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2/20/12

As comp in IB continues to disappoint, I was wondering what industry paid as well as IB, and had the potential salary upside of IB for an associate / VP - any ideas? Does corporate pay as well? How much would a Business Development director earn at a Fortune 500 company?

How about consulting? Pros/cons?

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Comments (226)

Best Response
2/20/12

a somalian pirate....they fucking rake

Here's the thing. If you can't spot the sucker in the first half hour at the table, you are the sucker.

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2/20/12

Bus Dev especially starting off in bus dev is definitely not as high.

I would say (top 3) consulting, (including perks) is very comparable, and depending on who you are, the job is quite interesting.

2/20/12

IBD is a good way to ensure relatively strong earnings.

Real wealth is derived from owning companies (true equity, not somebody who has 20 shares of KO).

That's why there were so many bankers to be who ran off to the tech scene in the 90's it was another potential shot of get rich quick.

2/20/12
In reply to J.
2/20/12
J.:

Bus Dev especially starting off in bus dev is definitely not as high.

I would say (top 3) consulting, (including perks) is very comparable, and depending on who you are, the job is quite interesting.

Agreed that starting job in bus dev not only pays poorly but sucks too. But if you get in at director level (basically running the thing - something a 2nd or 3rd year VP could do), how much could you make?

In reply to morgan90
2/20/12
morgan90:

Consulting...

Yes, but you'll earn it. Tons of travel. And most consulting companies highlight in their contract that they DO NOT pay for personal time on travel. That means that if a contract requires you to fly on Sundays (common) or stay the weekend (not so common but it happens) then that's on your clock, not theirs. That shit gets old REALLY fast.

Of course, you can say that IBD is tough work too and I agree. But I'd much rather do 80 hours in IBD and sleep in my own bed, eat my own food, than 80 hours of consulting, 20 of which are my own time, while connecting through God-forsaken Denver on my way to Ames Iowa to sleep at a Hampton fucking Inn.

2/20/12

Well, Big Law can achieve the same level of pay (~$160,000 in NYC), but you're coming in after three years of law school.

"When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is."
- Oscar Wilde
"Seriously, psychology is for those with two x chromosomes."
- RagnarDanneskjold

2/20/12
2/20/12

PE, if you're lucky enough to get in straight out of undergrad ...

2/20/12
In reply to GentlemanJack
2/20/12
GentlemanJack:
morgan90:

Consulting...

Yes, but you'll earn it. Tons of travel. And most consulting companies highlight in their contract that they DO NOT pay for personal time on travel. That means that if a contract requires you to fly on Sundays (common) or stay the weekend (not so common but it happens) then that's on your clock, not theirs. That shit gets old REALLY fast.

Of course, you can say that IBD is tough work too and I agree. But I'd much rather do 80 hours in IBD and sleep in my own bed, eat my own food, than 80 hours of consulting, 20 of which are my own time, while connecting through God-forsaken Denver on my way to Ames Iowa to sleep at a Hampton fucking Inn.

This is very misleading:

1) Rarely do you fly on Sundays. It does happen, but a good manager isn't going to let that crap happen, because it's that person's time too.

2) Compensated for personal time? Is this a union job? You charge everything to either your client or to internal for all the time you're busting your ass traveling. Regardless, you're salaried, so it's all about what your charge time is and metrics come review season.

3) Hampton Inn? (I really hate myself for being a points snob at this point. But really?)

I'm incriminating myself.

In reply to GentlemanJack
2/20/12
GentlemanJack:
morgan90:

Consulting...

Yes, but you'll earn it. Tons of travel. And most consulting companies highlight in their contract that they DO NOT pay for personal time on travel. That means that if a contract requires you to fly on Sundays (common) or stay the weekend (not so common but it happens) then that's on your clock, not theirs. That shit gets old REALLY fast.

Of course, you can say that IBD is tough work too and I agree. But I'd much rather do 80 hours in IBD and sleep in my own bed, eat my own food, than 80 hours of consulting, 20 of which are my own time, while connecting through God-forsaken Denver on my way to Ames Iowa to sleep at a Hampton fucking Inn.

Pretty much everything you just wrote is false. Except the hours - that's legit. Smaller operations, particularly off-brand IT consulting shops are going to fit your description because they are far more price sensitive - they have much lower bill rates simply to get business, and live in fear of charging clients too much for expenses. Any of the shops talked about in this forum (McK, Bain, BCG, LEK, Monitor, OW, Deloitte, EY, PwC, Accenture, etc.) are going to be as follows:

(1) Most consulting shops - at least the big name ones worth their salt, are M-Th travel, home (or in office) on Friday. Probably quite a few wfh hours on Saturday afternoon as well, but at least you're at home. This can change during crunch time or for very specific projects (see #3), but is generally the rule.

(2) At these same consulting shops, you are generally salaried + bonus (or maybe K1 if you're a partner), so I'm not sure what contract you're talking about regarding payment for personal time. Also not sure where you're getting a contract that requires someone to travel on Sunday. That's all project specific, and you rotate on and off projects with no "contract". You're an employee of the firm you work at.

(3) If you do land on a project where weekend stays are requested or expected for a long period (i.e maybe client wants everyone there 8am Monday -> 5pm Friday), or you really are just working around the clock 7 days a week, a few things happen that generally don't for the M-Th folks: corporate hosing comes into play, so you might get an apartment on location for however long you need to be there. Additional cost of living expenses enter as well: laundry service, and other things they generally wouldn't pay for if you're only on-site M-Th. All of this is paid for by the client, and not your problem.

(4) Firms are generally very flexible with mixing personal and work travel / time. For example, it's almost a universal perk that if you, say, live in Chicago and are on a project in Dallas, instead of flying back to Chicago on Thursday night, you can fly anywhere you want, up to the cost of your ticket home. Maybe you go visit friends in Denver for the weekend, etc.

(5) Location: So many projects are going to be in major metro areas that, while yes you could get stuck in Bum Fuck Iowa - that's unlikely. Most people I know spent their entire careers in Chicago, NYC, DC, San Fran, LA, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte, etc. Rarely did I know of, or hear of people having to spend months on end in the middle of no where (even though it does happen on occasion - it's just not the rule) .

2/20/12

1 - I am writing about my experience with IBM not some risky dink little consulting shop.

