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Hilarious.

JCP appears to be a disaster that continues to get worse. TGT was a bust. HLF bet could turn against Ackman as well. His GGP investment was great, but that was sourced by one of his junior guys, not him (rumor has it the guy got $20m at ~26/7). Could we be seeing Ackman's status unravel? Will his investors begin to leave?

I've personally heard of how he deals with management teams and boards and find the stories repulsive. People on the buyside typically don't like him very much and not because they're jealous. I'd imagine that this behavior doesn't go unpunished forever.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-24/icahn-say...

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Comments (47)

  • BlackHat's picture

    I hesitate to make a broad claim like this, but I thought this was widely understood by most in the value space. Ackman has a big head and thinks that whatever his first impression of a business is must be the right one. He had no problem taking credit for the GGP play as loudly as possible, and his approach to activism hasn't exactly yielded much fruit for the most part. In the value activism space we consider him somewhere between a John Paulson and a Kim Jong Il. High profile successes combined with a stubborn disposition that kills all productivity.

    But let's not try and pretend the HLF bet is the reason why Icahn hates Ackman. This isn't the first time they've come to blows.

    On a marginally related note, I wanted to post a thread earlier (but decided against it) trashing a guy I've loved for a long time: David Einhorn. I know in the wake of the last Greenlight letter it's shortsighted to say he's just not as good as I thought he was, but it's actually a pattern of having a track record of long positions that are inconsistent with the reputation he's been given as one of the great "value guys" out there. Sure, he is, but his love for Apple, Marvel, Seagate, and even General Motors has had me at least a little bit puzzled. And did I forget gold? Call me old school but gold is pretty much off limits to the Buffetologist in me. His short book is one I've always appreciated but why hadn't he covered on GMCR by now? You can't ride that business to zero...

    Too much coffee today, I apologize.

    I hate victims who respect their executioners

  • West Coast rainmaker's picture

    BH -

    Agree with your analysis. And they were involved in a lawsuit as recently as last year. Ackman's definitely a smart guy, but his ego gets in the way. JCP really is the perfect example. Once the initial turnaround failed, I think he should have cut his losses and sold. His catalyst fell through, his thesis was wrong. But now he is on CNBC promoting the store. Even if it does bounce back, the CAGR on that investment will likely be inferior to just having bought SPY.

    As for Einhorn, the gold bet really baffled me too. I think most value managers hate QE, but they don't load up on gold. Not a fan of the CMG short either, honestly. But his returns are decent enough and relatively consistent, unlike Ackman's.

    Investors get burned when they venture outside their field of expertise. Sometimes it's smart to deviate, but any successful manager should watch for style drift. Hell, it even applies to PAs. Almost all of my investment losses are attributable to instances where I invested outside my area of expertise. The market is too competitive to expect high returns with poor knowledge of a given space.

  • dm1992's picture

    Saw the video- don't agree with Icahn. Doesn't seem to be anything wrong with Ackman's public denouncing of Herbalife. It's very similar to what Einhorn did with Allied. If a company is engaged in illegal activities, a short seller who recognizes that before anyone else should be able to inform the SEC of this and profit from it. Nothing unsavory about it, and it's even more admirable that he's pledging to donate his personal profits to charity.

  • In reply to BlackHat
    kyleyboy's picture

    BlackHat:
    why hadn't he covered on GMCR by now? You can't ride that business to zero...

    Too much coffee today, I apologize.


    I think that his track record of pulling out of Shorts too early and losing money, only to watch them go to zero a year after bcuz he simply couldn't stomach the losses is part of the reason here. I think he made the mistake with GMCR big time. GMCR is actually a good company, maybe the accounting was bad but the product was great. I love GMCR products. Allied on the other hand, was horribly mismanaged and didn't provide a good service. CMG is the same way. I don't agree with his longs in Seagate, apple is understandable, a lot of guys fucked up on that one. Seagate is a slowly dying company imho unless it focuses more on mobile. Which is all cloud based anyways. Cloud is gonna kill HDrives entirely when internet plans improve. As PC becomes less prominent Seagate will as well. This is happening fast.

    I feel the same way about Ackmans retarded bet on JCP.

  • Ichan's picture

    Ichan got sued by this guy

    It's not about the money. It's about the game between people.

