Break into management consulting without much experience
Hi guys,
I am graduating from Rutgers, New Brunswick in October 2016. In addition, I am a chemistry major with a 3.8 GPA. During my undergraduate years, I was a teaching instructor as well as a teaching assistant for several chemistry classes. Initially, I was pursuing a path towards academia, but after considering the ROI for getting a pHD in specifically organic chemistry, I decided to shift my career. Currently, I am attempting to break into management consulting/ strategic consulting at a Big 4. Recently, I have landed a non-paid consulting internship with a no name start up in its very early stages (less than a year). My boss is a former Deloitte consulting manager who has been consulting for over 10 years in the industry, and has huge faith in the start up as we have been generating revenue. For the last two months, he has been training me as any other Deloitte consulting intern/analyst. I have learned how to create decks, SOWs, client experience, etc. as well as other skills in marketing and finance as we are a very small team. I know that I am off cycle for applying to one of the Big 4. I was wondering if people could give me some feedback as what should I do next? Should I continue interning at this area or should I find work elsewhere? Are there any other methods of getting into Big 4 much sooner... maybe as a experienced consultant, anything? Should I make myself more marketable by taking CFA part 1, some sort of masters, etc? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Hi hi, have got job offers from top consulting firms, including Strategy& which may be on your list so here's some advice.
3.8 GPA is good. Can you do an MA at an Ivy league? you need that brand name school wise
At least in London, a start up (unless its a very VERY recognisable one) is not going to cut it and research isn't really enough either. Again, try get an internship under your bel in a brand name company
Apply to regional / less prestigious offices instead of core ones (ex. NYC). Lowers your competition
Otherwise, network, network, network.
No, you should not bother with a CFA or any other type of certification program.
A master's degree directly out of undergrad will also not be helpful, EXCEPT for the fact that it puts you back in the pipeline and puts you back "on-cycle". You would go in at the same level as a new undergrad. Maybe a small pay bump, but wouldn't count on it.
You are not qualified as an experienced consultant, and would not be for years.
The job you have now makes sense. Finish it out, and pump your boss for contacts at Deloitte and other firms near the end of your time. I would be looking for other employment in parallel
Next Steps to Land at MBB (Originally Posted: 06/22/2013)
I've been lurking around here for quite some time; I finally decided to sack up, join, and post.
My goal is to eventually find my way to MBB. I have done some extensive searches on the site and have never been able to get a solid answer on this in particular.
I graduated last year from a LARGE state school with a BS in Economics and a BA in Business with a concentration in Global Politics. My GPA was a 3.1 with a strong upward trend (3.6 in senior year). I scored a 730 on my GMAT.
Immediately after graduation (August 2012), I started a position training with a blue chip IT company (think IBM, Cisco, HP) in their account manager program learning enterprise networking, data center, etc.. After 3 months of training, I became a contract employee at the blue chip and a full time employee at one of their partners as an account manager. I have done very well in my job (I know this alone means nothing to MBB but at least can show quantitative success on my resume).
I have a couple different options in front of me:
Peace Corps - an experience I've been interested in since college. Would love to experience a different culture and help others. Would only accept opportunity if it were Biz Development
Work for blue chip IT company overseas - either on the finance side or as an analyst within their consulting group
Your suggestions??? Best place to go to eventually lateral to MBB or for top 7 B-School?
I'd really like to members feedback of what they think the best next stop for me is and why. Thank you in advance.
I'd go to the blue chip IT company overseas in your shoes. It just shows a more impressive career progression-from blue chip IT to Internal Consulting in an overseas IT company. You'll also get your international experience-and you can volunteer on the side while there. Your best bet going into either MBB or MBA business schools">M7 is excellent career progression and instances of leadership in this space. Not too familiar with the inner workings of the peace corps so curious as to what types of biz dev opportunities you'd be given while serving.
A couple years of experience overseas and you could try to get on with MBB as an experienced hire or attempt the b-school route-fresh off 2 stints in Consulting type roles, some international experience, perhaps a foreign language?, and solid career progression
I'm no expert, but I imagine your best bet is to build yourself up, get into a killer top-notch MBA school, and pursue MBB from there. That being said, I have no idea what your best option is. Perhaps you have some better options you haven't thought of yet?
bump...anyone else?
If I were in your shoes, I'll go the peace corps -> MBA business schools">M7 B-school -> MBB route. I think that peace corps will be a valuable and unique addition to your resume, and I'm sure will be looked on very favorably by B-school admissions. If you do not want to go to B-school, then try to lateral to MBB asap. You might have to start from the bottom, at the same level as an recent grad, since the reality is that lateraling to MBB at the pre-MBA level is very difficult. Good luck.
only realistic way would be to get into a top mba and get an offer from ocr by nailing the interviews. you have no shot at lateralling into MBB or any other high end strat consulting shop (such as OW, ATK, etc) from your background, without a top notch MBA. I graduated from a top Ivy and MBB only gave interviews to kids who had at least 3.8 GPA. it is incredibly selective.
I appreciate all the input.
One point of contention for IvyGrad (nothing personal; more of a general comment): I'm not sure that I totally understand the thought process behind repeating this line of reasoning over and over again. This idea that unless you graduated from a target school with a 3.8 GPA, the only way to get into MBB is to go to a MBA business schools">M7 B-School is a bit of bullocks.
I get it, that's what the numbers say: the average MBB hire either went to a target undergrad and graduated with a 3.7+ or went to a MBA business schools">M7 B-School.
Here's my take: A lot of people regurgitate that because it's easy. "Why didn't I get an offer at MBB (ibanks, BB, etc)"? The easy answer is: because your GPA, GMAT, non-target, etc. The hard answer, and what I believe to be true is: because, overall, your not an attractive candidate. These guys don't hire based on one number, they hire based on the entire candidate.
That is not to say numbers don't count. The numbers are a way to weed people out since the lot to choose from is so large.
All I'm saying is, let's try to be a little more creative with our answers. I've spoken to a couple family friends that are partners (a couple at MBB and a couple at the Deloittes, Accentures and ATKs of the world). Whenever I'm lucky enough to get a moment of their time, none of them simply say "get into a top MBA program and go through OCR." They all say things like "what opportunities do you have where you can develop skills that are needed to be a management consultant".
Nonetheless, again, I appreciate the advice.
well people say things that are politically correct in real life such as "anything is possible, yes, you can break into MBB or BB IBD with 3.0 gpa from non-target". regardless, you'd realize why people on this site are saying you need a top mba to break into MBB or BB IBD, when you actually try to break into these gigs from your current background without a major inflection point. (top mba) Nothing personal against you, it's just that most people who are non-MBB or non-BB IBD would need to go get a top MBA to get a crack at these gigs.
there are so many qualified people who are covetting for these few jobs. in this economic environment, kids from Harvard with 3.5 gpa are having rough time landing first round interviews at consulting/ IB.
best of luck, though.
I haven't read the whole thread, but your best bet is to go to the foreign company, get at least one promotion, and then go to business school, because you are not going to get in as an experienced hire analyst. The most "unusual" candidates that we hire (this includes everyone who went to an East Coast state school that isn't UVA) are almost never laterals, and our laterals are almost always people who work for a bank, a lower-tier consulting firm, or something else within the professional services realm and who have much stronger grades at much better schools.
If you really, really want to lateral, there's a ~2% probability that you can bust ass at this new company, network your balls off, and get in 3 years from now, but then you'll be too old for being an analyst to make sense in your career trajectory. At that point you'd be wiser to just go to business school and join as a post-MBA.
Not hard to see that you're not close to MBB right now. From your post I can tell you lack the balls and gumption to be a successful management consultant.
"My CEO is never there so I have to be a self-starter." Terrible attitude, squirt. Good luck.
Looking for other ways than top b-school? Well you could become incredibly eminent in your field, publish several books and then lateral in as a partner. You could become a successful politician and develop a network of contacts that would be valuable to a consulting firm, and then lateral in as a partner. You could have some sort of original thought that gains traction in the academic world, get stories about the work published by the mainstream press rocketing yourself to fame, and then apply now and you'd probably at least get an interview.
Or you could go to b-school.
Sure there are lots of other ways to get a shot at an MBB job, it's just that all of them are incredibly unlikely outcomes. With a 3.1 and a 730 on the GMAT, you could get some good work experience and have a solid shot at a top b-school. Then you have a 1 in 4 or so (depending on the school) shot at getting hired at one of your desired firms.
I've worked at the largest office of one of these for several years now and I've never even heard of anyone not coming in post-undergrad, post-MBA or at partner. Does it happen? Probably. Is it common? Not at all.
