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MSF Question and Answer

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/9/13 at 8:18pm

I get a ton of emails and answer a ton of posts asking similar questions so I thought I would answer the most common ones I get here and allow others to post their questions so everyone can see them and the subsequent answers. Hope this helps.

Summer Analyst Eligibility
• The SA position is really structured for undergraduate students. The whole reason undergraduates go for a SA position is because they aren’t ready to work full time. If you are in a one year masters program is really doesn’t make much sense to try for an SA spot when you are eligible for FT analyst recruiting.

Now if you feel that you need internship experience in order to be more competitive then your best bet is to look for an unpaid internship or something off cycle. This will give you FO finance type experience, increase your knowledge and something you can do during the school year thereby not making you ineligible for full time positions.

Does this mean you can’t apply for a SA gig? No. Smaller banks might be more open to this and through networking you might be able to go over HRs head, but if you can go for full time recruiting I would advise you do so.

Admissions advice

• I get this question at least 10 times a week. MSF programs are very different than MBA programs when it comes to admissions. You need to have the quantitative ability to succeed in the program and you also don’t really get points for having diverse experience like you do in an MBA program. It is a specialized degree after all.

Low GPA (3.0 and below)

• Not a deal breaker. You need a strong GMAT (650 or higher). You need some finance internships and/or work experience. You need to explain when your GPA was low. You need to have a polish application. I’ve helped and know people with sub 3.0 GPA’s get into all the main programs that everyone asks about.

Low GMAT (600-ish)

• Once again, not a complete deal breaker. You need to have a higher GPA, work experience, something to offset you. Lower GMAT will lower your shot at some MSF programs that tend to really focus on gmat scores, but it isn’t a deal breaker like it would be in the MBA world. You just need to really be able to sell the fact that you can handle the rigor of the program and get a job.

No work experience

• This won’t hurt your application, but it could hurt your recruiting. You really want to have some type of work/internship experience on your resume. There are so many things you pick up from having to show up to work and work with other people that can’t be replicated in school. Get some experience, somehow.

What program should I attend?

• The million dollar question. You need to ask yourself where you want to work, do you need an internship, what type of career you are looking to get into, do you like the campus/surrounding area/program, etc. This isn’t a math equation. Villanova is very different than Ohio State. WUSTL is very different from Claremont McKenna. Dukes MMS program is very different than UT Austin. MSF’s are very regional and place as such.

Different programs also provide different internship opportunities throughout the school year. They are also set up differently. Some have a cohort where everyone takes the same classes together. Some have a hybrid program. Some have students take MBA level finance classes.

And why do I say you need to decide this yourself? Because if you can’t figure out where you are most comfortable and what you want to do once you graduate you are going to have trouble regardless of where you go. Indecision is probably the biggest thing working against MSF students because of the tight timeline everyone is working under.

You need to know what you want to do and how you are going to go about doing it before Day 1 of class. And this includes knowing basic questions about yourself and career which easily narrow down which school you want to attend.

MSF Rankings

• There are none. A lot of stuff is ad hoc and puts MSF programs into tiers or whatever, but the degree and schools offering the degree haven’t reached the level of the MBA degree. Even within the MBA you can’t just look at pure rankings without factoring in career aspirations and local. Best thing you can do is look at placements and program locations and choose accordingly.

MMS vs. MSF

• MMS is a great degree and has some overlap with the MSF so it is often seen as a competitor. The main thing to consider is that the MMS is basically an MBA for students without the required work experience. It is ideal for those students who have liberal arts undergraduate degrees and are looking for a general, business overview. While it can place you into a financial role, I think too many people pursue it simply because of brand value which I feel can be a risky bet.

CFA vs. MSF

• CFA is great, but is a poor comparison. Many MSF graduates get their CFA and many students who have L1-L2 completed pursue an MSF. Both are great, have value and should be considered independently.

MSF vs. MBA

• Same advice as above. MSF is more of a mini reset button, allowing students another year in college to pursue their goals. MBA is for experienced individuals looking to rebrand, change careers or advance in their current industry.

MSF Website MACC Website MSF Twitter

Tags:

Any other questions post here

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/6/13 at 5:18pm

Any other questions post here and I will answer them as they come.