  • In reply to BlackHat
    Unforseen's picture

    BlackHat:
    I hesitate to make a broad claim like this, but I thought this was widely understood by most in the value space. Ackman has a big head and thinks that whatever his first impression of a business is must be the right one. He had no problem taking credit for the GGP play as loudly as possible, and his approach to activism hasn't exactly yielded much fruit for the most part. In the value activism space we consider him somewhere between a John Paulson and a Kim Jong Il. High profile successes combined with a stubborn disposition that kills all productivity.

    But let's not try and pretend the HLF bet is the reason why Icahn hates Ackman. This isn't the first time they've come to blows.

    On a marginally related note, I wanted to post a thread earlier (but decided against it) trashing a guy I've loved for a long time: David Einhorn. I know in the wake of the last Greenlight letter it's shortsighted to say he's just not as good as I thought he was, but it's actually a pattern of having a track record of long positions that are inconsistent with the reputation he's been given as one of the great "value guys" out there. Sure, he is, but his love for Apple, Marvel, Seagate, and even General Motors has had me at least a little bit puzzled. And did I forget gold? Call me old school but gold is pretty much off limits to the Buffetologist in me. His short book is one I've always appreciated but why hadn't he covered on GMCR by now? You can't ride that business to zero...

    Too much coffee today, I apologize.

    The fact that a value guy owns Apple is puzzling. This is such a market sentiment/growth expectations stock its ridiculous.

    - Guy who praises Einhorn

  • Bearearns's picture

    The Chipotle in New York by me is not nearly as full as it use to be. I am an avid fan of Chipotle. Everyday I go there and see it empty, maybe because of how cold it is, I keep thinking that Q4 and Q12013 will be bad

  • In reply to Bearearns
    kyleyboy's picture

    Bearearns:
    The Chipotle in New York by me is not nearly as full as it use to be. I am an avid fan of Chipotle. Everyday I go there and see it empty, maybe because of how cold it is, I keep thinking that Q4 and Q12013 will be bad

    Qdoba>Taco Bell>CMG

  • darkxfriend's picture

    Blackhat, curious on your thoughts re: why AAPL, STX, MRVL, and GM longs puzzled you

  • GED or Bust's picture

    Einhorn's long bets have certainly been mediocre. Do you all think he holds companies like Apple that are likely to outpace the S&P (until the growth story gets questioned) allowing him to just sit back and watch his short bets play out?

  • In reply to kyleyboy
    Gray Fox's picture

    kyleyboy:
    Bearearns:
    The Chipotle in New York by me is not nearly as full as it use to be. I am an avid fan of Chipotle. Everyday I go there and see it empty, maybe because of how cold it is, I keep thinking that Q4 and Q12013 will be bad

    Qdoba>Taco Bell>CMG

    Patently false. Here is a Taco Bell in NYC
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su0U37w2tws

    And Qdoba?? Qdoba is the bastard step-child compared to Chipotle

  • Gray Fox's picture

    DontMakeMeShortYou:
    Hilarious.

    JCP appears to be a disaster that continues to get worse. TGT was a bust. HLF bet could turn against Ackman as well. His GGP investment was great, but that was sourced by one of his junior guys, not him (rumor has it the guy got $20m at ~26/7). Could we be seeing Ackman's status unravel? Will his investors begin to leave?

    I've personally heard of how he deals with management teams and boards and find the stories repulsive. People on the buyside typically don't like him very much and not because they're jealous. I'd imagine that this behavior doesn't go unpunished forever.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-24/icahn-say...

    The smartest guy I know in this business told me 2 years ago that he seriously believed that Ackman would blow up again.

    And fucking with Icahn is just stupid. The guys has $15bn+ that is just his own money. If he wanted to and there wasn't the risk of being called out on market manipulation he could just buy up a huge stake on HLF and pull his borrow.

  • slowdive's picture

    I don't have a view on his dealings with management teams, would love to hear stories if anyone wants to share. I do think that his risk management has been fairly poor, evidenced by the fact that he has blown up once already. Getting massively concentrated in a short and then telling the whole world seems like a pretty dangerous endeavor. You're basically begging for people to mess with you. Even if you have 100% conviction, by establishing your position that way, you materially alter the risk/reward.

    As far as Einhorn goes, I think he is pretty late to the short iron ore trade. With China picking up and risk appetite improving, those stocks are a risky short. I agree with the long-term thesis, but I don't think the trade has been timed very well. Too much has already been said about AAPL so I don't want to add to the chorus with my armchair quarterbacking.

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  • slowdive's picture

    Also I wanted to add that it feels good to have a real discussion about these managers, instead of the usual horde of college students touching themselves.