Evalulating those sets of options, I think you're highest expected value outcome is to go to b-school. If you can't figure that out, you're probably not cut out for this sort of work.
(I'd also point out that if you have family friends that are partners at MBB and they wouldn't even put you in the first round as a favor, it's probably a sign that it's incredibly unlikely you're going to get a job there without some sort of step change in your career trajectory. B-school can be that change.)
I have to agree with IvyGrad. MBB seems even harder than BB IBD to break into from a non-target. As a state schooler with a dual major, ranked #1 in both majors by GPA, and a top 3 BB IBD internship (w/ full time offer), I didn't even get a phone screen from a single MBB.
As someone else trying to get to MBB just wanted to say I also appreciate the blunt advice from guys who are/have been there. Not easy to hear but important to know.
I really appreciate the advice, guys.
Since b-school seems to be the consensus, would moving to a larger (F100) company and working towards a promotion or two be the best experience to get into a top MBA program? Seems like no one thinks the Peace Corps will pay the ancillary dividends I would need to justify doing it. I know I can get a position at a F100 blue chip IT company in either their finance or internal consulting group. What do you guys think is the best move to make to set myself up for the best chance at a top b-school and MBB after?
I think the peace corps isn't a great idea if one of the big justifications for it is that it will help you get a job or get into b-school. It's just not that differentiated or well thought of (in my opinion). If you are genuinly passionate about going and doing that though it won't hurt you--I have a few friends that are now in MBB who did PC before b-school.
As to the F100 question, either job will give you a good shot at a top b-school. Pursue the job that would be more interesting to you--you'll do a better job there (which is what really matters).
My overarching advice here is to not worry so much about positioning yourself for MBB and worry about having a good time, an interesting job, and being a dynamic person. That's what they really care about. Can you solve the problems? Can I put you in front of a client? Do I want to have you in a team room with me?
F100 blue chip IT company in their internal consulting group sounds like the best option. Would give you a good shot at a good b-school, and probably a better chance at a top bschool than their finance team, but that second part is just a guess.
Just out of curiosity, when people are talking about non-target in this context, what are they really trying to say? Because I know that individual MBB offices in regional offices draw from what I might consider national non-targets in that they actively recruit from good regional schools (my MBB class has a few of these, though obviously lots more HBS type people). I wouldn't advise going to one of these schools OVER a top school as your odds still aren't that great, but this type of situation is a lot better than trying to be the one person that gets recruited into the firm from South Carolina Tech in the past decade.
timlambcurry, are you talking for MBA? So I imagine you're asking about Emory, Texas, UCLA, Vandy, etc. Yeah, I think if your heart is dead set on MBB then going to a regional school is a massive longshot, given the number of students that get hired from those places every year. My understanding is that they get hundreds of applications and give out just a few (each firm makes 0-3) offers. I'm not sure I'd want to bet $150k on that. As I'm sure you are aware, even at HBS, Wharton, Kellogg, etc. getting a job at these firms is far from a guarantee.
yeah i was, sorry. I was just trying to highlight the difference between schools that usually are only able to send ~5 or so students a year to MBB total and schools that only manage to send one person every 5 years.
It is really that way, as hard as it may be to believe. For example, the 2013 UG class (between 20 to 30 people) for an MBB in a major office had an average GPA of 3.75. 0 from non-targets, 1or 2 from semi target.
The firm has hired 1 non-target student BA/A/AC in in the past 2-3 years (that's 60-90 BA/A/ACs).
The 2013 UG class for a different MBB had similar stats. Average GPA of 3.7+. 0 from non-target.
And it's not just about numbers. But they have way more than enough kids fromjusy target schools to fill all the spots. (There are a lot more people wkth 3.7/3.8+ than you would think.) So they get to consider the "qualitative" sides AFTER filtering for the stats.
Of course partners will not tell you that it's near impossible for anyone without those qualifications to get the job, just as the firm's website or an HR person wouldn't. But the possibility is very slim.
Pursuing a MBB dream would be npv negative, sorry.
thanks
Internet tough guy alert....
Breaking Into Consulting w/ No Direct Experience (Originally Posted: 08/15/2017)
How can I sell my experience from my sales & recruitment internship to break into Big 4 consulting?
Economics major w/ Information Technology minor. Entering my final year of undergrad and applying for IT advisory positions this Fall with a focus on EY and Deloitte. However, my current work experience is limited to a recruiting and sales internship (commercial/industrial division) with a Top 3 global staffing company, and a digital marketing internship with a Toronto tech startup. Graduating from a Tier 2 school with a 3.2 GPA and great leadership/volunteer experience, specifically within the local startup community and a strong record of achievement in national consulting case competitions.
My challenge right now is working around my lack of direct business/IT work experience going in. I'd appreciate advice on how to position myself for success from recruiters who have made the jump to consulting, or current management or tech consultants who entered the field out of school with no direct experience. Cheers!
Your concentration and minor are in line with what Big 4 recruiters typically look for in an undergrad hire. Go to the campus recruiting events, build rapport with the recruiters, and make a lasting impression. So long as your GPA is above a 3.2 (ideally 3.5), you know how to carry yourself, and have the ability to entertain a conversation you should be golden.
Also, I would brush up on whatever information you can find on the respective companies' website and reference your interest in an industry or service line they offer. This shows that you somewhat have an idea of what you want and have the done some research.
Also, make sure your LinkedIn profile is set up and resume is clean. Leadership experience (clubs, organizations, etc) will help a great deal. Make sure you list them.
Thanks for the tips! How would you suggest is an effective way to prepare for case interviews, from a technical/knowledge standpoint, for a BTA role with Deloitte Tech Consulting?
College Senior trying to break into Consulting (Originally Posted: 12/03/2014)
I am currently searching for a consulting position and was seeking advice from members with more experience than me. I had an interview at one consulting firm and was unable to answer the technicals (no offer). I have two other interviews lined up and have studied the technicals and now feel confident.
My question is what other firms would you recommend applying to based on those I have heard back from?
Protiviti Pearl Meyer & Partners First Annapolis Consulting
Thank you and if you need more information please let me know.
There are large ones(headcount wise) Big 4 (Consulting divisions), Accenture,etc. or look into smaller shops/boutiques.
Vault has a good list of firms for you to look into (Don't take "rankings" to heart): http://www.vault.com/company-rankings/consulting/vault-consulting-50/
Also find out the ones that recruit at your undergrad. Chances are you have a higher chance of securing an interview.
Practice interviewing/cases diligently.
Best of luck.
Thank you for your reply.
I've been going through the Vault Rankings and applying based on that, how I got the Pearl Meyer & Partners interview.
I know Deloitte recruits at our school, but I believe their recruiting is done. On our career site a principal at Deloitte is listed as a potential "mentor" so I should reach out to him and build a rapport.
Wish I started this early, however I was unsure what track I wanted to peruse either Equity Research or Consulting.
Any other advice you have would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
At this point I think formal recruiting for a lot of the large consulting shops is over. Unfortunately they give out a large chunk (if not all) of their offers to candidates who started the process in September/October. If you're already a senior and this is something you really want to do you're going to have to reach out to boutiques and network your way to an interview. Don't count on the online websites to get you anywhere, call/email until you get a response from a living, breathing human.
@"ebbitten"
Yeah I think I am going to have to break in through the boutique route. Which brings me to another question how easy is it to move within consulting?
@"Hugo Stiglitz"
Yeah I'll reach out to the principal at Deloitte and to my alumni network to build a connection with them and move on from there.
This is for Big 4 primarily: Reach out to they key recruiters both from your campus, but also find the recruiter contacts for the ones that handle non-target or off-cycle hires. as many mentioned, its a bit late in the game, but you should reach out to get on their radar. What happens often, is that they host a alot of interviews and offers, and it takes them until January/February to figure out who has all accepted, in which they will reevaluate how many people they have versus their goal. If they haven't met their quota, they will do some off-cycle interviews in the spring to fill out their quota
Knowing the HR and other connects there will be able to get you in touch with the right people at the right time.
@wsonobody
From my impression (and this is 110% hearsay) if you're trying to move "up" in the consulting world its at least as difficult as getting your initial offer was. The reasoning is as follows. Prestigious consulting firms hire most of their people in junior positions fresh from some sort of prestigious university/college. There are far fewer people in the senior positions than junior so they can get everyone they need for the senior positions from the natural narrowing process. They have plenty of applicants for the junior position from sources that they "trust". These sources are easy for the people hiring you to justify to their managers and easy for people who work with securing clients. No one looks down on someone for hiring a Princeton grad. So there's never really a defined entry point for people who've been out and working for a while. This isn't to say that you/people can't/haven't gotten in just that there is not a defined process and the demand is relatively low.