MSF Website
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Are companies still confused

cakepie

(Orangutan, 300

Points)

on 1/6/13 at 6:10pm

Are companies still confused what exactly a MSF is and why it different from other degrees? I ask because I always used to hear that people had to spend a considerable amount of time in each interview explaining to the recruiters what degree they are actually getting, let alone why it is valuable.

Anthony, great post. When

KKS

(Gorilla, 640

Points)

on 1/6/13 at 6:38pm

Anthony, great post. When interviewed for FT, I am sure the question of "Why MSF?" will come up. How can you defend your choice when you pursued an MSF for another shot at FT recruiting?

Anthony, do you know how

HowardRoark

(Orangutan, 330

Points)

on 1/6/13 at 8:03pm

Anthony, do you know how easy/difficult it might be to get a summer internship at a bank or boutique? Not necessarily an SA position per se, but just showing up and helping out/learning the environment. Also, to what extent would someone who does this be disadvantaged in comparison to other MSF students who have done SA positions before??

jacobzhang.net - my thoughts and portfolio.

"Money doesn't talk, it swears." - Bob Dylan

See my other WSO Blog posts

cakepie: Are companies still

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/6/13 at 8:05pm

cakepie:

More people are starting to know about the degree, but it is still not as well known as other degrees. Have a 10 second elevator speech to describe it.

"One year, specialized graduate degree focused entirely on finance." Something along those lines.

MSF Website
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KKS: Anthony, great post.

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/6/13 at 8:06pm

KKS:

Anthony, great post. When interviewed for FT, I am sure the question of "Why MSF?" will come up. How can you defend your choice when you pursued an MSF for another shot at FT recruiting?

You wanted to study finance more in depth. You tried your best, but couldn't secure a FT position and wanted to learn more while having another shot at recruiting. You wanted to do banking and tried, but realized that you needed to beef up your resume so you did a masters, interned and XYZ.

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HowardRoark: Anthony, do you

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/6/13 at 8:11pm

HowardRoark:

Send out emails and call up boutiques in the area. This is why I mention in my original post that you need to know what you want to do and what you need to do to achieve this. If you feel like you need an internship you are better off picking an MSF program located near an urban area with potential internships. If you already have an SA or two you can decide on the program without thinking about the need to intern.

Are you at a disadvantage? Yeah, I would say so. You can make up for this with a good GPA in your masters, an unpaid internship, superior networking skills, etc.

MSF Website
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MSF Twitter

Great post ANT, this needs to

lasampdoria

(King Kong, 1,434

Points)

on 1/6/13 at 10:11pm

Great post ANT, this needs to make the front page.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."- Benjamin Franklin

Thanks for this ANT, I did

twinb

(Monkey, 32

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 2:34am

Thanks for this ANT, I did have a few questions about this, some which you answered in your initial post.

I live in and was hoping to stay in LA, so looks like I need to target Claremont initially.

How well does a MSF(or even a MAcc) help in rebranding if you come from a total non-target with a poor GPA(2.8-3.1 area).

Does the MSF place ok into Consulting at all or mainly banking?

Top MFin programs(MIT, UCB, CMU etc.), poor GPA but killer GMAT, still a chance?

Do these programs consider age heavily?

Again, thanks for doing this.

thanks ant, will put this up

AndyLouis

(Senior Neanderthal, 5,802

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 4:51am

thanks ant, will put this up on the homepage

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another helpful post on the

AndyLouis

(Senior Neanderthal, 5,802

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 6:25am

another helpful post on the msf: http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/time-to-respec...

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2013 WSO Conference

ANT, At what point (amount

nebben2k10

(Monkey, 47

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 8:14am

ANT,

At what point (amount of work experience) does the MSF start to lose value? For instance, would it still be valuable for someone with say three years of less than ideal work experience (i.e. brokerage followed by boutique ER)? Less valuable for that person than a person still in undergrad?

Thanks.

I find it kind of hilarious

happypantsmcgee

(Almost Human, 9,621

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 8:28am

I find it kind of hilarious that TNA has changed his name a few times and everyone still knows his as the loveable curmudgeon that is Anthony.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

Great Stuff

boredviewer

(Senior Monkey, 71

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 8:55am

Great Stuff

twinb: Thanks for this ANT, I

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 10:11am

twinb:

Thanks for this ANT, I did have a few questions about this, some which you answered in your initial post.