  • packmate's picture

    honestly, i don't know how ackman ever raised a 6 billion dollar fund. his performance hasn't ever been that great(except 2008), and he has had some major losses

  • In reply to BlackHat
    Hooked on LEAPS's picture

    BlackHat:
    Call me old school but gold is pretty much off limits to the Buffetologist in me.

    I'm glad someone agrees with me.

    Competition is a sin.

    -John D. Rockefeller

  • In reply to Gray Fox
    rogersterling59's picture

    Gray Fox:
    kyleyboy:
    Bearearns:
    The Chipotle in New York by me is not nearly as full as it use to be. I am an avid fan of Chipotle. Everyday I go there and see it empty, maybe because of how cold it is, I keep thinking that Q4 and Q12013 will be bad

    Qdoba>Taco Bell>CMG

    Patently false. Here is a Taco Bell in NYC
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su0U37w2tws

    And Qdoba?? Qdoba is the bastard step-child compared to Chipotle

    Yeah I'm not sure what he was going for with that ranking. Qdoba sucks. And you don't even buy Taco Bell, you simply rent it.

    I would agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

  • In reply to Gray Fox
    kyleyboy's picture

    Gray Fox:
    kyleyboy:
    Bearearns:
    The Chipotle in New York by me is not nearly as full as it use to be. I am an avid fan of Chipotle. Everyday I go there and see it empty, maybe because of how cold it is, I keep thinking that Q4 and Q12013 will be bad

    Qdoba>Taco Bell>CMG

    Patently false. Here is a Taco Bell in NYC
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su0U37w2tws

    And Qdoba?? Qdoba is the bastard step-child compared to Chipotle


    That was in 2007, not to say that there aren't taco bells like this anymore but honestly they have made a lot of improvements over the last couple years on average. Food is a lot better. I was kind of joking with the ranking but I really don't like CMG. Their chicken is just not as good as that of Moes and Qdoba. It's also more expensive.
  • In reply to kyleyboy
    brandon st randy's picture

    kyleyboy:
    Gray Fox:
    kyleyboy:
    Bearearns:
    The Chipotle in New York by me is not nearly as full as it use to be. I am an avid fan of Chipotle. Everyday I go there and see it empty, maybe because of how cold it is, I keep thinking that Q4 and Q12013 will be bad

    Qdoba>Taco Bell>CMG

    Patently false. Here is a Taco Bell in NYC
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=su0U37w2tws

    And Qdoba?? Qdoba is the bastard step-child compared to Chipotle


    That was in 2007, not to say that there aren't taco bells like this anymore but honestly they have made a lot of improvements over the last couple years on average. Food is a lot better. I was kind of joking with the ranking but I really don't like CMG. Their chicken is just not as good as that of Moes and Qdoba. It's also more expensive.

    As far as NYC goes, Dos Toros is superior to all these chains. Thou NY Mexican fare still got nothing on Cali.

    Too late for second-guessing Too late to go back to sleep.

  • xqtrack's picture

    seagate has so far been decent for einhorn. he bought in july 11 for 16.06, and now the stock is at 37. so 131% over 1.5 years = not bad.

    gm obviously not so great, but if he's been averaging up his dollar exposure throughout from his buy period (early '11), he has probably made a little money on that as well. And that stock could have plenty further to go.

    I'll be honest, I've never understood what it means to be a 'value' investor vs a 'growth' investor, and I've never really cared (all the theses other people pitch me when I'm talking to people at other shops at conferences / dinners all sound similarly rationalized whether they're value or growth or whatever). If you make 130% over 1.5 years on a long, you're probably doing something right. (I don't idolize Einhorn fwiw, and I realize his track record is merely ok as opposed to stellar, and this last quarter just bad)

  • constipatedmonkey's picture

    isn't ~20% CAGR since inception considered stellar? Not an einhorn fanboy, but to put that up consistently is amazing. I can also see Apple shifting from a "growth stock" to a core holding for the value-oriented PM as it starts comping single digits consistently and potentially distributes more cash to shareholders. Of course, the market for smartphones/tablets can unfold in such a way that he is proven wrong in the long run and the stock can continue to experience wild swings uncharacteristic of most "value stocks", but on many metrics (ex-cash especially) it looks cheap enough to step in on valuation.

    At the end of the day, unless you're strictly gaming the next quarter or making a call on a specific catalyst, you should be buying stocks you think are mispriced, so grouping people as "value" / "growth" is a bit misleading.

  • In reply to kyleyboy
    f4tality's picture

    kyleyboy:
    BlackHat:
    why hadn't he covered on GMCR by now? You can't ride that business to zero...