2 - you guys are only thinking about domestic assignments. If you're good - and I was VERY good - you get sent overseas. So, 9 hour flight to Colombia and the client wants you there Monday, 8 am. Guess which day you're flying out? And it's a three week contract. Guess how many weekends you're spending in Colombia?

3 - It doesn't matter who you work for EVERYONE is cost conscious now. The days of the client footing the bill for anything you want are over. Most clients stick by GSA rates and I don't have to tell you how much those suck.

4 - my its was not so much about the scheduling & expenses as it was about the personal time away from home. Unless you've been there, as I have, it's hard to appreciate what it means to sleep in your own bed. Both of you knuckleheads made references ti that without really appreciating what it means.

I stand by my previous statement. You're better off slaving in ib than consulting.

2/20/12

although it's a front/middle office role in working with the S&T team, how is Equity Research as a career for a few years before moving on?

2/20/12

NBA Point Guard. Jeremy Lin majored in Econ at Harvard. Could have done IB after school but stuck with bball and now he's reeling in 800 grand a year

2/20/12

I like how this website denies the existence of the medical profession.

2/20/12

Or engineering and architecture (granted the earnings potential is far lower unless you start your own firm).

2/20/12

Public accounting won't be as highly compensated as IB or consulting but the pay is pretty decent after a few years. Here's a chart on big 4 salary assuming you're coming fresh out of undergrad then masters in accounting.
http://goingconcern.com/post/lets-take-second-look...

2/20/12

OK, a bit more about myself - I am a post MBA associate in a BB, so most of the options that are mentioned are not options (law, consulting, etc) are not options for me. What other jobs provide comparable pay checks for an associate?

2/20/12

engineer

The Four E's of investment
"The greatest Enemies of the Equity investor are Expenses and Emotions."- Warren Buffet

In reply to Achiral
2/20/12
Achiral:

I like how this website denies the existence of the medical profession.

If you're smart enough to be an MD, you're smart enough to be an MD. The question is how ruthless and practical you are.

"When I was young I thought that money was the most important thing in life; now that I am old I know that it is."
- Oscar Wilde
"Seriously, psychology is for those with two x chromosomes."
- RagnarDanneskjold

2/20/12

Engineering doesn't pay nearly as well as finance. Starting salaries may be comparable, but there's much less advancement.

2/20/12

Looking at my friends and removing family money and entrepreneurship from the equation...

Alternatives careers that pay well:
- A few friends (surgeons) do well for themselves.
- Real estate investments/acquisitions can be lucrative (although very cyclical and finance related sector).
- I don't know how well advertising pays (Ogilvy, Publicis, etc...) but a friend of mine is a director at a similar firm and does well for himself.
- Certain areas of legal work pay well.

2/20/12

no one is going to mention the oil industry in general?

2/20/12

Petroleum engineering. I know kids from our school who graduate with $110K+ starting salaries.

In reply to neanderthal
2/20/12
neanderthal:

Petroleum engineering. I know kids from our school who graduate with $110K+ starting salaries.

JOb requires alot of hard work and is quite hard to get qualified for

The Four E's of investment
"The greatest Enemies of the Equity investor are Expenses and Emotions."- Warren Buffet

In reply to UncleMilty
2/20/12
UncleMilty:
Achiral:

I like how this website denies the existence of the medical profession.

If you're smart enough to be an MD, you're smart enough to be an MD. The question is how ruthless and practical you are.

Could you elaborate? Not sure what you were driving at here...

In reply to GentlemanJack
2/20/12
GentlemanJack:

1 - I am writing about my experience with IBM not some risky dink little consulting shop.

2 - you guys are only thinking about domestic assignments. If you're good - and I was VERY good - you get sent overseas. So, 9 hour flight to Colombia and the client wants you there Monday, 8 am. Guess which day you're flying out? And it's a three week contract. Guess how many weekends you're spending in Colombia?

3 - It doesn't matter who you work for EVERYONE is cost conscious now. The days of the client footing the bill for anything you want are over. Most clients stick by GSA rates and I don't have to tell you how much those suck.

4 - my its was not so much about the scheduling & expenses as it was about the personal time away from home. Unless you've been there, as I have, it's hard to appreciate what it means to sleep in your own bed. Both of you knuckleheads made references ti that without really appreciating what it means.

I stand by my previous statement. You're better off slaving in ib than consulting.

IBM isn't little but it's pretty close to rinky dink. My friends there all echo your sentiments: shitty projects, cheap ass clients, boring work... High end management consulting with MBB (not IT consulting) is an entirely different world. Clients do foot the bill for everything, and there's none of this GSA rate bullshit. For whatever reason, the work I'm doing for them is worth more than I could possibly charge for dinner, and they recognize that.

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IB Templates, M&A, LBO, Valuation +

IB Interview Prep Pack

30,000+ sold & REAL questions.

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Find Your Perfect IB Mentor

Realistic IB Mock Interviews.

2/20/12

Just FYI - in Asia, IBD pays significantly more than Consulting, but also has much worse hours. 100 hours of work versus maybe 70-80, for which you get paid (first year) 150-200k vs 75-100k USD a year.

In reply to kmess024
2/20/12
kmess024:
neanderthal:

Petroleum engineering. I know kids from our school who graduate with $110K+ starting salaries.

JOb requires alot of hard work and is quite hard to get qualified for

IBD is a lot harder than Petroleum Engineering, fyi.

In reply to Achiral
2/20/12
Achiral:

I like how this website denies the existence of the medical profession.

When you take into the account the opportunity cost of pursuing a medical degree, the cost of financing such an education, and how MDs are getting increasingly fucked in the ass by insurance premiums...f-uck no I would not ever consider that profession

2/21/12
In reply to shorttheworld
2/21/12
shorttheworld:

PORN

STAR

A profession made obsolete by the internet.

In reply to shorttheworld
2/21/12
shorttheworld:

PORN

STAR

that shit after an IB stint could fill some fatty fetish needs

2/21/12

not valuations.

2/21/12

Blow jobs?

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them

In reply to shorttheworld
2/21/12
shorttheworld:

PORN

STAR

every aspiring porn star gotta do a gay scene to move up, just like the schools of associates getting mounted from behind.

In reply to PetEng
2/21/12
PetEng:
kmess024:
neanderthal:

Petroleum engineering. I know kids from our school who graduate with $110K+ starting salaries.