Another thing to consider from the firms point of view is that if McKinsey hires a bunch of people from Accenture and then their clients see the resumes of all of the consultants (which happens some places) the client may wonder why they spent the extra $$$ on MBB. This is ultimately (IMO) why prestigious consultancies care the most about the pedigree of their workers.
I'll reiterate that this is not to say that you can't do it and I'll also say that this is all assuming that by "move within consulting" you meant lateral to a more prestigious firm. You may want to lateral to a similar firm but one that works more in an area that you're interested in or one that is a better size/better geographic location. These things I think would be much easier (though not necessarily easy) to do.
Finally if you're dead set on MBB and you're a senior in college you still have the chance to go get another degree down the road which reopens the OCR door.
Another option to consider is doing a few years in industry then b-school then top consulting firm. A fair number of the consultants that I've spoken with have taken this path.
Seconded, if you can't get in out of undergrad this is where most folks make it happen. You also come in at a noticeably higher pay grade out of MBA.
@"iConsult" @"ebbitten"
Definitely seems like a good play and valuable education background to have.
Also do consultants have equivalent distinctions such as the CFA?
I agree with ebbitten here. I don't know of any consultants who got their CFA; it just isn't generally useful in advisory services. MBAs, however, are super popular among consultants at almost every level.
Advice on how to break into consulting (Originally Posted: 01/06/2017)
Hi First bit about me: Finished undergrad in 2008 and recently completed my Masters. Both in health management sector and that is where I would like to specialize. I have since my undergrad worked in few odd jobs, nothing that great. My grades are good. GPA of around 3.4-3.5. I started applying for jobs with lots of enthusiasm and felt that I should be able to click into some position. Was highly confident. Now 6 months down the line and having only had 2 interviews(both which didn't get past the initial stage), I am left wondering, where I am going wrong and what is wrong with my resume/ skills/ experience. I applied for research as well as consulting. I applied in smaller firms thinking I can work myself upwards. Unfortunately no response. So now, I am back here, seeking advice from various people. I have stories and seen people who with grades as good as mine or sometimes even worse than mine, seem to land up interviews and jobs. I had my resume checked to see, if there is something wrong in the way I present myself, but resume is good quality I am told.
Any advice for someone who is looking to break into health care consulting?
Thanks
What is your specific question? 3.4-3.5 GPA isn't good for consulting, it's average at best, and for MBB too low. At my MBB our soft cutoff is around 3.7. Where did you do your undergrad and masters? The major matters much less than the school pedigree. Are you a target? Semi-target? Non-target? What networking have you done? If you've been twiddling your thumbs for six months it sounds like you're not putting in enough effort.
What previous experience do you have? Are you applying to healthcare specific consulting firms or do you want to work at a general strategy firm with a focus in their healthcare practice? It looks like the latter from your previous threads about Oliver Wyman. Strategy firms will hire you on as a generalist, not into one practice, unless you're on the "expert track".
Typically, expert tracks are for people who are already several years out of school and have a network in that field - sounds like you aren't there just yet.
Where are you currently located? With all due respect, your grammar is weak which leads me to believe that English isn't your first language. Advice will differ based on global region.
Transition from Undergrad to MBB Consulting - Tips? (Originally Posted: 12/24/2015)
answered
Here's a tip: learn how to make a simple decision on your own without needing to consult outside resources.
Seriously. If you cannot figure whether you should have a roommate without asking for tips, consulting is not for you.
Don't hate. Getting perspectives of people who have actually lived it can never hurt him.
Oh come on devildog, what is your deal? This guy has never done this before, what's wrong with asking for some advice from people who have? Who are you to say whether "consulting is for OP" or not because he asked a question on a forum regarding something he/she has no experience with?
If you don't have anything to say to help op, just don't say anything at all or direct op where he should be asking these things.
Do you get some kind of kick out of tearing down the confidence of kids fresh out of (or still in) undergrad?
Monkey Shit
Looking to get into strat consulting (Originally Posted: 05/24/2013)
Here's my resume, critique/destroy it all you want. I already know the big thing against me is I didn't get involved in any school clubs and shit, is that really a huge deal?
EDIT updated with critiques/comments from other thread... Update 2 vs update 3, please let me know what you guys think
A few thoughts (MBB alum):
Clubs: it seems like your volunteer work is strong enough (and leadership-oriented enough) that I would guess the lack of clubs won't be a big issue. This probably varies by firm (McK is incredibly leadership-oriented, from my personal anecdotal experience) and maybe school (if everyone is active in a lot of clubs, you might end up standing out in contrast), but I would think you still have a solid shot.
Overall: There is a lot of content here, but I'd still try to squeeze it to one page (I think you can bump GPA up into the education table with some creative formatting, I'd move your test scores up to that section as well without increasing line for line, and maybe change the "additional" section to list format and see if that does it.
You have a lot of cool jobs that don't fit cookie-cutter molds, so make sure you can speak about them intelligently and focus on the analytical parts of the role and the results of everything you did.
Education: Not sure what additional coursework in MAN is - if I'm the outlier, may not need to change
Unlimited Mobile: I might change "self-sustainable" to "sustainable" - I think self is implied; I'd switch the first and second bullets (not a big deal, but I would read the second as more impressive and showing that you rank them as such can't hurt); I wouldn't call it due diligence unless you are specifically looking at a transaction or major investment.
Support Division:
First bullet is vague on the context of the work - I may just not know, but what is a "Social Media and Web 2.0 option"? If it was about developing a social media presence, make that clear - if it was changing the social media strategy in a material way (reducing risk of information leak from the corporate account post-Netflix, for example), make that clear. Mostly to show that you know the context of the cost-benefit and risk analyses.
Second bullet may read better as: "Researched, developed, and presented strategies..." (if that's what you did - if not, I'd describe the meat of the project rather than try to squeeze in the word strategy); it's unclear whether the third bullet refers to both prior bullets or just the first, so I might clarify or assign savings to each bullet separately.
Hobby Shop:
I think this is the best-written section. I might take a stab at some basic financial metrics as icing, but this is really pretty strong. If you had a gross margin % after the $45k revenue, it would be nice context, or maybe if you had an initial investment amount (starting inventory, maybe?) or something. I might also clarify what kinds of items in the first bullet.
Non-profit Hospital:
First bullet might read better as: "Advised and implemented entertainment-based charity events, raising average donation..."; the second bullet sounds a lot like end-to-end organizing of fundraisers, in which case I might just say organized xx fundraising events resulting in yy donations; if you got any corporate sponsors to donate in-kind, maybe another bullet on soliciting corporate in-kind sponsorship to throw great events at manageable budgets or something; I'd simplify the last point to "Assist charity management with raising over $200k in debt" and if you are specifically responsible for targeting HNW individuals, add ", specifically responsible for soliciting contributions from high-net-worth individuals in the local community" or something
Volunteer Org:
I'd shy away from hour totals, especially without detailing the activity. Generally, you want to show that you focus on results, not labor input, and I don't think 100 hours is a threshold that is particularly important to emphasize. If you have bullets describing specific activities, I think you will get more credit (and nobody will be trying to estimate your hours spent).
Hobbies;
I'd fix the spelling on "traveling" and bump strategy games to the end of the list if not eliminated entirely.
Good luck in the job search process.
Thank you for the review signposts. I've updated my resume taking into consideration your comments. A few things:
1) Education - MAN stands for management, IDK how relevant that is, but I've taken strategy classes in management so I thought it might be relevant?
2) The base formatting of this resume isn't changeable due to university recruiting issues. We use some online system to submit resumes for jobs and all of our resumes have to conform to this standard. For the actual resume I drop onto the company's website, I'll change up the formatting to read better, unless the changes I've made look good?
3) I've changed up my resume a bit, took out the volunteer org I was in and added a small blurb about tutoring. If you could take a glance at my updated resume, I'd really appreciate it
Thanks again for helping me out. Realistically speaking, MBB is probably a crapshoot for me because I'm not in the school's honor program and they recruit almost exclusively from that pool. I was aiming at Deloitte/Booz/Oliver Wyman, more of the tier 2 level, with MBB being a reach. How do you think I fare?
Make sure it fits one page so maybe decrease spacing between each line. Other than that it looks pretty solid. I would also change a font to a more popular one like Times New Roman.