    Too much coffee today, I apologize.


    I think that his track record of pulling out of Shorts too early and losing money, only to watch them go to zero a year after bcuz he simply couldn't stomach the losses is part of the reason here. I think he made the mistake with GMCR big time. GMCR is actually a good company, maybe the accounting was bad but the product was great. I love GMCR products. Allied on the other hand, was horribly mismanaged and didn't provide a good service. CMG is the same way. I don't agree with his longs in Seagate, apple is understandable, a lot of guys fucked up on that one. Seagate is a slowly dying company imho unless it focuses more on mobile. Which is all cloud based anyways. Cloud is gonna kill HDrives entirely when internet plans improve. As PC becomes less prominent Seagate will as well. This is happening fast.

    I feel the same way about Ackmans retarded bet on JCP.

    Not to derail the thread but it's interesting that you guys bash Einhorn's Seagate call. I recently attended a fascinating presentation by a PM on stocks in out of favor industries, and he also mentioned Seagate as one of his large winners. The pattern he says he recognized in such industries is that as the industry slowly declines, so does competition, and ultimately as there is still a need for the product (HD drives in that case) the companies ahead in the declining industry gain a lot of pricing power, ultimately being profitable (given you step in at the right price - the other idea he conveyed is that there is a right price for "any" asset). His view on Seagate in particular is that while it is certainly a declining industry, there will still be a need for HD drives for a long time and he expects Seagate to be profitable on above mentionned grounds. Other examples he mentioned were Ryan Air (airlines), and NeoPost (european company selling mailing equipment, 10% div. yield; similar to Seagate I guess, who still uses mails instead of emails etc).

  • UFOinsider's picture

    Did Ackman have any major change in his prsonal life in the last couple of years? A fund like this is driven by the leading individual, so understanding what's in their head, and what their emotional state is seems like the logical starting place for me. This really does look like an act of lunacy, and as time goes on and more people pile on, it looks self destructive.

    HLF day trades on breaking news seem like a slam dunk, not sure about the long run. Can't speak to the other stocks mention, especially aapl.

    On a side note: taco bell is still subpar compared to a decent Tex/Mex restaurant, but really has improved lately. Maybe once a month I get a burrito or nachos, and they are better than in the past. However, I assume they're still using zTranche grade meat?

    Get busy living

  • UFOinsider's picture

    On a side note, Icahn used the same word for Ackman I did: disingenuous. Aside from what's already been discussed, there's an easier point to make: yes there are a lot of flunkies making fifty bucks a month hawking shakes. There are, however, substantial amounts of people with stock holdings and or income interests in HLf that stand to lose if the company craters. All fine and well, but driving that situation in the name of charity as Ackman did, is just encouraging poverty and shifting control of resources to an entity he controls, all in the name of some supposedly grave public evil. Realistically, it's a just second rate company that sells mediocre products: I can think of more vile dragons to slay.

    What I see driving Ackman is a hypocritical god complex, and I'm curious what, if any, drivers of that though pattern can be traced to personal problems. These guys eat, sleep, and breath their work, so there's always a carryover. Did he get a divorce? Death in the family? etc etc etc I'd be very curious to know.

    I've never liked Icahn because while he DOES drive transformation in companies, a lot of times I think he makes a stink just to do it. He's good at what he does, I just don't fucking like the guy because the's the busybody type who runs around getting up everyone's ass just because he can do it. However in this case he makes a good counterweight to what I see as a deranged decision, and redeems our industry in the public eye to an extent. So for that, my opinion has changed.

    ...again, this assumes HLf is not going to zero soon. If it does, well, I don't know what to say.

    P.S. Sorry for long post, got stuck waiting for an hour this morning xD

    Get busy living

  • In reply to BlackHat
    Value Sleuth's picture

    BlackHat:
    I hesitate to make a broad claim like this, but I thought this was widely understood by most in the value space. Ackman has a big head and thinks that whatever his first impression of a business is must be the right one. He had no problem taking credit for the GGP play as loudly as possible, and his approach to activism hasn't exactly yielded much fruit for the most part. In the value activism space we consider him somewhere between a John Paulson and a Kim Jong Il. High profile successes combined with a stubborn disposition that kills all productivity.

    But let's not try and pretend the HLF bet is the reason why Icahn hates Ackman. This isn't the first time they've come to blows.