JOb requires alot of hard work and is quite hard to get qualified for

IBD is a lot harder than Petroleum Engineering, fyi.

True. First friend out of college, reservior engineer, starting salary is $105k and gets every other Friday off (9-5pm). He said it's super easy and uses nothing from college. Second friend is a drilling engineer who makes $95K and works probably 80 hours for two weeks then gets one week off.

2/21/12

The real earning potential comes down to where you top out at, imo. Finance gives you the best chance to make 500k+/year. There are no comparable industries. None. Not entertainment, not legal, not high tech, not energy, not consulting.

There are a few industries/professions where 150k-200k are reasonably attainable.

If you make 250k/year as a programmer or petroleum engineer you are at the very top of the scale and likely very good at your job. That's 5 years of experience for IBD (ie: scum sucking piece of shit).

There is no real comparison.

2/21/12

apply your IBD experiences in organized pimping or drug dealing, I am sure down in Mexico they need someone with M&A skills.

2/21/12

Equity Research pays pretty well in Asia (Japan, S.Korea) Entry research assistants make around 70-80K. Once you become an associate it jumps up to 100-120K and make it to Analyst, you're looking at around 300K. Get 7~8 years of exp under your belt, you can make close to 7 figures.

Of course it's nowhere near hundreds of millions you IB monkeys are probably aiming for, but considering you have almost zero risk of losing your job in ER, great work-life balance, and decent exit opps, it's definitely a good life. You do however have to be bilingual in Japanese/Korean and English and you'll find yourself doing a LOT of translation work in your first 2-3 years.

In reply to Achiral
2/21/12

I'll assume you mean outside of other finance jobs, like hedge funds and ER.

Big Law has already been mentioned.

Sales within a f500 can do well, especially if they can build their own book of business. Generally not IB MD level, but still very good.

Real Estate is, or was, surprisingly profitable. Of course, it depends on the broader market as well.

The commodities giants (glencore, cargill, etc.) also pay near finance salaries, but they make you prove yourself for a few years before your pay jumps.

Achiral:

I like how this website denies the existence of the medical profession.

Old, but still rather true: http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html

Medicine is not something that makes financial sense; 4 extra years of school and then 3-6 years of what amounts to a living wage. Also, you have to consider the 200k+ in debt you wrack up in medical school.

Doctors can make money, but most involve starting an entrepreneurial venture in an in-demand niche. Like a dermatologist who starts their own skin care line. And yes, top neurosurgeons can make $1mm+, but they are the absolute best and brightest of the already qualified applicant pool.

2/21/12

Actuary

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them

2/21/12

To all of you guys championing Accounting/Medicine/BigLaw/Consulting/CorpFin, please stop.

Accounting:
First off, that promotion chart is very dubious. I know senior accountants working at Big 4 firms, and they do not make anywhere near that amount. The only way to make a shitload of money in accounting is to open your own firm, and it's a lot harder than it sounds. In the unlikely event that you are some kind of accounting rain maker at a Big 4, and you do make $450,000 after 17 years on the job (+2 yrs for MBA/Masters), while a respectable amount of money, it is nothing compared to IBD. If you stuck around in IBD that long, you would most certainly be an MD, and would be making ~$1 MM.

Medicine:
The best part of Medicine is not the money, it is the satisfaction of curing people, and the ultimate job security. Yes, the money is pretty good, and you'll be making guaranteed 6-figures for the rest of your life, but keep in mind that you won't be able to enter the work-force before you're 30 (22 yrs+4 yrs Med School+4 yrs Residency). And when you add up all those lost years, IBD beats Medicine decisively.

Big Law:
I have personal experience in this field. When I was in college, I wanted to be a lawyer. I even took the LSAT my sophomore year. But after my BB IBD internships (which at the time I did to be more competitive for Wachtell), I opted for the IBD>PE route.

Moving on... While it is true that 1st year Associates get $160,000 a year (plus a small bonus), it does not get much higher than this as you progress. I know for a fact that a 7th year Associate at Skadden got $302k all in. Whereas a VP3 would be clearing ~$650,000 after putting in the same number of years after grad school.

Consulting:
It consists of a shit-ton of traveling, and if you don't want to waste half your life in commute, and don't care about the "perks", there is very little reason to do it. Besides, the pay is much lower than IBD at pretty much every level. If you can't tell already, I'm not a fan of Consulting. However, it has excellent placement into B-School/Corp Strat, so if that's your thing, by all means go for it.

CorpFin:
This a really nice gig at the F100 level, but this is a lifestyle job. Sure you'll get awesome benefits, and 40-hour weeks, but you'll never be making as much as Banking at the corresponding level.

Bottom Line:
If you want to make more than Banking, go to PE/HF. Audio, provided that you graduated from a Top B-School, you could easily make the transition to PE with some hustle.

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

2/21/12

How come nobody mentioned starting your own business?

4 LEGIT ways to make REAL money in America

1) Banking - Cyclic; more of a right time, right place thing IMO.. For all the upcoming monkeys including myself I think we're kinda fucked, at least for the next few years
2) Law - Similar to entry level banking but banking sky rockets in salary at senior levels; plus opportunity cost
3) Medicine - Largest opportunity cost
4) Start your own business - Biggest risk, biggest payout

In reply to Leonidas
2/21/12
Leonidas:

Big Law:
I have personal experience in this field. When I was in college, I wanted to be a lawyer. I even took the LSAT my sophomore year.

Soooooo much experience.

Actuaries make good money for 40 hour work weeks

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

In reply to FlakieBear
2/21/12
FlakieBear:

Actuary

If you can get through those monstrous exams that take on average 10 years to complete... I believe an FSA or FCAS will make 250k-300k without even being a manager. This is truly the high-paying 40-hour/week job, much better work/life than Corporate Finance, where you will be putting in MORE hours as you move up to the manager or director levels.

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

2/21/12

who said that actuaries make more than IBD MDs? And since when does getting accepted to law school = personal experience in big law?

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

In reply to wolverine19x89
2/21/12
scottj19x89:
Leonidas:

Big Law:
I have personal experience in this field. When I was in college, I wanted to be a lawyer. I even took the LSAT my sophomore year.

Soooooo much experience.

Actuaries make good money for 40 hour work weeks

I doubt actuaries make more than IBD MDs. Besides, getting certified as an actuary takes 10+ years. And since I was accepted to HYS Law School, I think I'm qualified to speak on it, which is more than I can say for you.