I live in and was hoping to stay in LA, so looks like I need to target Claremont initially.

How well does a MSF(or even a MAcc) help in rebranding if you come from a total non-target with a poor GPA(2.8-3.1 area).

Does the MSF place ok into Consulting at all or mainly banking?

Top MFin programs(MIT, UCB, CMU etc.), poor GPA but killer GMAT, still a chance?

Do these programs consider age heavily?

Again, thanks for doing this.

Claremont is the best West Coast MSF and one of the best in the country. They are also very, very selective. You might run into issues with a GPA in the range. You are going to need a very, very good GMAT also (think 720+).

MSF's can and do place into consulting, but it is usually somehow related to the financial industry. Depending on how you spin it you can go into other areas I suppose.

Two of the top "MSF" programs you listed are MFE programs. They are also some of the best programs and will probably have high GPA and GMAT requirements. Once again, not saying no possibility, but I would have some other schools as back ups.

Age is generally not focused on, but if you are more of an MBA candidate you should be prepared to answer the "Why an MSF and not an MBA" question.

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nebben2k10: ANT, At what

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 10:17am

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happypantsmcgee: I find it

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 10:18am

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MsF at non-target and

lostchimp

(Senior Monkey, 80

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 10:55am

ANT, First off, this is my

csb5255

(Chimp, 1

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 11:01am

csb5255: ANT, First off,

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 11:06am

MSF Website
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+1 great post Ant. Hit me up

The Kid

(Gorilla, 635

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 11:47am

TNA: HowardRoark: Anthony,

Ichan

(Baboon, 151

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 12:33pm

It's not about the money. It's about the game between people.

Ichan: TNA: HowardRoark:

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 12:44pm

MSF Website
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How do you feel about

IB_hopeful

(Monkey, 30

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 1:05pm

IB_hopeful: How do you feel

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 1:14pm

MSF Website
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TNA: IB_hopeful: How do you

The Kid

(Gorilla, 635

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 1:53pm

The

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 1:59pm

MSF Website
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Does it make sense for a

JYFresh

(Senior Monkey, 81

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 3:05pm

When she fucks with The Weeknd, I call her up on weekdays

JYFresh: Does it make sense

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 3:07pm

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Hi, I am based in the UK

clungeandman

(Chimp, 14

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 4:21pm

clungeandman: Hi, I am based

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 4:29pm

MSF Website
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Can you elaborate on the

clungeandman

(Chimp, 14

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 5:03pm

Is a low GMAT score (650-700)

BepBep12

(Senior Gorilla, 842

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 5:17pm

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

clungeandman: Can you

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 5:20pm

MSF Website
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BepBep12: Is a low GMAT score

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 5:21pm

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Great information. Thanks. I

hewenxun376

(Chimp, 8

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 5:31pm

hewenxun376: Great

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 5:38pm

MSF Website
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TNA: Age is generally not

twinb

(Monkey, 32

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 6:45pm

would you recommend an MSF

CKIB91

(Senior Chimp, 28

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 6:54pm

I'm a senior at a non target

watdo

(Senior Chimp, 19

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 7:36pm

Is the GRE not valued as

aurelius

(Chimp, 12

Points)

on 1/7/13 at 9:20pm

twinb: TNA: Age is

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/8/13 at 11:31am

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CKIB91: would you recommend

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/8/13 at 11:35am

MSF Website
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watdo: I'm a senior at a non

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/8/13 at 11:36am

MSF Website
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MSF Twitter

aurelius: Is the GRE not

TNA

(Human, 13,500

Points)

on 1/8/13 at 11:37am

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Silver Banana to Anthony for

calikid3820

(Senior Baboon, 247

Points)

on 1/8/13 at 11:49am

This might not apply to

BepBep12

(Senior Gorilla, 842

Points)

on 1/8/13 at 9:05pm

'Before you enter... be willing to pay the price'

I am in the EC major, and

appyz

(Senior Chimp, 17

Points)

on 1/8/13 at 5:41pm

i am applying to MS Finance

neil joseph

(Senior Baboon, 189

Points)

on 1/8/13 at 6:13pm

"A man travels the world over in search of what he needs and returns home to find it." ~George Moore

Great info and helpful!