Strange, both of you said to shorten it to one page but on my computer it is one page.. maybe an issue with the margins? I've uploaded it in PDF format with change in font, let me know if theres any new critiques! I really appreciate all the help
updated with critiques/comments from other thread... Update 2 vs update 3, please let me know what you guys think
bump
Breaking into Consulting post-MBA (Originally Posted: 06/28/2014)
Hello All. I'm in the process of learning all I can about management consulting because I think it is the career path for me. Right now I'm finishing up my second year as a Business/Strategy Analyst in a F500 and will be transitioning to a Financial Analyst position at another F500. I hope to work there for two years and then get an MBA to transition to consulting. I expect to be competitive at the UNC/Emory level of schools with a decent shot at Fuqua/Darden based on my grades/GMAT/schooling. Is MBB out of the question with my background and not going to an M7? Do I have a good shot at a Tier 2 firm? Thanks everyone.
There are tons of Goizueta and KF kids at MBB Atlanta. If you're open to working in Atlanta, then you'll have a decent shot if you hustle and do well on the case interviews.
Awesome, that's good to hear. I have family/friends in the south and was targeting working there anyway.
MBB recruits at many schools in that tier. Unlike MBA business schools">M7 schools (approximately), you may have a bit less geographic flexibility though.
Emory is an awesome school, in my opinion.
Break into consulting (Originally Posted: 02/13/2011)
Hi all, first of all this my first post so i might have broken some rules for posting a new post, so i am sorry for that, please correct me if i am wrong.
My background 1. did my bachelor of engineering in IT with with Honors.
Landed a job in big Telecom co and spent 2.5 year with them in their R&D center where developed software and had some experience in team management, client interaction, and mentoring.
Moved to UK there started working for a small company(small mean just 10 people in company) in field of media(much specific post production industry), job profile developing software solution, client interaction no team management, client interactions.
After 3 year at post production industry, i landed a job in top security company, here i am working in their R&D center this is my current job.
In between these jobs started my own company and worked on 3 different project but outcome of those project was not happy ending as my client didn't get funding for their projects bcz of recession( new Product development and i was managing these projects).
So you can say that i have three failure.(but not bcz of my skills.)
so in total i have 5 + year work experience along with my own company experience.
I worked in 3 different countries.
Now I want to break into consulting more specific management consultancy and i am doing my research on different consultancy companies such as BCG, Mck, bain, Accenture, PwC. E&Y list goes on.
and i am interested in AC or consultant job.
and currently from my current job i am fetching more than 50K GBP(80K USD)
My question is which one is best consulting firm for for my experience.
I don't have any MBA right now in my belt but i am planing to do one after 3 year or so.
Please help me out.
Thanks.
Happy endings don't always happen, cheer up and keep at it. Is there a reason why you want to do management consulting? Would you consider yourself a people person, or a shy introvert?
yea that's right....well i am not shy guy...and i think i am good at consulting...but you never know...
Go for Bain or McKinsey.
Do you have any experience with them...can you please put some light.
Thanks
I can't see you getting a consulting job right now with your current work experience. You don't have the experience to get a post-MBA-level job, and you've been working for too long to get a post-college job. I guess you could try to transfer to a firm with an IT practice if you have work or educational experience that makes you a good fit for that, but I don't see that being a great career move, given that you already have a tech job.
Honestly, the time for an MBA might be sooner rather than later. You have enough work experience, and you're looking to make a career change; that's exactly the reason why most people go to business school. If you think you might be able to jump right to a consulting firm, talk to any of your contacts there and see what they say, but business school should definitely be on your short-term rader.
As for which firm you should target, I don't any particular firm would be more receptive to you than the rest. Eventually you might be a good fit for McKinsey's Business Technology Office, given your tech background, but if you assemble the right credentials any firm would be a potential fit.
And if you want more information about all of these firms, use the search box on the top of this page. All of the firms on your list have been discussed ad nauseam.
On a more serious note, I think 2x2 is on the dot. You probably will need to go get an MBA and hopefully land a job through on-campus recruiting. From there, choose from the offers you actually get. There's no point in sweating over which firm is 'best for you' right this moment.
with all due respect you people think that i can't get into consulting without MBA?
Thanks
thanks a lot for all your comments...really helped me...and seriously thinking of getting MBA.
Transition to MBB (Originally Posted: 01/11/2010)
Hi guys,
Think i know the answer to this already but would like some opinions from the pool.
I'm currently a year and a half out of undergrad working for a small strategy consulting firm - high name recognition in its specific field, but not much outside of it. Recently interviewed for an entry-level position with MBB and received an offer to start as though I had just left undergrad - you know the drill, standard contract and all.
Now, I graduated from a target school, went through the process as an undergrad but wasn't successful, the usual story. Without that background, I'd say "Hell yes" to MBB, get out of the small shop, and make the transition. However, given that I have a good school name on my resume and a year and a half experience at a OK (let's call it, oh, 3rd tier?) consulting firm, am I better served by doing my two years and looking to make a transition to a non-consulting field - PE etc.? If I go to MBB at this point, am I essentially burning a year and a half of my working life?
I do intend to go to bschool at some point, and MBB offers a much higher rate of success at HBS/GSB/Wharton than my current firm, so I think that might also be a consideration.
Appreciate any responses.
Do it. Unless the smaller firm you're working for has a niche in the buy-side, it's going to be tough recruiting to PE from there. Bain and McK have good track records in PE because they do a lot of work with PE shops, and thus the analysts have some (albeit limited) experience. If I were you, I would look at the analyst class that just left your firm and see where they went. If you like those exit opps, then don't switch, but if you want something more along the lines of MBB exits, then do. Honestly, 1.5 years isn't that much time to lose in the grand scheme of things. Yes, you'll be older than your MBB class, but you'll have experience that can make you advance much faster if you do well. Overall, I say make the switch.
Go to MBB. 1.5 years is nothing and it will open a lot of doors further down the line.
Go to MBB. The alumni base and your coworkers will be huge assets for you down the line -- that's a great opportunity to see what others have done and assess what you want to do afterwards. Especially at McK and Bain, many analysts/ACs go onto do PE, and the transition is made easier by having those contacts.
If the relationships you have built at your firm are already very strong, then perhaps MBB wouldn't help you that much in this aspect. But keep in mind some analysts/ACs are also older (have taken years off), and 1.5 years isn't that much.
For B School, the acceptance into HBS/GSB depend on which one of the MBB -- PM me if you'd like more details.
Take the MBB offer. At your point in life you are building a CV and MBB is close to the best brand you can get against your name. Plus the networking alum point noted above – do not underrate the multiplying effect this has in addition to college alum as your colleagues exit into other industry roles, etc over the longer term. Its unlikely a boutique can match this in general terms (though may be able to in a particular sector). And as an additional plus, I expect you will learn and benefit from the contrast offered by MBB over your current employer.
Thanks for the feedback guys. Obviously enough that's the way I was leaning, but it helps to have some validation - right now, 1.5 years seems like an eternity so it's hard to force myself to essentially walk away, but at the end of the day MBB is the right choice.
If it makes you feel better, I'm voluntarily giving up two years of my life before taking an MBB analyst role... a year and a half isn't bad!
^lol @ TFA stint
what are u doing bleedblue82?!?! u got the offer now RUN LIKE THE WIND to MBB and never look back lest you be turned into a giant salt shaker and blown away by a monsoon.
consider this: now instead of telling people "I work at a small strategy consulting firm, you probably wouldn't know its name but..." you no longer have to be hang your head ashamed and can now stare deeply into their eyes and whisper "Bain & Company" or mouth slowly "Boston Consulting Group" licking your lips and watch their eyes open wide and mouths gape open with amazement. not to mention all the women from deloitte S&O asking if they can have your manchild.
Take MBB, especially if you want to go to b-school. Losing 1.5 years is nothing compared to what you're gaining.
@ews09: Yeah, I just stuck my offer in the mail. Hard to say no.
@Piper: that's pretty funny, mainly because as much as we all pretend that's not important to us of course we care that people know where we work. We're all tools if we're on WSO...
@ringtailed: Appreciate the spirit of the advice, but... yeah man, you're doing TFA. doesn't quite compare. Enjoy your time there though, and good luck!
TFA rocks, I really admire people who do that for 2 years prior to MBB (I know 2-3 people like that)
Definitely take MBB, losing 1.5 years is nothing; when you are 45, it will seem like a blip
u don't want to regret
bleedblue - How'd you get the initial interview in the first place? Alumni or personal connection, or something? Curious because my story is the same...except without an MBB offer (coming from a target, didn't get MBB in undergrad, about 1.5 yrs into a boutiquish strategy firm)
I had a few friends who worked at this specific firm, and they let me know that recruiting was going on. Submitted my resume through them, heard back the next day - honestly, don't think the connections helped me as much as the work experience on my resume. For MBB, hiring people like me is like getting 1.5 years of training for free.