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

In reply to wolverine19x89
2/21/12
scottj19x89:

who said that actuaries make more than IBD MDs? And since when does getting accepted to law school = personal experience in big law?

That's the kind of logic that got him into HYS law school. In his dream of course

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them

In reply to wolverine19x89
2/21/12
scottj19x89:

who said that actuaries make more than IBD MDs? And since when does getting accepted to law school = personal experience in big law?

The OP was about jobs paying more than wait for it... *IB*, and not relative to the hours put in. Getting into HYS might not=BigLaw exp, but after I got my decision in December, I went to the Law School to check it out, and talked at length with several 2L/3Ls who had V10 offers in hand. It was then that I finalized my decision to defer my enrollment for my 2-year Analyst stint. Hope I cleared that up.

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

In reply to Leonidas
2/21/12
Leonidas:
scottj19x89:

who said that actuaries make more than IBD MDs? And since when does getting accepted to law school = personal experience in big law?

The OP was about jobs paying more than wait for it... *IB*, and not relative to the hours put in. Getting into HYS might not=BigLaw exp, but after I got my decision in December, I went to the Law School to check it out, and talked at length with several 2L/3Ls who had V10 offers in hand. It was then that I finalized my decision to defer my enrollment for my 2-year Analyst stint. Hope I cleared that up.

Just shut up.

No one wants to read your biography.

Power and Money do not change men; they only unmask them

2/21/12

political lobbyist???

Money Never Sleeps? More like Money Never SUCKS amirite?!?!?!?

2/21/12

If you open and run a Fat Camp, you can generate unlimited income through the Weight Loss Infomercial Market.

I eat success for breakfast...with skim milk

2/21/12

Alaskan crab-fishing
Nigerian spammer
Fluffer
Moriarty-style criminal for hire
Dildo tester

In reply to Devils Advocate
2/21/12
Devils Advocate:
Achiral:

I like how this website denies the existence of the medical profession.

When you take into the account the opportunity cost of pursuing a medical degree, the cost of financing such an education, and how MDs are getting increasingly fucked in the ass by insurance premiums...f-uck no I would not ever consider that profession

This.

Anyone here mentioning anything in medicine is just plain wrong. With the way insurance is in this country I don't know how anyone willingly chooses med school. Also most of these grads have no idea what it takes to go out on your own. I heard that even a small dental practice can require a 1M+ to open. That's a huge nut to cover with competitive prices and tough insurance rules.

2/21/12
Audio:

As comp in IB continues to disappoint, I was wondering what industry paid as well as IB, and had the potential salary upside of IB for an associate / VP - any ideas? Does corporate pay as well? How much would a Business Development director earn at a Fortune 500 company?

How about consulting? Pros/cons?

Consulting, a lot of people have commented on the travel but it's still mainly M-Th. International projects will take you out of the mix, but you can always travel back on the weekends. And you're always travelling business - not that domestic first class crap. The other thing is that you won't always be staffed on a project - and at times will be 'on the beach' for a couple of weeks or so.

You don't have the same upside until you hit partner but it's a pretty decent way to go if you're covering an industry that you actually like.

Also, it's great for moving into a corp dev/bus dev role at a more senior level.

2/21/12

I am surprised no one mentioned commodities trading, particularly oil trading and also oil brokering.

2/21/12

Commodities trading / oil brokering sounds very interesting... I don't know enough about how that works though. I have a friend at a Trafigura / Vitol type place and he does well for himself.

2/21/12

If you're contrarian, you get into IB now.

2/21/12

I'm in bus dev. / corp dev job for an oil and gas midstream company. Those roles are well respected in the industry and probably pay more than most other bus dev type roles. The hours are good and pay is good. Start at ~55K + 10-20% bonus plus 5-10% retirement matching. After 3-4 years you are making 100K in salary with same bonus and matching. (all in around 130K).

Stay for a few years and you have long term incentives which can be 50-100K over a few years. Someone in their late twenties can be all in comped at 150-200K

Approx 50hrs/wk with some weeks being more depending on work flow. Industry is known for headhunting directors in bus dev / corp dev and directors could be all in comped anywhere from 300-500K. Downside is that you are pretty much stuck in cities that only offer O&G, which is not true of certain professions like law or consulting.

Best would be to lateral into a trading / commercial type role if you fit that profile. You have to be in it for a few years, but if you prove your worth you can literally make the same as IBD for way less hours (if you're good, since it's all performance based). With a good year, bonusses can be multiples of salaries.

In reply to Jay HK
2/21/12
Ajay4hk:
Audio:

As comp in IB continues to disappoint, I was wondering what industry paid as well as IB, and had the potential salary upside of IB for an associate / VP - any ideas? Does corporate pay as well? How much would a Business Development director earn at a Fortune 500 company?

How about consulting? Pros/cons?

Consulting, a lot of people have commented on the travel but it's still mainly M-Th. International projects will take you out of the mix, but you can always travel back on the weekends. And you're always travelling business - not that domestic first class crap. The other thing is that you won't always be staffed on a project - and at times will be 'on the beach' for a couple of weeks or so.

You dont state your credentials so this is dubious at best. How do you plan on flying back on the weekends from international travel? That doesn't even make sense dude. Have you been on an airplane before???? You're in Bahrain on a project but live in Chicago . . . sure you're going to be flying home.

In reply to globalmacro
2/21/12
globalmacro:

I'm in bus dev. / corp dev job for an oil and gas midstream company. Those roles are well respected in the industry and probably pay more than most other bus dev type roles. The hours are good and pay is good. Start at ~55K + 10-20% bonus plus 5-10% retirement matching. After 3-4 years you are making 100K in salary with same bonus and matching. (all in around 130K).

Stay for a few years and you have long term incentives which can be 50-100K over a few years. Someone in their late twenties can be all in comped at 150-200K

Approx 50hrs/wk with some weeks being more depending on work flow. Industry is known for headhunting directors in bus dev / corp dev and directors could be all in comped anywhere from 300-500K. Downside is that you are pretty much stuck in cities that only offer O&G, which is not true of certain professions like law or consulting.

Best would be to lateral into a trading / commercial type role if you fit that profile. You have to be in it for a few years, but if you prove your worth you can literally make the same as IBD for way less hours (if you're good, since it's all performance based). With a good year, bonusses can be multiples of salaries.

