The Value of Undergraduate Business School
Business Week just released its annual Best Undergraduate Business School rankings and it got me thinking about the value of said degree to the average aspiring monkey. Surely we know that finance, accounting, math and medieval interior design are the typical banking majors, but what about the backbone of all business?... business.
As has been mentioned ad nauseam on these boards, undergraduate business degrees may be one of the less likely paths to Wall Street. In fact, Wharton is the only undergrad b-school represented in the upper crust of these rankings, as far as traditional Wall Street targets go.
This begs the oft debated question: Should you major in business if you are considering a career on Wall Street? A question which is still tough to answer. That is why I am asking you guys to chime in with your thoughts once more.
Hopefully, such a debate can be of use to the multitudes of micro monkeys debating how best to embark upon their journey to Wall Street. I'm also curious as to what you guys think of some of the programs which ranked highly and their validity in the eyes of the industry recruiting machine. More importantly, it would be great to hear about guys/girls from some of these schools whose academic chops helped them climb the ladder once they did arrive on The Street. Naturally, if there are some academic halls which deserve layers of monkey shit...get your fling on.
Just to get us started, let me throw out seven schools out of the Top 15 and ask:
Would you recommend an incoming freshman any of the following diplomas, if they hope to make it to Wall Street? Why or Why not?
The (Maybe) M7
1) Notre Dame, Mendoza
2) Virginia, McIntire
3) Emory, Goizueta
4) Villanova
5) UNC, Chappel Hill
6) Brigham Young, Marriott
7) Richmond, Robins
Comments
Boston College over Richmond,
Boston College over Richmond, BYU, Nova, Emory and ND any day.
I've seen BC kids around
I've seen BC kids around everywhere. I've only ever seen one Emory kid in IBD. Ever.
tons of BC kids in DCM/ECM
tons of BC kids in DCM/ECM roles
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“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
Notre Dame and Emory ahead of
Notre Dame and Emory ahead of Wharton, MIT, and Georgetown? An undergrad business degree is still a degree from the school you went to, and the word "business" doesn't completely replace the name at the top of the diploma.
One of those lights, slightly brighter than the rest, will be my wingtip passing over.
I don't think the author was
I don't think the author was attempting to rank from the TOP.... he was ranking the middling undergrad business programs that are NOT connected to a traditional Ivy/target.
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“The American father is never seen in London. He passes his life entirely in Wall Street and communicates with his family once a month by means of a telegram in cipher.” - Oscar Wilde
What to start with ... I go
What to start with ...
I go to Emory and am in Goizueta Business School as an undergrad, concentration in finance, also doing a second major in the college in economics. Of the list you gave, I'd take Emory or UVA (saw some UVA kids at a Jeff interview who seemed to be getting really good OCR).
Philosophically, I'm against majoring in business as an undergrad and don't love the fact that I am graduating with a BBA (see it as being in a similar vain as a technical degree). I strongly considered not joining the business school program for this reason. If I had my way, I would major in English or Philosophy and Econ or some similar combination at a liberal arts college, work in banking, then return to professional school either for a JD or MBA.
Unfortunately, the world doesn't work this way anymore and is going a different direction – undergraduate business degrees are becoming more desirable for undergraduates.
My opinion about whether or not you should sell your soul – give up a liberal arts education to make 100K+ out of school – depends on your institution.
At Emory I think it is the right decision if you want to do banking, the BBA program is the strongest undergraduate program in the university. If I were at MIT – not claiming to have had that opportunity – I would probably choose Econ over Sloan.
and just to address this dubious comment:
I've seen BC kids around everywhere. I've only ever seen one Emory kid in IBD. Ever.
there are Emory kids at every major bank on the street, where do you work dude?
Right now there are and will be analysts at: UBS, HSBC, one at Goldman, Morgan Stanley, 6 at Lazard, CS, Barcap, plus the MM/Mid cap BMO, RBC, Jeff, Wells, Lazard MM.
fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
why is everyone mentally
why is everyone mentally handicapped and realized that these are for schools of BUSINESS which the ivies do not have, not the 'middle tier' schools.
I need a crib, a big estate, I need a boat and that need a lake, I need some salmon that need a plate, that need a chef so I feed my safe
From trading equities to slanging wine in Latin America
A ship is safe in harbor, but that is not what a ship i
I wouldn't got to BYU is they
I wouldn't got to BYU is they paid me. But that's more of a personal issue. UVA, UNC, Notre Dame, Emory all give you a pretty decent shot. When I was looking for FT and SA gigs, I never met anyone from U of Richmond anywhere.
When you are great, people will often mistake candor for arrogance.
It's more about who you know,
It's more about who you know, than what you know. My college is considered a non-target, unless you want to work at Northwestern Mutual, but I still have hope, even if I decide not to transfer and I've noticed something about colleges that are within close proximity to NYC. One of my finance teachers was an MD at a BB and still has connections in the industry, and by talking to another professor, I've learned about openings at UBS, although that's irrelevant for me now, because I'm still a freshmen. The point is that when you are in such close proximity to NYC all your professors are either retired from the industry and still hopefully have connections, or happen to know someone by coincidence. If you are target material at a non-target, professors will notice, and if you have a good sense of humor and pretend to like the same sports teams as they do, they will find you a decent job when you graduate.
Men are so simple and so much inclined to obey immediate needs that a deceiver will never lack victims for his deceptions.
-Niccolo Machiavelli
I'm starting to question the
I'm starting to question the value of business school, at both the undergraduate and graduate level. Here are some articles that talk about the alternatives and problems with business school:
http://www.businessinsider.com/967-of-the-time-i-s...
http://www.squidoo.com/Alternative-MBA
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2010/06/28/mba/
http://infochachkie.com/mba/
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2006/0...