Chai

(Chimp, 10

Points)

on 1/8/13 at 8:19pm

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PRIVACY POLICY

The Company recognizes that you are concerned about privacy. We are committed to preserving your privacy and safeguarding your sensitive information. The following statement describes the general information-gathering and usage practices of our sites.

Our staff, contractors, Internet service providers and others involved in this site follow this policy or similarly strict policies regarding your Information.

Disclosure

The Company is committed to fully disclosing our policies regarding the collection, use, maintenance, disclosure and security of personal information obtained from users of our site. The term "personal information" includes a name, address, email address, or any other information which could be used to contact you directly or to identify you personally.

Use and Disclosure Limitations

The Company only uses personal information about its Web site users for specific purposes. We do not share user information with third parties except when we have told users about the disclosures, when we have prior consent, or when required by law.

Use Policy: When the Company gathers personal information from users, we ask for permission first. We also disclose, at the time of collection, how the information will be used by us. Personal information is used for activities such as auto-completion of commonly-used forms and helping us contact you when you solicit information from us.

Disclosure Policy: We do not normally disclose personal information to anyone outside of the Company unless we have previously informed users about the disclosures. However, some data may be used from time to time by outside contractors, including auditors or consultants, to assist us in carrying out necessary financial or operational activities. These uses will be consistent with this privacy policy and all contractors using this potential personal information must agree to safeguard it, to use it only for the authorized purpose, and to return it or destroy it upon completion of the activity.

The Company might be required to disclose personal information in response to a valid legal process such as a subpoena, search warrant or court order.

Although unlikely, it is possible that we may have to make certain disclosures to ensure the security of our Web site, to protect its integrity, or to take precautions against potential liability. In any of these situations, we will take any reasonable steps to limit the scope of the data disclosed.

Web Logs: The Company maintains standard Web logs that record basic information about visitors to our Web site. These logs contain: * The Internet domain from which you came to our Web site. * Your IP address. An IP address is a series of numbers which uniquely identifies your connection to the Internet. Although it is possible in some instances, certain types of IP addresses may be used by interested persons to identify users but we do not attempt to identify users in this way. * The type of browser (e.g., Internet Explorer or Netscape) and operating system (e.g., Windows 98) you use. * The date and time you visited the site, and the pages you saw.

We use Web log information to design our Web site, identify popular features, and in similar ways. We do not try to identify individuals from Web logs or to link Web logs to other user information. However, if someone tries to damage our Web site or use it in an unauthorized or illegal way, we may share Web log information with law enforcement agencies. The Company may provide aggregate information such as the number of users who visit particular pages of the site, or the number of people who link to certain external sites from our site, to other parties.

Changes to Privacy Policy

The Company's features and services will change over time and our information-gathering practices and policies may also change.

While our philosophy of protecting user information from inappropriate uses and disclosures will not change, this policy will be updated occasionally to include any change that materially affects the collection, maintenance, use, or disclosure of personal information.

Accept Terms & Conditions of Use *

User	Silver Bananas
Edmundo Braverman	1115
TNA	1097
CompBanker	873
happypantsmcgee	742
IlliniProgrammer	720
UFOinsider	633
TheKing	620
BlackHat	566
Nouveau Richie	420
cphbravo96	406

User	Banana Points
Edmundo Braverman	14343
TNA	13500
WallStreetOasis.com	12066
UFOinsider	10328
happypantsmcgee	9621
IlliniProgrammer	9214
CompBanker	8506
Siberian Husky	5862
AndyLouis	5802
monty09	5399

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Fellow Primates, We are looking for 1-2 students on each campus to help WSO in its sales efforts to student clubs/career centers, and overall promotion at your school both online and on the ground. Below is a description of the position and benefits...thanks in advance for your help! <a... WSO is Looking for Campus Reps For Summer/Fall 2013 (and beyond)
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Someone was asking me about this in PM and I wrote a long and detailed reply about what it is like to work in Big 4 and what advice I would give to people thinking about interning / working there. Thought it might be useful for others so my reply is below. Happy to answer any... Working In Big 4 Audit in London

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