I have great interest in the oil industry (i am Nigerian w. family who are oil engineers/ a friend whose dad owns an oil shipping company) and would like to know how u got this biz dev/corp dev role. Can u get in straight from undergrad? if not, what entry level positions would u suggest (other than IB obviously) if the end game is corp dev at a major oil company?

In reply to GentlemanJack
2/21/12
GentlemanJack:
Ajay4hk:
Audio:

As comp in IB continues to disappoint, I was wondering what industry paid as well as IB, and had the potential salary upside of IB for an associate / VP - any ideas? Does corporate pay as well? How much would a Business Development director earn at a Fortune 500 company?

How about consulting? Pros/cons?

Consulting, a lot of people have commented on the travel but it's still mainly M-Th. International projects will take you out of the mix, but you can always travel back on the weekends. And you're always travelling business - not that domestic first class crap. The other thing is that you won't always be staffed on a project - and at times will be 'on the beach' for a couple of weeks or so.

You dont state your credentials so this is dubious at best. How do you plan on flying back on the weekends from international travel? That doesn't even make sense dude. Have you been on an airplane before???? You're in Bahrain on a project but live in Chicago . . . sure you're going to be flying home.

Hey - I've got three consultants in my immediate family who do this on a regular basis, mainly between NY and London/Zurich/Paris - not saying you're going to be running back home every weekend and it depends on where your project is of course. Bahrain is a stretch - but doing an 8 hr flight every few wkds is more than manageable.

Yes, I've been on my share of airplanes.

In reply to Achiral
2/21/12
Achiral:

I like how this website denies the existence of the medical profession.

Not really apples to apples. Sure, after school and residencey you get paid around what you make in IB for less hours but you're also a) about 8 years behind your peers that went into banking b) generally saddled with significant debt on top of whatever you came out of UG with c) getting roughly 2nd or 3rd year IB pay after going through all that.

So yes, you can make the same money but you'll be almost a decade older, in more debt and will have gone through significant steps to get there.

If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses - Henry Ford

In reply to Leonidas
2/21/12
Leonidas:
scottj19x89:
Leonidas:

Big Law:
I have personal experience in this field. When I was in college, I wanted to be a lawyer. I even took the LSAT my sophomore year.

Soooooo much experience.

Actuaries make good money for 40 hour work weeks

I doubt actuaries make more than IBD MDs. Besides, getting certified as an actuary takes 10+ years. And since I was accepted to HYS Law School, I think I'm qualified to speak on it, which is more than I can say for you.

How the fuck does getting accepted to HYS Law School qualify you to speak to IBD or Actuarial work? All that says is you're an uber nerd with a 4.0 UG GPA and 178 LSAT. Having worked with a number of people with those stats, I can tell you it's far short of a guarantee that you have any clue what the fuck you're doing on the job. You're a 22 year old kid that's probably never worked a day in your life; stop trying to kick knowledge to people that actually have experience.

In reply to GentlemanJack
2/21/12
GentlemanJack:
Ajay4hk:
Audio:

As comp in IB continues to disappoint, I was wondering what industry paid as well as IB, and had the potential salary upside of IB for an associate / VP - any ideas? Does corporate pay as well? How much would a Business Development director earn at a Fortune 500 company?

How about consulting? Pros/cons?

Consulting, a lot of people have commented on the travel but it's still mainly M-Th. International projects will take you out of the mix, but you can always travel back on the weekends. And you're always travelling business - not that domestic first class crap. The other thing is that you won't always be staffed on a project - and at times will be 'on the beach' for a couple of weeks or so.

You dont state your credentials so this is dubious at best. How do you plan on flying back on the weekends from international travel? That doesn't even make sense dude. Have you been on an airplane before???? You're in Bahrain on a project but live in Chicago . . . sure you're going to be flying home.

GJ - I think you have some good insight to share on work and personal life and I enjoy reading what you have to write, but honestly your writing makes you sound like an asshole. I think you would be better off not being so condescending all the time and assuming that you are the only one who knows what you're talking about, because you aren't.

Hi, Eric Stratton, rush chairman, damn glad to meet you.

In reply to GentlemanJack
2/21/12
GentlemanJack:
Ajay4hk:
Audio:

As comp in IB continues to disappoint, I was wondering what industry paid as well as IB, and had the potential salary upside of IB for an associate / VP - any ideas? Does corporate pay as well? How much would a Business Development director earn at a Fortune 500 company?

How about consulting? Pros/cons?

Consulting, a lot of people have commented on the travel but it's still mainly M-Th. International projects will take you out of the mix, but you can always travel back on the weekends. And you're always travelling business - not that domestic first class crap. The other thing is that you won't always be staffed on a project - and at times will be 'on the beach' for a couple of weeks or so.

You dont state your credentials so this is dubious at best. How do you plan on flying back on the weekends from international travel? That doesn't even make sense dude. Have you been on an airplane before???? You're in Bahrain on a project but live in Chicago . . . sure you're going to be flying home.

You keep talking about your IBM frame of reference, which doesn't translate to other shops. Even the Big4 consulting arms are generous with travel / expenses compared to what you're talking about, and they are a far cry from the likes of MBB, which are quite frankly, lavish. Example: a friend that recently left Mckinsey, had his former project team fly him from Chicago to South Africa where they were having a project close party. They covered his air, hotel, food, and everything else for a week. They basically have like 20% expense budget on top of project fees, and they can spend it however they see fit.

IBM is a big name consulting shop, but it isn't in the game of selling services at premium rates. It's selling commodity IT work. That's why it pimps the hell out of its resources, ships you to Columbia and Bahrain, gives you shit about spending more than $10 on breakfast, and tells you to smile while taking it in the ass. The other places I listed aren't like that (except maybe Accenture).

In reply to djfiii
2/21/12
djfiii:

You keep talking about your IBM frame of reference, which doesn't translate to other shops. Even the Big4 consulting arms are generous with travel / expenses compared to what you're talking about, and they are a far cry from the likes of MBB.

IBM is a big name consulting shop, but it isn't in the game of selling services at premium rates. It's selling commodity IT work. That's why it pimps the hell out of its resources, ships you to Columbia and Bahrain, gives you shit about spending more than $10 on breakfast, and tells you to smile while taking it in the ass. The other places I listed aren't like that (except maybe Accenture).