    On a marginally related note, I wanted to post a thread earlier (but decided against it) trashing a guy I've loved for a long time: David Einhorn. I know in the wake of the last Greenlight letter it's shortsighted to say he's just not as good as I thought he was, but it's actually a pattern of having a track record of long positions that are inconsistent with the reputation he's been given as one of the great "value guys" out there. Sure, he is, but his love for Apple, Marvel, Seagate, and even General Motors has had me at least a little bit puzzled. And did I forget gold? Call me old school but gold is pretty much off limits to the Buffetologist in me. His short book is one I've always appreciated but why hadn't he covered on GMCR by now? You can't ride that business to zero...

    Too much coffee today, I apologize.

    I spoke with someone who was an early investor in Ackman's fund and he said that Bill knows the bottom five basis points of his portfolio better than the analyst on the name does. He truly does deep-work.

    That doesn't mean that what you say is incorrect - I completely agree. He sure does love himself.

    I think a value investor can like gold (I've never owned it, for the record) - Buffett's also full of shit regarding his hatred of metals since Berkshire had a huge position in silver in the late 90's. Einhorn did well on Seagate and GM (so far, I think). I've disliked Apple for a long time and didn't get that one, either. His long positions often confuse me, but he's a wiz when it comes to the short side.

  • In reply to f4tality
    Value Sleuth's picture

    f4tality:
    kyleyboy:
    BlackHat:
    why hadn't he covered on GMCR by now? You can't ride that business to zero...

    Too much coffee today, I apologize.


    I think that his track record of pulling out of Shorts too early and losing money, only to watch them go to zero a year after bcuz he simply couldn't stomach the losses is part of the reason here. I think he made the mistake with GMCR big time. GMCR is actually a good company, maybe the accounting was bad but the product was great. I love GMCR products. Allied on the other hand, was horribly mismanaged and didn't provide a good service. CMG is the same way. I don't agree with his longs in Seagate, apple is understandable, a lot of guys fucked up on that one. Seagate is a slowly dying company imho unless it focuses more on mobile. Which is all cloud based anyways. Cloud is gonna kill HDrives entirely when internet plans improve. As PC becomes less prominent Seagate will as well. This is happening fast.

    I feel the same way about Ackmans retarded bet on JCP.

    Not to derail the thread but it's interesting that you guys bash Einhorn's Seagate call. I recently attended a fascinating presentation by a PM on stocks in out of favor industries, and he also mentioned Seagate as one of his large winners. The pattern he says he recognized in such industries is that as the industry slowly declines, so does competition, and ultimately as there is still a need for the product (HD drives in that case) the companies ahead in the declining industry gain a lot of pricing power, ultimately being profitable (given you step in at the right price - the other idea he conveyed is that there is a right price for "any" asset). His view on Seagate in particular is that while it is certainly a declining industry, there will still be a need for HD drives for a long time and he expects Seagate to be profitable on above mentionned grounds. Other examples he mentioned were Ryan Air (airlines), and NeoPost (european company selling mailing equipment, 10% div. yield; similar to Seagate I guess, who still uses mails instead of emails etc).

    This was an excellent, excellent post (Sorry I'm posting multiple comments in a row - I'm reading, commenting, and then going back to reading). Going to places where everyone is fleeing makes sense - things will get unfairly punished, allowing an investor to make an above-average profit. Wall Street will very often put sounding smart above making money (and herd-like thinking is just as commonly found among the supposed contrarian value investors as it is with any other investor). You can find some really interesting ideas by looking at the indexes of countries whose stock market has suffered in recent years.

    Quality post.

  • In reply to slowdive
    BlackHat's picture

    slowdive:
    Also I wanted to add that it feels good to have a real discussion about these managers, instead of the usual horde of college students touching themselves.

    This. +1, haha.

    Great thread but the most disconcerting comment I've seen, which makes me truly question the direction the quality of human beings on this website (and in the world in general) is headed, is the Qdoba > TBell > CMG statement. This is, in all material aspects, unequivocally false. And is in fact completely backwards. The chicken argument is invalid, as any self-respecting man of the street would select steak over chicken unless he's with his woman. And believe me, never take your woman to Chipotle if you intend on spending time with her afterwards.