If you have any friends at these firms, ask them to keep their ears to the ground - you're probably SOL till July/August in terms of the regular recruiting cycle, but you never know what might pop up.
Say you can't get an MBB offer out of undergrad but it's your long term goal. Better to do BB IBD --> MBA --> MBB? (Originally Posted: 01/29/2011)
If one's goal is to be an MBB consultant but doesn't get the offer out of undergrad, would the person's best shot at MBB to do a top BB IBD job for 2 years, get into a top business school, and then try to get into MBB?
Basically, what would MBB prefer from MBA students: applicants with prior consulting experience (ie: Booz/OW/Monitor/LEK/etc.) or prior BB IBD experience?
Also, would BB IBD help one get into a top business school more so than a 2nd tier consulting firm (ie: Booz/OW/etc)?
Banking is always, and perhaps in your case, the best option to segway into consulting later.
One other option would be to go to a fortune company and be a stud. I know several MBA students at my school that got offers after working at a fortune company. I would not recommend going to a 2nd tier consulting firm if your end goal is MBB. While most 2nd tier firms like OW and Booz will send you to an ivy mba program, firms would be hesitant to hire you as you have been groomed as a consultant in a different culture. Also, many 2nd tier consultants decide to go back - places like Booz and OW offer great opportunities and, arguably, a similar, albeit smaller, alumnus program for future exit opportunities. If your end goal is to be a consultant, I would include 2nd tier firms into your pursuit. To have your end goal targeted specifically to MBB is limiting yourself.
From what I heard consulting is much better for business school than banking. Most kids regularly go to top 5 business schools
you're going to need to work more than just 2 years in IBD to get into a top business school... that said, starting out at a BB in IBD can be a great way to end up at a top MBA program. If you can land a job at a solid PE firm or HF after your stint in IBD you'll be a great candidate for mba ("2+2").
Yeah, like IP said, it's hard to roll straight from BB IBD to HWS - you have to do something else before or after to flesh out your application. But coming from consulting, that's not the case - three or four years at Monitor (the point at which you get up-or-outed) is more than enough experience to get into a top school, for example. I do know a couple of people who did BB IBD then either PE or VC and ended up at MBB, but not a lot - let's be honest, most people who start in banking stick with finance.
Neither option is a bad one, and both can lead you to MBB if that's where you want to go. But what I might add to list of things to think about is this: you said you want to do consulting after your MBA. If I had to guess, it's because you think you'll enjoy consulting more or that it's a better fit for your personality/skillset/etc. If you have the chance to do consulting pre-MBA, I would just take it; though it isn't at the firm you want, it is the job you want, and it's no worse than banking for MBA placement. You'll also be surrounded by people with similar long-term goals; if you go into IB, you're not going to be around many aspiring consultants (though there may be a few).
The main factor that determines if a post undergrad job is good for post mba consulting at MBB is just if it gets you into business school. I hear people on forums like this talk about not wanting to hire from other firms, but I don't think thats actually true. Plenty of the post MBA folks at my office were at other consulting firms pre-mba and then jumped while they were in business school, and MBB firms hire from big 4/other consulting firms at more experienced levels to meet specialized needs more frequently than you would expect.
In answer to your original question, going somewhere like Deloitte S&O or one of the strong boutique type firms (OW, LEK, etc) is probably the fastest, way to have a really good shot at a T10 program in 2-3 years, which would give you another shot at MBB recruiting. However, if I were you I would pick something you're interested in maybe doing long term and trying that right now. Might add a year or two to the timeline but could pay dividends later (if you're a consulting lifer, than by all means try out another consulting firm).
its not the best actual career advice, but if youre life is determined by getting into MBB, then the first job should be whatever gets you into an MBA business schools">M7 Business school- this ISNT good career advice, but i guess if its life or death having banking experience won't be a huge factor, and although it might help, slaving away for 2-4 years at a job that you don't like won't do you much good- in addition, to get into a really top business school, you'll have to work at a high quality shop with promotions (think Goldman, MS, JP Morgan), which means you'll be trying incredibly hard for a career you don't really want....
On the other hand, you could work for a T2 consulting shop, or even T3, gain some experience, and go for a 1 year or shortened MBA if you have the stats down the road, and trade up to MBB
breaking into consulting (Originally Posted: 11/22/2011)
hey everyone,
new to this side of the forum. had a question on best way to break into a consulting career.
background - nontarget undergrad 3.0 gpa (i know this is bad). am currently a senior level associate at my current large AM firm (think BlackRock, JPM, PIMCO, Fidelity)
is there a protocol or route i should try taking? aside from going to MBA, do consulting firms every do experienced hire at the analyst level?
if so, suggestions on how i should tackle this. i am assuming a lot of networking involved but with my non target school and low GPA should i consider regional /smaller consulting firms? has anyone come across a good ranking list of respectable regional firms?
thanks
hey man, i don't know much about Consulting personally and how to break in from a non-traditional background, but we just released the latest version of our consulting case interview guide: Make Your Case. The 2012 version has a bonus case, so now there are 11 original practice cases.
My guess is people's advice will be to network at smaller regional consulting boutiques and be very prepared once you get those interview chances.
We don't have a ranking of consulting firms, but we are adding more consulting companies to our WSO Company Database every day. And we just added in the feature for users to give Company Reviews, Interview Insights and Compensation Info. //www.wallstreetoasis.com/wso-company-database
Good Luck, Patrick
bump. anyone else have comments?
Hey, TimeTraveler. You are asking for regional shops, but fail to mention where you are located. Perhaps pointing that out would help. Moreover, you should try to provide us with more information about your qualifications, such as, major, how is your undergrad ranked (not all non-targets are the same), etc.
I managed to get an offer with a non-traditional background, though my academics where in order. I must also admit that I don't know anyone with that kind of GPA that has applied to these firms; however, I think that it should not kill your chances. Again, without any other information is hard to tell how you should approach this, but I don't believe that GPA alone means it is impossible to get the interview.
Others will argue that they would rather take one of the hundreds (or thousands) of applicants that do not have that blemish in their application; nevertheless, networking could still potentially get you that interview. When I say networking, I do not mean that calling a bunch of people or even meeting with them will automatically get you an interview. You need to have other things in your background that indicate that you are as smart and capable as the rest of the candidates. You need to strike the people you meet as XYZ company material.
Breaking into consulting/advisory (Originally Posted: 06/24/2012)
New to the site, but I've done enough browsing on here to know any post involving accounting and Big 4 audit is likely gonna get crushed, but I'll try anyway...
I'm an undergrad student at a public Florida university studying accounting. I didnt do much research in high school, and didnt know about target schools and all that, so I was always under the impression I'd be able to choose between a finance type career or accounting. Now I know in my situation, I'm pretty much stuck with accounting.
I have a couple of hopeful career paths in mind. The two most achievable ones seemingly would be to go for Big 4 audit, and either jump to industry after a few years or go into private practice as a CPA.
But I just want to know, do I have any chance of either going to consulting after a few years at a Big 4, or somehow breaking into a non-top tier consulting firm, or maybe advisory at Big 4? Would doubling up with finance and accounting help at all? I'm assuming it wouldnt because I'm not at a target school.
Any help would be great, thanks.
--Art Vandelay, Importer/Exporter
But since all you do was accounting how do you know consulting is right for you?
Did you have any interest at university regarding consulting? Did you tried it? Sometimes we want something becuase we think that it would be good for us but not necessarily this is the case.
Regarding transfer from audit to advisory I think this is doable. I know some people who have done that. All you need to do is to show some skill and desire but sometimes when you transfer from audit to advisory you loose your grade and you could start at the lower level that your audit job would promote you to.
Best luck anyway!
I'm still in undergrad, so I have no experience in either field. All I can go by is classes and what I've read on various forum, articles, etc., describing each field. From that it seems to me consulting is more enjoyable. Again, I'm going on zero experience, so who knows.
ValuationGURU, thank you for the information. I've heard people say that its very doable, and then I've heard others say its damn near impossible. I guess it varies for each person/career.
--Art Vandelay
Making the switch from audit to advisory is fairly easy as long as you are tops in your group. Quite a bit transaction advisory work requires a CPA and audit experience. Accounting is a good skill set to have and if you are able to network effectively you should be able to make the move to consulting. I am not sure on the time frame for the switch. I know several auditors turned consultants.