Now, I'm not saying no one should go to business school, nor am I saying no one should get an MBA. I guess, I just question the usefulness of business school for training people how to think and how to compete in the business world. Maybe sitting around, listening to professors who've often never worked in the real world, talking about esoteric theories in management, finance, marketing, and strategy, has a large opportunity cost? Not to mention, business seems like sports in that you can't just learn it from reading/thinking about it, you actually need to get out there and do it. It seems like a non-trivial number of business people say that business school was a waste of time. Furthermore, a huge number of successful people didn't even go to business school. I'm starting to think students would do better by choosing majors like math, stats, computer science, physics, philosophy, engineering, and economics. I suspect a lot of these majors train you better mentally/analytically. So, if you're going to major in business, why not double major in one of these fields? Or, maybe even pick two majors from that list and go get some real world business experience like trading your own portfolio, starting your own business, P2P lending, consulting, volunteering, or internships? I suspect you'd be smarter and more well-rounded in the end, since everyone seems to agree they learn more in the first month on the job than they did in all of business school. Anyway, just my two cents...
For my aspiring Entrepreneurial Nomads, check out my blog.
Faustus wrote: What to start
What to start with ...
I go to Emory and am in Goizueta Business School as an undergrad, concentration in finance, also doing a second major in the college in economics. Of the list you gave, I'd take Emory or UVA (saw some UVA kids at a Jeff interview who seemed to be getting really good OCR).
Philosophically, I'm against majoring in business as an undergrad and don't love the fact that I am graduating with a BBA (see it as being in a similar vain as a technical degree). I strongly considered not joining the business school program for this reason. If I had my way, I would major in English or Philosophy and Econ or some similar combination at a liberal arts college, work in banking, then return to professional school either for a JD or MBA.
Unfortunately, the world doesn't work this way anymore and is going a different direction – undergraduate business degrees are becoming more desirable for undergraduates.
My opinion about whether or not you should sell your soul – give up a liberal arts education to make 100K+ out of school – depends on your institution.
At Emory I think it is the right decision if you want to do banking, the BBA program is the strongest undergraduate program in the university. If I were at MIT – not claiming to have had that opportunity – I would probably choose Econ over Sloan.
and just to address this dubious comment:
I've seen BC kids around everywhere. I've only ever seen one Emory kid in IBD. Ever.
there are Emory kids at every major bank on the street, where do you work dude?
Right now there are and will be analysts at: UBS, HSBC, one at Goldman, Morgan Stanley, 6 at Lazard, CS, Barcap, plus the MM/Mid cap BMO, RBC, Jeff, Wells, Lazard MM.
Top BB. Saw one Emory kid at Citi. Not to say it's not a good school, just saying I'd take UVA by far out of that list of schools, on a recruiting basis.
Faustus wrote: What to start
What to start with ...
I go to Emory and am in Goizueta Business School as an undergrad, concentration in finance, also doing a second major in the college in economics.
Not to sound rude, but how did you get a star as un undergrad still in school?
If I could go back, I def
If I could go back, I def would not have studied business. Would have done like a double major in History and Physics (2 areas I'm interested in).
ND places very well into many
ND places very well into many of the BB banks, though they do have a Chicago focus.
Additionally, they place amazingly into Big 4 and F500 roles, which while they aren't the focus of this forum are considered highly in the kind of survey linked.
There have been many great comebacks throughout history. Jesus was dead but then came back as an all-powerful God-Zombie.
Mezz wrote: Faustus
What to start with ...
I go to Emory and am in Goizueta Business School as an undergrad, concentration in finance, also doing a second major in the college in economics.
Not to sound rude, but how did you get a star as un undergrad still in school?
It's a valid question: I sent WSO my offer letter.
fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
What criteria makes you an
If I could go back I'd major
can_lah][quote=Faustus
fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
Coming from someone who's
The universities and colleges
In 1976, James Hunt broke the sound barrier through Eau Rouge only to retire before the event finished... following the race he had sex with three Belgian nurses at the clubhouse near La Source.
makers mark wrote: But for
For my aspiring Entrepreneurial Nomads, check out my blog.
The thing about Emory is, if
fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
They should really have
That might be the case, I'm
Solidarity wrote: They should
fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
to be honest I've met very
If I had to go to one on this
Solidarity wrote: to be
fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
repnation wrote: What
fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
mike55555 wrote: It's more
The rankings are misleading
econ wrote: makers mark
I'll be starting at Barcap as
I have an undergrad BBA
Bottom line: If you want to
Guys, this list is
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I'd recommend UMich if it was
fdba Emory Blaine and BBA or otherwise trying to find the perfect pseudonym.
MotivatedMonkey
Men are so simple and so much inclined to obey immediate needs that a deceiver will never lack victims for his deceptions.
-Niccolo Machiavelli
shorttheworld wrote: why is
Business fucking blows. Only
MSF Website
MACC Website
MSF Twitter
Typical WSO discussion.
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man made the money, money never made the man
There are some BC trolls
KICKIN ASS AND TAKING NAMES
A lot of you are missing the
I go to a super non-target
If you ain't buy side what are you doing on Wall St.? Gimme something good sport...
contrarian_in_thought
ANT wrote: Business fucking
For my aspiring Entrepreneurial Nomads, check out my blog.
BudFox24 wrote: There are
I go to onE of the seven
Well, the thing is, some of
I don't even go to BC and I