrel-scraping to find semi-competent candidates who tick the correct boxes. The same thing is now happening with race. I've sat on VP promo committees where there has been open talk of "applying the diversity overlay", which is code for : to hell with merit, let's make sure we promote some women.
It is indeed a recipe for disaster. The quality is slipping, talented people are bailing.... I honestly don't know if some of these companies will be able to stand the incoming deluge of morons. It's OK to have one or two on the team, if you can keep them away from trouble. But the trouble is that idiots hire more idiots, and before too long the whole company is rotting from the inside. At least in banking nobody's going to get killed if you screw up, but Christ.. can you imagine going for brain surgery and learning that the anaesthesiologist was a fast-track diversity hire just as you go under ? I can only hope we wake up from this socialist nightmare before too much damage is done.
Original poster here...I’ve heard countless stories of this from others. The reason I ask is multifaceted. For one, I don’t look forward to fighting uphill...I’m a first-gen, and that fight has already been tough, not going to the best schools and more. Now, I have my gender and race to overcome.
Second, the quality of America’s most elite institutions will erode from the inside out. It’s these stories that confirm many of my fears. Quite frankly, I don’t know what to do. I guess controlling what I can, but I still feel unsettled knowing something I can’t control could become a stumbling block to my career progression.
My bank has said that that they “have made great strides in hiring but still notice a lack of diversity candidates in leadership positions” clearly it follows that their promotional system is discriminatory. So, they will apply the same affirmative action logic to promotion evaluations. They’ve said they will accelerate promotions for diversity candidates and basically do whatever it takes to keep them in their new jobs no matter how incompetent they are as it looks bad if we keep firing all the diversity people. No one has thought to mention that the reason that are being fired from their more senior roles is that they are incompetent and shouldn’t have been promoted in the first place. As a high performing white male I’ve found that if you are good at your job and shut the fuck up they won’t touch you. In the end they still need someone to make money.
I agree with what you are saying completely. My question is, where is this top talent going to? -- EB's?
Where would the top talent at let's say a prestigious F500 tech company go to when diversity is eroding the merit of the senior ranks (at almost every tech company)?
I think on Wall St there are more firms that hire strictly based off merit i.e RenTech. But still, interested in all of your insights.
I have a friend who reports to C Suite at an F100 and they just hired a black woman to run a multi multi billion dollar vertical. She has great experience on paper but has so far been ineffectual. He told me that its known across senior leadership that she isn’t there to actually do the job. She knows she is there for optics and leadership knows that she will only use this is a launch pad for a CEO role in her future. All these diversity candidates and chief diversity officers just hop from place to place moving up in the chain. According to him, leadership has stated they will not hire any non diversity candidates in near future even if it takes leaving positions open for years until someone is found. White males have very little chance gunning for open senior leadership positions rn. The rejected talent simply stays unemployed.
Diversity is a great thing. Not sure why so many people have an issue with it.
I don’t have an issue with diversity. I actually have seen TRUE diversity become extremely helpful in my own life. However, what many banks are pushing is not genuine diversity.
I grew up with people who had extremely different backgrounds than me. Many of my friends were legitimately illegal immigrants. Many simply from different cultures and walks of life. I have learned and continue to learn so much from genuine diversity in my life.
What the banks are pushing is not genuine diversity. It’s forced diversity. It’s fake diversity. It’s posing at best. I love working with people who look different and came from different backgrounds compared to me. What I can’t stand is using that as the main or central factor in hiring/promoting. It’s a trend I’ve heard of in the corporate world, and as critical race theory continues to dominate our political/societal narrative, I only foresee it as continuing to hijack how these processes are carried out.
Because its based on race, not real struggles.
This notion that a black woman from the upper class is more disadvantaged than a white man from the uttermost poverty is the exact type of superficial discrimination they claim to fight.
I come from a ME family, dirt poor. My parents managed to give me and my sister a good chance at a good life through hard work and sacrifice. I can guarantee you that if we stayed in Syria rn we would still be poor, even if there hadn’t been a civil war. All I see from these diversity cultists is a pathetic effort to be handed out stuff without working for it. The victim mentality they have is literally the reason they can’t advance. These diversity programs just reinforce the idea that they are incapable of succeeding on their own and perpetuates the culture that they have to be handed out shit to progress. You really think someone who works their ass to get where they are will ever respect someone who was hired bc “we need more people of your skin color to look good”? What operation are we running here, a bank or a sticker album?
Struggles come with race full stop.
People of color are many times immediately judged when they walk in the door.
You all funny. In one thread countless people think their “MDs” are total morons and lucky to get a job. Other ones the MDs stuck around and did what no one else wanted.
Now scared you cant get promoted to MD cause of diversity. So I guess the future class will really dislike their diversity promoted MD.
Look forward to seeing the day when all of our MDs are Black/Asian LGBTs
Funny that you posted this anonymously.
Don't forget GS. They still attract a good amount of top notch analysts (who wants to put that GS name on their resume) but 99% of them leave anyway. Now, when you look at their MBA hires... it's a shit show
If everyone spent as much time networking and hustling as complaining about how their race has inhibited them, they'd probably tilt the odds more in their favour. Not saying there isn't potentially racism one way or the other, just that it should be viewed as an obstacle to overcome and when you do get the job, try and make sure you do your part to make hiring more equitable.
Sincerely,
A minority whose 10 letter long last name has undoubtedly made life more difficult
There are some real concerns with diversity based hiring, but it always seems to rest on the assumption that the status quo is a meritocracy. I know way more nepotistic hires than I do diversity, and at least with diversity you can actually pick the best of a pool without someone’s dad getting pissed their son didn’t get hired.
very true, over here in London at least, the kids who moan about diversity the most often got in via the backdoor which consisted of no interviews, or the easiest questions possible simply because daddy is a client
This is true to a certain extent, but there are a lot of organisations dedicated to supporting students from certain socio-economic backgrounds, and races. Look at SEO London, Rare Recruitment, Bright Network's diversity programs, and the countless "Black Future Leaders" and "Women in Finance" opportunities that exist!
I guess the real takeaway is that to succeed it's who you know, not what you know because the super-connected will be fine, and those eligible on the aforementioned programs above will fine. The rest will have to find another way either through conventional recruitment or networking.
I think it's a pendulum; at the moment society is over-correcting past wrongs but I do not believe that this will go on forever. Whilst some outcomes may be frustrating during this period I think it will balance out in the long-run. After all, corporations gotta get that bread.
Also, chill out, this kind of sounds like a whinge at something that's happened to you - if you are actually talented enough to move the needle, you will make it (not by crying yourself to sleep at night).
Lol, first off. Your comment saying this will stop clearly demonstrates your inability to understand the philosophy driving this societal movement. Postmodernism in action is Critical Theory. Part of their belief is that oppressed peoples can only be set free by dismantling the “systems” that oppress them...sounds like they’re not stopping anytime soon to me!
Second, I’m not crying myself to sleep. I’m observing trends in society, trends in the corporate world, and I’m asking WSO—the ones with more experience than I—to answer the questions I have. After getting denied from one bulge, I made it to another by the grace of God. No sweat. I’m still noticing patterns that may be cause of concern.
Pretty common place at most Canadian AMs particularly pensions, they don't even hide the blatant "discrimination" against "over represented groups". In Canada I'd posit smaller to mid sized firms will become filled with some great folks given how far the pendulum has swung (further than the US from what I see here).
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