Once again, my posts from the very beginning have had little to do with expenses. I'm referring more to the time away from home and total personal time you will spend on consulting. As I said earlier, I would much rather work 80hrs/week in IB and still be home all week than work a 4/10 (whatever) in consulting on the road

In reply to Jay HK
2/21/12
Ajay4hk:
GentlemanJack:
Ajay4hk:
Audio:

As comp in IB continues to disappoint, I was wondering what industry paid as well as IB, and had the potential salary upside of IB for an associate / VP - any ideas? Does corporate pay as well? How much would a Business Development director earn at a Fortune 500 company?

How about consulting? Pros/cons?

Consulting, a lot of people have commented on the travel but it's still mainly M-Th. International projects will take you out of the mix, but you can always travel back on the weekends. And you're always travelling business - not that domestic first class crap. The other thing is that you won't always be staffed on a project - and at times will be 'on the beach' for a couple of weeks or so.

You dont state your credentials so this is dubious at best. How do you plan on flying back on the weekends from international travel? That doesn't even make sense dude. Have you been on an airplane before???? You're in Bahrain on a project but live in Chicago . . . sure you're going to be flying home.

Hey - I've got three consultants in my immediate family who do this on a regular basis, mainly between NY and London/Zurich/Paris - not saying you're going to be running back home every weekend and it depends on where your project is of course. Bahrain is a stretch - but doing an 8 hr flight every few wkds is more than manageable.

Yes, I've been on my share of airplanes.

Well you're obviously backtracking from your previous statement and that's good, because you were clearly off. Regardless there is a HUGE difference between being home every weekend and "every few wkds" as you put it. I've said this before in other threads - maybe it's age. If youre 20-something, live with roommates in some craptastic apartment, then maybe spending the weekend away at a Hilton is actually an upgrade. But I've built a nice life for myself and I value my personal time at home doing the things that I want to do.

In reply to GentlemanJack
2/21/12
GentlemanJack:
djfiii:

You keep talking about your IBM frame of reference, which doesn't translate to other shops. Even the Big4 consulting arms are generous with travel / expenses compared to what you're talking about, and they are a far cry from the likes of MBB.

IBM is a big name consulting shop, but it isn't in the game of selling services at premium rates. It's selling commodity IT work. That's why it pimps the hell out of its resources, ships you to Columbia and Bahrain, gives you shit about spending more than $10 on breakfast, and tells you to smile while taking it in the ass. The other places I listed aren't like that (except maybe Accenture).

Once again, my posts from the very beginning have had little to do with expenses. I'm referring more to the time away from home and total personal time you will spend on consulting. As I said earlier, I would much rather work 80hrs/week in IB and still be home all week than work a 4/10 (whatever) in consulting on the road

Well, not really. You were harping on the travel simultaneously with the idea that the firms also tell you to get fucked when it comes to expensing things. I'm agreeing about the hours portion of it, and the travel sucks , but the expense side of it depends on the firm - and I'm saying that most firms are pretty good about that, particularly when you get staffed on projects that deviate from the M-Th travel model.

Certainly, the hours are there, and the time away from home sucks. And if your point is that IB is preferable because you get to sleep in your own bed each night (even if only for 4 hours), then I won't argue that. Being on the road 100% is a grind. But MOST of the higher end consulting shops staff people M-Th on site, and when a project deviates from that (either because of international assignment, or client demands, etc) then resources are made available to make it more palatable (i.e. the things I mentioned before, like corporate housing, laundry service, better meal reimbursement, other allowances that you wouldn't get for M-Th travel, etc.)

Example: a while back I was looking at a 3 year project in Singapore, and pretty much everything was covered. Full cost of housing, cost of air freight up to 700 lbs of my crap that I wanted to haul over, full coverage of the $8k it was going to cost to ship my dogs and quarantine them, etc. On top of that everything you could think of being covered, there was $40k relo for "incidentals" that weren't explicitly covered. The point is - most of the higher end firms are charging rates that allow them to provide that type of accommodation to their resources.

In reply to GentlemanJack
2/21/12
GentlemanJack:
Ajay4hk:
GentlemanJack:
Ajay4hk:
Audio:

As comp in IB continues to disappoint, I was wondering what industry paid as well as IB, and had the potential salary upside of IB for an associate / VP - any ideas? Does corporate pay as well? How much would a Business Development director earn at a Fortune 500 company?

How about consulting? Pros/cons?

Consulting, a lot of people have commented on the travel but it's still mainly M-Th. International projects will take you out of the mix, but you can always travel back on the weekends. And you're always travelling business - not that domestic first class crap. The other thing is that you won't always be staffed on a project - and at times will be 'on the beach' for a couple of weeks or so.

You dont state your credentials so this is dubious at best. How do you plan on flying back on the weekends from international travel? That doesn't even make sense dude. Have you been on an airplane before???? You're in Bahrain on a project but live in Chicago . . . sure you're going to be flying home.

Hey - I've got three consultants in my immediate family who do this on a regular basis, mainly between NY and London/Zurich/Paris - not saying you're going to be running back home every weekend and it depends on where your project is of course. Bahrain is a stretch - but doing an 8 hr flight every few wkds is more than manageable.

Yes, I've been on my share of airplanes.

Well you're obviously backtracking from your previous statement and that's good, because you were clearly off. Regardless there is a HUGE difference between being home every weekend and "every few wkds" as you put it. I've said this before in other threads - maybe it's age. If youre 20-something, live with roommates in some craptastic apartment, then maybe spending the weekend away at a Hilton is actually an upgrade. But I've built a nice life for myself and I value my personal time at home doing the things that I want to do.

Yep - I wasn't clear in my initial post but just pointed out that you can be back home when you need to, and a lot of consultants with families (including my wife and I) manage to balance this reasonably well. I've found that MBB all try to be flexible re: work/life balance, Bain in particular.

And agreed, 20 somethings look forward to being away (although I can't imagine any MBB consultants staying in a Hilton). If you're not into the constant travel - fair enough. We're just used to the travel having grown up overseas and don't have an issue going back and forth. All the best

In reply to djfiii
2/21/12
djfiii:
GentlemanJack:
djfiii:

You keep talking about your IBM frame of reference, which doesn't translate to other shops. Even the Big4 consulting arms are generous with travel / expenses compared to what you're talking about, and they are a far cry from the likes of MBB.