Ah, one thing I always liked about the Big 4 in Germany: audit, tax, or advisory - you can get into each path right from the start just as easily and don't need none of that "target"/"non-target" crap. If you're good (and your GPA indicates that, as even a 3.5 is hard to get at a public school), you get the interviews and ultimately can get the job.
EDIT: computer must've glitched out here, I'll post my reply underneath to the recent comments.
I don't know how things are in the US and other parts of Europe but I''ve heard that advisory maybe sometimes inferior to audit in following parts:
Probably getting into typical management consulting firm would be a better option?
Certainly, I'd rather do typical management consulting than advisory, I just figured advisory may be easier to get into, given the fact that the Big 4 all have advisory branches, whereas Deloitte is the only one with a full on consulting branch.
I'm entering my junior year this upcoming fall, and have a 3.92 overall GPA, 4.00 Accounting GPA. From what I've read, the summer between junior and senior year is the time to [try to] get consulting internships, as well as summer leadership programs at the Big 4 firms, so that will be my aim for the upcoming summer.
The plan now is to get an MAcc to fulfill the CPA requirements, but obviously that would change if I got a full time consulting offer. I just like to have as many options as possible, as I'm sure others do too.
I feel as though my resume is pretty good at this point in my college career. I have had an internship at a local CPA private practice, and little odds and ends jobs, but my main component on it currently is a Managing Porter job at a used car dealership. Obviously the industry isnt exactly consulting or accounting, but I did it because I was in a management role. Here's to trying for consulting internships this summer, as well as Summer Leadership Programs at the Big 4!
--Art Vandelay
Have you tried getting an internship at a BDO/Grant?
I have not. Again, I was under the impression that most of this takes place for the summer after junior year. That seems to be the case with most of these companies. I did a quick browse on BDO and that seems like the case there as well. This year I'm going to apply for several Consulting internships for the summer, as well as all the SLPs that the accounting firms have.
Another question, will it "look bad" that I'm waffling between Consulting and Audit? For example, if I get an internship at a consulting firm, and then ultimately interview for an audit postion (or vice versa), will it look like I wanted to do consulting and couldnt cut it, and therefore settled with audit?
Side note, great responses so far. Thanks for the help. Very quick responses, I wasnt expecting that coming from the CC business forums.
--Art Vandelay
I think the accounting firms look at sophomore interns as well. I am not 100% on that, but I thought I saw postings for those positions a few years back. Anyway, I think as long as you have a solid reason for why you are choosing audit and not consulting, then you should be fine. Just don't have a lame excuse.
As far as I know from recruiters, you intern one year before you look to get a full time offer. I.e., if you plan to do five years, you intern between senior year and the masters program. So I'm still a year from that.
As far as telling them why I'm not going to consulting, that makes sense. Thanks for the help again. With consulting firms, I'm going to be at a major disadvantage because it doesn't appear that any of them recruit on campus (Big 4 does). Hopefully, I can just apply without going through the on campus recruiting. If not, I'm hoping to find a MAcc program at which they may recruit, at least a few mid tier ones. I'm considering Baruch.
--Art Vandelay
I have never heard of consulting firms hiring from an accounting masters program? I may be wrong though, just doesn't seem right. I think your best bet is to do audit for a couple years and move from there. Or try to maneuver yourself on to an advisory team.
I'm sure you're right. And I'm sure it'll be easier to try to transition once I've done audit for a few years considering I'm not at a target. Thanks again.
--Art Vandelay
Also, considering I'm at a non-target, would double majoring in Finance have any sort of positive, worthwhile effect? Thanks
--Art Vandelay
consulting = staff augmentation (scut work) and/or helping your client do/say things internally/externally that are unpalatable.
unless you immediately grasp this your career in consulting is going to be very frustrating.
Are you saying that its not all its cracked up to be? Not exactly sure what you mean by this
--Art Vandelay
i am saying that they claim it is about coming up with smart ideas and producing "value" but believe you me, your client is rarely going to need a 23 year old kid telling them how to run a business they have been running for decades.
Haha, makes sense. My main goal is to go into private practice as a CPA. But I just like to have my options open, and management consulting seems better than audit.
--Art Vandelay
Yet, companies, for years, have been hiring these 23 years in a multibillion dollar practice. My university hired McKinsey with a whole host of 23 year olds (albeit with some old guys too) to develop a new strategic plan. Almost three years later, my university was ranked in the top ten undergraduate business schools in the nation.
They add value, trust me.
Part of the reason I want to get out of this game is that we are glorified industrial spies and tools for internal political bickering. Your McKinsey example falls into the latter category because what happens in turnaround scenario is that faction A stovepipes specific data to McK to create the plan that it wants. We never get all of our data from third party sources alone. Then faction B is silenced because McK with its mighty reputation says we ought to do it this way.
Please, if you are still in school, do not muddy the waters with your incomplete knowledge. My intention is not to be cynical and nasty, but part of the reason I want to leave the field is that it is far, far from what they sell it as. You can still have a fulfilling career as a consultant selling this kind of "value" but if you do NOT get hip to the program soon and understand what you are REALLY selling it will be frustrating for you.
Regarding the move to advisory at Big4, I would say it is definitely possible, as long as you had some finance training in your curriculum. Then you could move quite easily to non-top-tier management consulting. Best of luck!
Thanks for the help. So would a double concentration in accounting and finance be favorable? I've heard from others that it shows that you arent really quit sure what you want to do.
Entry level/junior/analyst consulting program (Originally Posted: 07/17/2012)
Hey guys, I am interested in getting into consulting. I have noticed that many of the firms have entry-level programs that basically train you for 6 months- 2 years. I'm wondering, are these programs usually filled strictly by college-grads that were recruited in their senior years, or is it possible to get in after a year of work experience.
I majored in poli sci and economics, and had a decent gpa. I also had several internships in different backgrounds/industries (an alum from my school I tracked down who works at Booze Allen said this was good; showed hustle/experience in different industries, etc). The place I’m at now had a division of healthcare consulting that I was going to try and move into in the future, but it was sold like a week before I started. It is still a good company though, so I definitely want to learn as much as I can and gain as many transferable skills as possible. (On a side note, there is also tons of online learning offered; excel, SQL, SAP, Oracle stuff, etc. Which programs do you think are most important to know/would help out my chances)
I guess this is the easiest place to come for any advice on the subject. So do you think it would be a good idea to continue here, gain relevant business experience, and then apply for one of these 'entry-level' 'junior-consultant' type programs in the fall/winter, or am i wasting my time? I was looking at Accenture, PcW, Deloitte, IBM.. I hope this isn’t a retarded question lol.
Honestly, get all the big ERP skills and SQL you can....excel and access help too when confronting a whole lot of messy data. ERP systems just because they are big business.
Remember, technical skills are great but they will want to see experience managing change, project managing, solving problems for your area etc.
Also, we're called PwC ;) So Quality Assurance checks are big too....nothing goes in front of the client with a mistake, because if you made a mistake there how can they trust your analysis.
And, it never hurts to reply when the right jobs come up at any of those firms. Good luck.
Breaking into consulting (Originally Posted: 08/13/2013)
I'm interested in consulting, but I have an untraditional background and thought someone could give me advice about my chances. I graduated from a T10 liberal arts college in 2007 with a 3.53 GPA. I'm now 28. After graduation, I went straight into a MA in history and did well. I worked as a research database cataloger at an Ivy for a year after that, and when funding ran out, I took a similar job at another well-known university library. I have several publications in my field of study on my resume. I ended up in teaching high school because I needed the money, and I now teach history and Latin at a good Northeast prep school. Most employers don't see my job experience as tactile enough to be transferrable in the business world, and that's been a real issue.
I'm interested in consulting for several reasons, but don't know how to break in. I have a strong network to work with, but no business/management experience on my resume. Given that I have a unique background, I'm 28, and I'm coming out of a non-MBA/MSF masters, what are my chances of success? Where would my background make me an attractive candidate, or at least not hurt me? I have summers off, which means internships are also an option. Thanks.
Go to business school.
I'm sorry, but you will probably need to go to business school. You might have a shot of landing an interview if you have a personal connection that will really pull for you, but the chances are slim.
Think about it, why would a firm want to hire you? You have zero experience with anything business-related and are way too old to start fresh with the undergrad hires....so where would you fit in?
Maybe you could spin your teaching experience into something related to education administration, that could indicate some management/leadership skills but it's a stretch. Keep in mind that consulting is tough to break into, even with all the right qualifications. If you don't want to business school (which is really the best bet), I think getting some other kind of business experience (marketing/pr/start up come to mind) needs to happen first.