    Now that I got that out of my system - do keep in mind that past performance is not indicative of future performance (CFA Level 1, anyone?). So just because STX has done well for Einhorn in the past doesn't mean it's not worthy of reevaluation now, and same goes for GM. The STX argument was made well by a previous poster so I'll leave that one alone. On any argument other than price, it's difficult to justify picking General Motors over any other mass manufacturing auto company. And if your one sticking point happens to be price, I'm of the opinion that proper analysis would lead one to buy Ford. More streamlined, exceptionally stronger in all aspects of the mid-size and compact lines and the ultimate breadwinner in the F-Series which GM has no competitor for. GM has so much redundancy in their models that masquerades as "variety" and they couldn't even cut it quick enough to avoid bankruptcy. Led by an insufferable clown from Carlyle, they have no answer for "Big" Al Mulally, and even every EVP under him would all make better CEOs than Akerson at GM, especially "Marky Mark" Fields, the CEO-to-be post-2014. I don't want to rant here, but I don't see the rationale behind picking GM along with the rest of the HF crowd who all tell me the same thing: "it's cheap." Well, what was wrong with Ford, bro?

    And Apple just doesn't fit with the concept of owning a business for the uber-long-term, but there's nothing wrong with owning it per se, as Einhorn isn't someone I'd expect to behave like a true old school value investor. Long-term for him might be a year or so. Check out the guys who hold for at least half a decade and ask how much work they do on a name before they own it, then ask their conviction on everything in their portfolio. Or maybe you won't have to after you've heard the first answer.

    I hate victims who respect their executioners

  • Value Sleuth's picture

    Good point, BH. I don't think Einhorn usually holds for 3-5 years.

    I remember when Ted Weschler was hired from Berkshire he said that he doesn't invest until he's spent 500 hours on a name. I used to be blown away at this number, but when you start to do deep dives on names you start to understand how easy it is to get to to that number.

  • In reply to Value Sleuth
    BlackHat's picture

    Value Sleuth:
    Good point, BH. I don't think Einhorn usually holds for 3-5 years.

    I remember when Ted Weschler was hired from Berkshire he said that he doesn't invest until he's spent 500 hours on a name. I used to be blown away at this number, but when you start to do deep dives on names you start to understand how easy it is to get to to that number.

    Agree, and what's most troubling about Ackman on the Herbalife situation is him bragging that his entire office spent "over a year" on research before making the call. I've never heard of someone needing remotely close to a year for anything, let alone putting the entire office on it... but I suppose it's commendable that he's "done his homework." Though I have to question exactly how right he is if someone like Loeb could so quickly jump to the other side with confidence and say he's wrong. You don't spend that kind of time on something and be anything but 99% right.

    I hate victims who respect their executioners

  • Value Sleuth's picture

    Exactly. It's a fascinating presentation - I find that understanding theses helps improve your process more so than reading the marginal investing book, but it's very, very odd that he spent so much time on it and it still wasn't convincing that it was a fat pitch of a short.

    Klarman talks about the diminishing returns to marginal research in 'Margin of Safety' a bit, and I think it's something we need to be conscious about: I spent about 300 hours (approximately) on a short - the last 200 was pretty much just confirming what I suspected/figured out over the course of the first 100 - there was no additional investable action discovered in the last 200. Of course, the search for disconfirming evidence leads us to, in hindsight, waste time. But it seems like Ackman spends much of his time finding confirming evidence instead of seeking the opposing opinion and weighing it properly - which is a long-winded way of tying into your first post about Ackman relying on his first impressions of businesses.

  • TheKing's picture

    I cannot fathom spending 500 hours studying a stock. I admire the shit out of people on the buyside that do that. I love reading their output and theses, but am not sure I'd have it in me to do the work to get there. It takes a very specific mind to do this kind of work at a really high level. I'd estimate that, even within banking and PE, maybe 3 - 5% of the Analysts / Associates are capable of doing it and doing it well (while also enjoying the work.)

  • pariahdog's picture

    Anybody watching cnbc right now? Icahn's Ackman bashing!

  • In reply to TheKing
    UFOinsider's picture

    TheKing:
    I cannot fathom spending 500 hours studying a stock.

    Honestly, it seems like he made up his mind and then spent 500 hours trying to justify it. Where have we seen this before?

    clue: 2003

    Get busy living

  • Vi's picture

    Shit, I missed the apparent exchange they had on TV. Does anyone have a link to a recording of the exchange between Ichan and Ackman?

  • DontMakeMeShortYou's picture

    Maury should be moderating this

  • Hooked on LEAPS's picture

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  • brandon st randy's picture

    Too late for second-guessing Too late to go back to sleep.

  • Unforseen's picture
  • Jamin's picture

    Opstar lifestyle, might not make it

  • slowdive's picture
  • Ichan's picture

    It's not about the money. It's about the game between people.

  • BlackHat's picture

    I hate victims who respect their executioners