IBM is a big name consulting shop, but it isn't in the game of selling services at premium rates. It's selling commodity IT work. That's why it pimps the hell out of its resources, ships you to Columbia and Bahrain, gives you shit about spending more than $10 on breakfast, and tells you to smile while taking it in the ass. The other places I listed aren't like that (except maybe Accenture).

Once again, my posts from the very beginning have had little to do with expenses. I'm referring more to the time away from home and total personal time you will spend on consulting. As I said earlier, I would much rather work 80hrs/week in IB and still be home all week than work a 4/10 (whatever) in consulting on the road

Well, not really. You were harping on the travel simultaneously with the idea that the firms also tell you to get fucked when it comes to expensing things. I'm agreeing about the hours portion of it, and the travel sucks , but the expense side of it depends on the firm - and I'm saying that most firms are pretty good about that, particularly when you get staffed on projects that deviate from the M-Th travel model.

You're completely ignoring the client in your scenarios. Again, as I've stated before, it doesn't matter who you work for or who you're assigned to, EVERYONE is cost-conscious right now. Are you aware that the economy stinks right now? Do you really think someone at Client X is going to put their neck on the line by green-lighting a project that flies everyone first class with 3xGSA rates and a $200 per diem??? I don't care who you work for, those types of projects are very, very scarce right now.

In reply to UncleMilty
2/21/12
UncleMilty:
Achiral:

I like how this website denies the existence of the medical profession.

If you're smart enough to be an MD, you're smart enough to be an MD. The question is how ruthless and practical you are.

This is just completely false. The two have almost nothing to do with each other. Sure, there are smart and dumb MDs, and there are some dumb MDs who worked their asses off to get where they are today, but on AVERAGE, I'd think it's pretty clear that MDs are way smarter than MDs. What are you judging intelligence by? Certainly not how much money they make, so are you including street smarts? And how good at making a sales they are? Because I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who would include that as part of "smart" (unless you're asking stupid people who feel insecure about their intelligence and need to validate themselves by saying that being able to pitch and makes sales is part of being "smart")

2/21/12
GentlemanJack:

You're completely ignoring the client in your scenarios. Again, as I've stated before, it doesn't matter who you work for or who you're assigned to, EVERYONE is cost-conscious right now. Are you aware that the economy stinks right now? Do you really think someone at Client X is going to put their neck on the line by green-lighting a project that flies everyone first class with 3xGSA rates and a $200 per diem??? I don't care who you work for, those types of projects are very, very scarce right now.

I'm not ignoring anything. It has less to do with the client, and more to do with the service being provided. As previously stated, IBM provides commodity IT service (and shitty service at that - I hear nothing but complaints across my F500 contacts that engage IBM for implementation work), so of course they can't charge more and their margins are tight. Higher end places are able to charge higher bill rates, and higher expenses. I don't know what else you want me to say about it. Your only frame of reference is IBM, and your position is just flat out wrong because you're trying to apply it across the whole industry. I'm still very plugged in to MBB, LEK, Monitor, OW, and the Big4 - and they are all doing fine. In the last 12-18 months, project revenue has been exploding.

In reply to djfiii
2/21/12
djfiii:
GentlemanJack:

You're completely ignoring the client in your scenarios. Again, as I've stated before, it doesn't matter who you work for or who you're assigned to, EVERYONE is cost-conscious right now. Are you aware that the economy stinks right now? Do you really think someone at Client X is going to put their neck on the line by green-lighting a project that flies everyone first class with 3xGSA rates and a $200 per diem??? I don't care who you work for, those types of projects are very, very scarce right now.

I'm not ignoring anything. It has less to do with the client, and more to do with the service being provided. As previously stated, IBM provides commodity IT service (and shitty service at that - I hear nothing but complaints across my F500 contacts that engage IBM for implementation work), so of course they can't charge more and their margins are tight. Higher end places are able to charge higher bill rates, and higher expenses. I don't know what else you want me to say about it. Your only frame of reference is IBM, and your position is just flat out wrong because you're trying to apply it across the whole industry. I'm still very plugged in to MBB, LEK, Monitor, OW, and the Big4 - and they are all doing fine. In the last 12-18 months, project revenue has been exploding.

OY VEY!

"Project revenue exploding" is not the same as consulting being a better gig. Have you ever thought to wonder that maybe it's exploding because the costs are being cut from other places??? Move everyone from first to coach and the Hilton to Holiday Inn and - tada! - project revenue explodes.

Do you think those partners are telling clients, "Yeah, we'd like to take you on but unless you keep my guys at the Hilton we're pulling our bid . . ." Seriously, man, get with it.

2/21/12

Wow, so many things wrong....

First, I didn't express an opinion about Consulting being better than IB (even though my opinion is just that). In fact, I clearly said if your beef was the travel, then I can't argue with IB as the better alternative where you get to sleep in your own bed.

Second, let's start with Accounting 101. Revenue is gross $$ in the door. So cutting costs does nothing to revenue. Seriously? And you're trying to drop knowledge on other people?

Anyhoo, I'm done arguing with you. The IBM Tivoli Access Manager grunt tells the rest of us how it is. Gotcha.

In reply to djfiii
2/21/12
djfiii:

How the fuck does getting accepted to HYS Law School qualify you to speak to IBD or Actuarial work? All that says is you're an uber nerd with a 4.0 UG GPA and 178 LSAT. Having worked with a number of people with those stats, I can tell you it's far short of a guarantee that you have any clue what the fuck you're doing on the job. You're a 22 year old kid that's probably never worked a day in your life; stop trying to kick knowledge to people that actually have experience.

First off, take a deep breath. Done? Good.

Scott is a college freshman. I am a 2nd year Analyst at a BB. We were talking about Big Law, not IBD. He was referring to my (rather large) post on the first page. Now, if you disagree with any of the points there, state your case, and I would be only too happy to debate you. However, in future, I would advise you to remove that gigantic chip on your shoulder before you start reading. You will see a dramatic improvement in your reading comprehension.

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

2/21/12

djfiii is right here (on the consulting discussion).

2/21/12

I wasn't referring to your whole post, I was referring to you saying that you have experience with Big Law when you have 0. and I'm not a freshman

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

In reply to wolverine19x89
2/21/12
scottj19x89:

I wasn't referring to your whole post, I was referring to you saying that you have experience with Big Law when you have 0. and I'm not a freshman

Yes, I suppose I should have made it clearer. I had no idea it would be misconstrued this far. Since my 2-year deferral is almost up, I have been thinking about Law School quite a bit recently.