Yea, that's exactly what I thought, but not having business related experience will also keep me out of business school, so is there really a solution? My understanding is that I have to go to a T15-20 for my MBA to really matter, and I'd have to do it full time. Without business experience, there's no way I'd get in, and I'd have a tough time getting internships once I'm there for the same reasons.
Who told you that?
I saw several people say this on another thread. I was told that the top business schools put a lot of weight business/management experience as a prerequisite to admission, just like the GMAT or GPA.
Would I be able to get around this with a high GMAT score?
Yes a high GMAT score will help tremendously.
Business schools want diversity, something you can bring to the table. For example, I pulled Wharton's incoming class profile - http://www.wharton.upenn.edu/mba/admissions/class-profile.cfm. 14% of students had non-typical pre-MBA experience.
What skills do I need to break into consulting/ER? (Originally Posted: 03/02/2014)
I'm currently working on my PhD in life sciences and I've recently found out that consulting or ER appears very interesting to me. So I want to give it a try. However, I have no business background whatsoever. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me what kind of skills or things I can start learning by myself as I am trying to complete my PhD at the same time. I know there's too much for me to learn but any particular set of finance knowledge, statistics or coding skills that people might find valuable for someone from hard sciences? Anything else you would suggest for me to prepare for breaking into consulting/ER? One last question, is PhD necessary if I decide to go down this road, maybe a master is enough? Appreciate any advices!
anyone, please?
I can't comment on ER, so the first consulting tip I have is to narrow down your problem to get a solution (ask the ER forum about ER and this forum for consulting).
Why don't you tell us what type of consulting you'd like to do, and why you want to go into consulting? And maybe a little about your background in the sciences and working?
TT
Thank you Tyler. I'm in pharmaceutical sciences and works on biologics like peptides. I love sciences and doing research, but do not exactly like the life style of a scientist. I want to do something that involves more interaction with people. After doing a little bit of search, I feel like consulting is my thing. To leverage my science background, I am looking at strategy consulting boutiques that focuses on healthcare, life sciences and pharma/biotek. I'm not sure this is enough but again, I just want to make use of some leisure time to start learning something and get exposed to the field earlier before I actually need to find a job.
The firm I'm joining is in that space, the commonalities for people there are a top tier MBA, masters/PhD or undergrad. Everyone has an interest in tackling problems and business in general. There isn't a single skillset that is most important, I can't code, but I've done research (basic science) and had prior IB SA stints.
My first suggestion is read up on business in general, I like "The Ten Day MBA" it's an easy read and will give you a decent background. Drucker has a lot of great stuff, the HBR Essentials series is tremendous. To start getting ready for case interviews David Ohrvall's "Crack the Case" was great, also look at Case in Point and the Vault Guide. Stats and coding aren't terribly important, beyond what you already likely know.
I agree with guyfromct, you certainly should try to find out more about consulting, and the different firms. But you should also come up with a good clear list of what you're looking for. You said you don't like the lifestyle of a scientist.
To that, I would think you should make a list of what you are looking for in a job or a firm. In particular from a lifestyle choice. Is it work-life balance, working on a team, compensation? What is driving this decision. Knowing what you want from a job is helpful when you start looking at what firms are out there, and what skills different firms prioritize.
Based on your research of the different firms (try WetFeet Guides, ManagementConsulted.com, and FirmsConsulting.com) to get going, and what you are looking for in a job you should be able to narrow down the field of firms you are looking for. If you are strictly looking at very small boutiques, then you may want to reach out and contact a few of them just asking in general what skills or competencies they look for in their consultants.
Once you know this, you can come back here with a few ideas of what will work for you (decision criteria), and what firms meet those and we can give you more information on that or consulting in general.
TT
Thank you very much guyfromct and Tyler. I will look into the stuff you talked about. Appreciate your help!
Is this a viable plan to get into consulting? (Originally Posted: 09/27/2016)
Currently a rising senior in engineering.
I am hoping to land summer BA and eventually a full time role at MBBD. Couple things though, I am from a non-target and have a gpa of 3.45.
I figure in order to compensate for that, maybe I can build my resume up with f500 companies. So far I have I have one company from last summer and currently co-oping at another. I am already looking for a company for spring 2017 to add on to my resume.
By the time I return to school, I figured having 3 -4 f500 companies on my resume would be advantageous when it came time to applying for the MBBD positions.
Am I dreaming? Will this work against me in the long run due to the fact that i might been seen as a job hopper? Has this sort of approach ever been taken? If yes, has it ever worked before?
Doing multiple internships will not make you seem like a job hopper. With 3.45 AND non target MBB as well as most of T2 will be very difficult so I would network hard. having multiple people at each firm go to bat for you will be vital. As for Deloitte, they are much more lenient on GPA but networking will be important assuming you aren't in a consulting club at your school that funnels to big 4 (pretty common at state schools).
Fortune 500 roles look great to consulting firms so your strategy in terms of internship selection is on point
Getting into M/B/B Post-graduation (Originally Posted: 03/13/2007)
Assuming I went to a great school and have very high GPA and top-notch internships, how hard is it to get into Mck, Bain, or BCG through their online application? Does your application pretty much go into a black box, or will they take the time to look at it? I.e. if you don't apply during fall recruiting of your senior year because you want to do something else for a year, is it pretty much impossible to join the analyst class by applying through their websites the following fall?
What is the general distribution of analyst classes across regions within these three firms. I.e. how many analysts are in, for example, the San Francisco office of Mck vs. the New Jersey office?
i got called back for an interview within 48 hours of submitting my application through the bain website. the issue with the website isn't whether they read your resume; it's whether they are actually recruiting at the time you submit.
Getting into consulting - Top consulting with a 2.6 (Originally Posted: 11/02/2009)
Hi all,
I was just wondering if it's possible to get into a top consulting firm with a 2.6 GPA but an MBA from HBS.
Through some unique NPO experiences and a post-grad diploma and pure luck, I got accepted into HBS.
I guess my question is whether an MBA will cover a low undergrad GPA. Do they still ask for undergrad GPAs in MBA recruiting drives?
wow i am impressed if you really did get into hbs with a 2.6
if your past accomplishments were good enough to get you in at hbs with a 2.6, then you probably have a shot at top consulting
i dont know anyone at MBB with a 2.6....but then i dont know anyone at HBS w that GPA either
your experiences (especially recent ones) speak to your abilities more than a grade point average from undergraduate so you have a great shot at top firms. They may still want an undergrad GPA but they will definitely take another look since you will have a Harvard MBA on your resume.
Was your undergrad in Engineering?
I've seen minimum GPA reqs for top consulting firms fall to 2.80 only for engineering majors.
So if that is the case then I would not worry about the GPA too much.
More recent experiences carry more weight, so having HBS on your resume helps quite a bit, but the low GPA will raise quite a few questions about your problem solving ability. Depending on how long you've been out of college, you might be able to get away with not having your college gpa on your resume. Regardless, make sure to play up the real world problems you've tackled in your resume, and have a good reason for the low college gpa that doesn't communicate that you lack intellectual capacity or the ability to focus on things you may not find that interesting.
5 Things That Will Make Your Consulting Resume Stand Out - http://bit.ly/S6JIY
At school, or even beforehand, get involved with a pro bono consulting project or in addressing some other problem/opportunity that you can talk about during the interviews.
Gotta Mentor www.GottaMentor.com Connect to the Advice & People You Need to Achieve Your Career Goals
College Senior trying to get into consulting (Originally Posted: 02/12/2011)
I go to a non-target school and I've been trying to get into consulting since August and have had no luck. I'll be graduating soon and have a job held down as a IT engineer at HP, but who really wants to do that?
That job is basically my safety net for consulting. So far I've been using this format:
EDIT: RAZUME now working
EDIT: http://www.razume.com/documents/18839
After talking to a consultant at Accenture he revised my resume to look like this: EDIT: http://www.razume.com/documents/18838
but still no luck.
I'm willing to get into all the consulting firms many people here knock down (Accenture, Deloitte, PwC). However, I don't want to settle at a boutique.
Can anyone help me out? maybe suggest which one is better or if I need to reword anything?
Thanks in advance
desperate bump...changed the links to razume
How to break into consulting? (Originally Posted: 09/04/2012)
I'm currently working in corporate finance but find my work to be unchallenging and regret not pursuing consulting when looking for jobs my senior year. I'm looking to make a move into consulting but I'm not sure how to best focus my energy. It seems like most firms hire college seniors or MBA grads exclusively. Given my stats, what would the best course of action here? What firms should I look at? Should I network like crazy? Just apply and see what happens? Go to grad school? Give up?