A while back, you posted a thread about double majoring in Finance & CS, and said that you were only beginning to take intro classes in programming. Since most people experiment with different courses in Frosh and declare their major sometime in their Sophomore year, I inferred that you were a freshman. Out of curiosity, what year are you in?

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

2/21/12

I have junior standing due to me studying music before coming here. Most kids my age have graduated college, but I have a different path I guess.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

In reply to wolverine19x89
2/21/12
scottj19x89:

I have junior standing due to me studying music before coming here. Most kids my age have graduated college, but I have a different path I guess.

Can you just start a major from scratch in your junior year? I transferred from a super-non-target (we had lifeguard "internships" through our career center) to an Ivy, and I had to declare my major immediately upon entering as a junior having already taken the prerequisites in Frosh/Soph.

Thanks btw for introducing me to Madeon via the music thread. That kid is sick.

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over to your property and break your windows.

2/21/12

Yeah he is ha... and I guess I can, I originally came here with Sophomore standing, if that makes a difference, but my counselor doesn't seem to think that this will be a problem.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough.

"There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.

In reply to Leonidas
2/21/12
Leonidas:
djfiii:

How the fuck does getting accepted to HYS Law School qualify you to speak to IBD or Actuarial work? All that says is you're an uber nerd with a 4.0 UG GPA and 178 LSAT. Having worked with a number of people with those stats, I can tell you it's far short of a guarantee that you have any clue what the fuck you're doing on the job. You're a 22 year old kid that's probably never worked a day in your life; stop trying to kick knowledge to people that actually have experience.

First off, take a deep breath. Done? Good.

Scott is a college freshman. I am a 2nd year Analyst at a BB. We were talking about Big Law, not IBD. He was referring to my (rather large) post on the first page. Now, if you disagree with any of the points there, state your case, and I would be only too happy to debate you. However, in future, I would advise you to remove that gigantic chip on your shoulder before you start reading. You will see a dramatic improvement in your reading comprehension.

fair point. that was a douchetastic post on my part.

In reply to djfiii
2/21/12

excessively douchey post removed by the author.

In reply to djfiii
2/21/12
In reply to GentlemanJack
2/21/12
GentlemanJack:
djfiii:
GentlemanJack:
djfiii:

You keep talking about your IBM frame of reference, which doesn't translate to other shops. Even the Big4 consulting arms are generous with travel / expenses compared to what you're talking about, and they are a far cry from the likes of MBB.

IBM is a big name consulting shop, but it isn't in the game of selling services at premium rates. It's selling commodity IT work. That's why it pimps the hell out of its resources, ships you to Columbia and Bahrain, gives you shit about spending more than $10 on breakfast, and tells you to smile while taking it in the ass. The other places I listed aren't like that (except maybe Accenture).

Once again, my posts from the very beginning have had little to do with expenses. I'm referring more to the time away from home and total personal time you will spend on consulting. As I said earlier, I would much rather work 80hrs/week in IB and still be home all week than work a 4/10 (whatever) in consulting on the road

Well, not really. You were harping on the travel simultaneously with the idea that the firms also tell you to get fucked when it comes to expensing things. I'm agreeing about the hours portion of it, and the travel sucks , but the expense side of it depends on the firm - and I'm saying that most firms are pretty good about that, particularly when you get staffed on projects that deviate from the M-Th travel model.

You're completely ignoring the client in your scenarios. Again, as I've stated before, it doesn't matter who you work for or who you're assigned to, EVERYONE is cost-conscious right now. Are you aware that the economy stinks right now? Do you really think someone at Client X is going to put their neck on the line by green-lighting a project that flies everyone first class with 3xGSA rates and a $200 per diem??? I don't care who you work for, those types of projects are very, very scarce right now.

You should listen to the people who have experience in areas that you are trying to talk about. About the only thing in common between IBM and MBB is they both call themselves consultants. IBM does commodity work, they get hired because they can do it cheaper than the next guy. McKinsey gets hired because it's McKinsey, even though we charge on average 25-30% higher fees than the next most expensive shop. That's just the way it is. No EM is going to tolerate his team being put up in a Holiday Inn. If the client is that price-sensitive we recommend they look elsewhere.

In reply to Powerpoint Jockey
2/21/12
Powerpoint Jockey:

No EM is going to tolerate his team being put up in a Holiday Inn. If the client is that price-sensitive we recommend they look elsewhere.

I want you to show me one, just ONE, manager/partner/whatever that would make this a showstopper. If you do, I'll show you someone who isn't going to be in their position for very long. Crap rolls downhill and there's no way they're going to pass up the rip on an engagement all because the guy on the ground doesn't do the Holiday Inn.

"Yeah, I've been working your deal for the past 2 years, countless late nights with your RFP and my bonus is riding on this deal . . . but I'm going to pass because my people don't do the Holiday Inn. Instead of taking my guys off the bench, I'm going to keep them there. Go call my competition . . ."

You have to be out of your fucking mind if you truly believe this to be the case.

In reply to GentlemanJack
2/21/12
GentlemanJack:
Powerpoint Jockey:

No EM is going to tolerate his team being put up in a Holiday Inn. If the client is that price-sensitive we recommend they look elsewhere.

I want you to show me one, just ONE, manager/partner/whatever that would make this a showstopper. If you do, I'll show you someone who isn't going to be in their position for very long. Crap rolls downhill and there's no way they're going to pass up the rip on an engagement all because the guy on the ground doesn't do the Holiday Inn.

"Yeah, I've been working your deal for the past 2 years, countless late nights with your RFP and my bonus is riding on this deal . . . but I'm going to pass because my people don't do the Holiday Inn. Instead of taking my guys off the bench, I'm going to keep them there. Go call my competition . . ."

You have to be out of your fucking mind if you truly believe this to be the case.

You're out of your league Donny.

The point is that that conversation never happens because that situation isn't allowed to happen. It's not like the team has been working with a client and then the client gets pushy about the cost. Clients know what they're getting in to and when they're in the proposal stage we make it clear what our prices are. It's not like the client doesn't know what it's going to cost. And yes, I've seen some drastic things happen because of what the team felt were unacceptable lifestyles.

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