Here are my stats:
Funny enough I am in an extremely similar situation. Great grades, great school, great experience, working for Fortune 50 company in Corp. Fin. but entirely unsatisfied. Weighing a transition now vs. waiting to get an MBA so I would also appreciate any advice if someone has been in a situation like chocotaco and myself
Go for the MBA. And I'd actually say - okay grades, below-average school for consulting, not sure about experience.
Have a think about why you want to get into consulting because when you interview as an experienced hire, they will vet you hard. I spent a year and half corporate law and just accepted my consulting offer. I went to an off-target school. I net-worked my a** off and got in the door with two great firms. I think with your grades and experience and the right sponsor, you could make into a first round int. Talk to some senior guys at your company now, they' most likely know a consultant or two. Schedule a "chat" where you're able to stroke their ego while asking good questions. An MBA is not a free ticket into mid six figure salary land. It is, however, a nice ride into mid six figure debt.
advice on breaking into mbb (Originally Posted: 10/19/2012)
.
Search function is your friend.
Xepa is right...this topic has been covered extensively covered before.
If you know you want to do management consulting, then clearly consulting internships would be a better fit. If you are truly interested in banking, then feel free to try it out. MBB respects brand name internships, and a BB internship would definitely qualify. Stop searching for the "right" steps (aka some formula that everyone unanimously believes is right) to get to what you perceive to be your dream career and do what interests you at the highest level possible.
Break into Consulting Options. (Originally Posted: 10/24/2012)
So short story. I go to super non target. UT Dallas. Not really any real recruiting to Consulting. A little not too much. Transferring to McCombs doesn't look too great due to (Dual Credit Hours in HS).
Would it be possible to get a Consulting gig from a MS in Finance or MPA? Especially from McCombs? ( I am looking for work in Texas) Trying to get ideas down! Would going to UT Austin and getting Masters be best option? This of course all assumes that I can't manage something from UT Dallas which isn't fully ruled out. Thanks.
Or is it possible or known to for someone to dabble in Big 4 and even some Corporate Finance then go to MBA and able to obtain Consulting job post-MBA? I just need a tad bit of what would be best pursuit.
UT Dallas is a good school, but the Jindal SOM is completely focused on its academia and research, not growing career opportunities for its students. Here's an insider's opinion -- The school is just not doing what they should be to capitalize on its solid academic programs and increased standing in the rankings to build more corporate recruiting relationships. This is not likely to change until there is a major leadership change at JSOM. Rumor has it that Deloitte is going to start recruiting at UTD in the near future, but I will believe it when I see it. I have a few friends who got into Big 4 advisory roles from the MBA program, but the CMC did not help them with that.... they spent a lot of blood, sweat, and tears doing whatever networking they could on their own. By "consulting", I assume you are talking about some sort of financial advisory practice or S&O practice?
If consulting is where you want to be, and you are still in a position to transfer, than I would transfer. You're investing in the rest of your life. The right starting point is important, so don't worry about losing some credit hours on a transfer. Going to UT or A&M or Rice will give you a much better shot at recruiting opportunities. SMU's Cox might be an option, but a very expensive one, and I just don't know if they are consistently bringing consulting firms in-house to recruit.
I don't think an MSF or MPA is going to be as attractive for an advisory role as an MBA would be. MPA would work for audit or assurance, but probably not advisory. Again, it will really come down to who you know. If you can finesse your way into an interview, then anything is possible, but the JSOM's CMC is just not in a position to cultivate interview opportunities in that space right now.
FYI, UTD has maybe the best internal audit program in the country. UTD and LSU are consistently the best in terms of IA. I'm sure you know this. If you do not care what type of "consulting" you do, and you're OK with doing audit work, than you should easily be able to move into a Big 4 firm with an audit education from UTD.
Good luck.
Getting into Consulting - Current finance and econ dual major (Originally Posted: 01/14/2013)
I am currently a Finance and Econ dual major. I enjoy the markets and the ideas of finance, but I have noticed myself more interested in the consulting aspect of things. I noticed it during my interview for a SA at BB. I was curious what it is like trying to get an entry level consulting job. Is it like banking where typically the internship is the way in? Or could I use me SA position and add it to resume while still attempting to get into consulting. As a 28 yr old (spent 8 years in Marines) I do not have the luxury of just hanging around waiting.
Anyone else go from banking internship junior year to entry level consulting? Would love some thoughts. I am hoping to attend a conference day at Deloitte.
I'm also interested if anyone has experience with this.
I wouldn't consider a consulting internship to be a prerequisite for landing a FT consulting position. Went from a S&T internship to consulting FT... Throughout the interview process, I never felt that not having a consulting internship put me at a disadvantage.
PM me. I know a cavalry officer who did something similar, albeit from MBA.
Two things:
1) Unlike investment banking, most of the full-time employees at M/B/B consulting (and I imagine other firms as well, but not sure) come from full-time recruiting rather than internship direct hires. So don't worry if the internship doesn't work out this time around.
2) Bulge bracket investment banking internships to M/B/B consulting is fairly common. I know many who have done this (and planned to do it from the moment they started in investment banking). Try to get a return offer, since it helps, but a lot of the skills (attention to detail, work endurance, etc) are well-regarded in consulting.
Surferbarney (and any other vets that read this), I'm also a former enlisted Marine in his late-20's. I'll be joining MBB full-time in the fall and did not have a previous consulting internship. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions about the process or to just chat about our experiences.
Breaking into consulting with my background? (Originally Posted: 04/03/2013)
Here's my situation.
I am currently studying in the University of Waterloo in the Accounting and Finance program, graduating in Dec. 2014. My GPA is probably the equivalent of ~3.6. I have completed 2 internships with Big 4 in Toronto in Audit, and have two more coming up in Jan 2014.
Only a few people at my school manage to snag internships at MBB, and FT offers are hard to come by. I really feel that I am a better fit for management consulting, but I don't have a clue how to start paving the path.
How do I leverage my 8 months of Big 4 audit experience into a consulting internship?
Start by networking. Who are the people that snagged internships at your school? Can they help you or put you in contact with some people that can?
Get working on your resume and cover letters. See what the regular recruiting cycle looks like at your University (if it's a target).
Practice Cases. Start by reading some case books, then move to live cases with other people. Value quality over quantity and try to see if you can find some contacts in the industry to help you out.
Try finding a case partner.
Getting into upper level consulting firms (Originally Posted: 04/05/2013)
What are my chances of landing an internship at upper level consulting firms considering my background?
I am a rising junior, double majoring in Political Science and Economics. My cummulative GPA is 3.5 Major GPA 3.94 and have a bit of graduate coursework. I also have heavy experience with statistical packages and various modeling techniques. This summer, I will be an intern at a lower end analytic company doing qualitative and quantitative research/analyst for F500 clients. My school is a non-target school as well and don't have alumni working at MBB btu do have a couple in Deloitte and such.
Your odds are poor, network and kill it at your internship. MBB will be almost impossible.
2 years of experience, trying to break into consulting (Originally Posted: 06/15/2013)
Hey guys,
I have two years of experience and I'm trying to either break into consulting or get into a good MBA program. Let me know what I can change in my resume to improve it. Thanks!
Updated link (changed interests): http://www.razume.com/documents/31698
I noticed that one of your interest includes wet shaving. I think you are golden.
u are weird.
change those interests zomg
agree with new interests
I guess if that's the worst thing in there then I'm doing okay, haha. I posted a new version with some more "mainstream" interests per your suggestions. Any other constructive criticism?
what kind of large state university?
you better be ready to talk about those frequent flyer miles. we're experts at that game.
strong.
Thanks for the input so far...anything else?
What were the "unique" interests? These new interests are so common and boring.
Strong resume. Get rid of the italics in hours/weeks, though.
Good point with the italics. I'll change that for sure. Thanks!
Previous interests section was as follows: Cars, collection frequent flyer miles, unique socks, wet shaving, Blu-ray movies
On a related note, I want to add something to my interests about my resale hobby/business. I buy/resell stuff all the time when I see arbitrage in the market. I justify my blu-ray collection by buying and selling other blu-rays so my net cost for the entire 250-movie collection is effectively $0. I've sold TV's, video game consoles, clothes, cell phones, toys, computers, and more. I can't think of a good way to succinctly put that into my interests..."consumer goods resale" was my first thought but I'm sure there's a better way to describe what I do.
Just call it "hustling."
I do (did) similar things. I just left it off my resume and never bring it up in interviews. It's too hard to describe and you can end up sounding shady/weird if you try to explain it.
Yeah, good point. I think I'll just leave it off. Thanks!
Anyone have any more changes I should consider?
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