Money, prestige, and values

I think it's fair to say that most of us in finance are motivated in large part by money. One of the reasons why people on WSO care so much about working at certain firms is the lure of the bonuses as well as exit opportunities for jobs that pay even more.

There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to make lots of money. As long as you're not hurting others, this is not a moral issue in my opinion. However, the older I get, the more fascinated I am by what truly drives us to work so hard. Is it just the comfort and freedom that money brings, or is it the social prestige and respect that often come with having "made" it?

What drives us is ultimately inextricably linked to our core values. I find it refreshing to interact with those otuside of finance who care little about money and instead strive for other things. Recently, I had chance to have dinner with a good friend of mine who attended arguably the most selective college and law schools in America. His resume, academically, is about as blue-chip as you can get.

Despite his credentials, however, my friend chose not to work at a lucrative law firm; instead he opted to work in an area that does not pay well at all because he is so passionate about it. As a finance guy, such a decision seemed somewhat irrational. I asked him why he would choose to work so hard to go to top schools but not take advantage of the financial rewards. He replied that at a certain level, once his basic needs are met, he has a hard time working just for the sake of monetary compensation. There needs to be something deeper there in order to be fulfilled. This is not to say that he does not care about prestige. Far from it. But he defines prestige very differently from us finance folks.

I have actually found this to be the case for a lot of VERY smart talented people. These include rhodes/marshall scholars, top econ/hard science Phd's, etc. This is not to say that they are somehow morally superior to use. They're not. But I am intrigued by why talented people make certain types of decisions, especially ones that do not lead to an immediate material benefit. Perhaps the most famous examples of this are Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, who spurned law firm offers to pursue public service.

For some, it is a raw thirst for power, for purposes of self-aggrandizement. For others, they believe that their talents can be best used to serve the general good rather than harnessing it to make money. In this sense, I think finance does tend to attract those who are the most practical, seemingly unaffected by lofty goals of idealism. Rather we tend to think about the immediate cost-benefit payoffs of our jobs and other decisions we make. Again, I'm not saying that one type of person is better than the other. It's just interesting to see how smart people can arrive at such different conclusions on what's important to them.

 
RichardPennybags:
Or you could just be tired of being poor ... have a parents or family to support.
amen brother. I met a post MBA M&A associate that switched to finance because he was sick to death of working his balls off at a job he hated to support his family. His wife wanted to live in NYC, he wanted OUT, and finance was the opportunity.

I did it because it was the most ambitious thing I could think of at the time. I actually don't care about money at all once my bills are paid and some funding goes into my retirement account. Everyone's different.

Get busy living
 
UFOinsider:
RichardPennybags:
Or you could just be tired of being poor ... have a parents or family to support.
amen brother. I met a post MBA M&A associate that switched to finance because he was sick to death of working his balls off at a job he hated to support his family. His wife wanted to live in NYC, he wanted OUT, and finance was the opportunity.

Seems it worked out well for the MBA guy.

But he hated his job. Now, let's suppose some Maths / Phys Ph. D really loves his job (and 99% of them do). He gets to do the only thing that truly interests him, he is in his 20s when his brain works best, he has a chance to discover something exciting and new everyday, he is being paid a modest salary, has prospects of tenure track at a top university, gets to interact with extremely bright people etc... But let's suppose he has to support his family or his wife suddenly wakes up in the morning and decides she has to wear Louboutins, drive a Ferrari and live in a penthouse. Or suddenly his parents need him and any money he can get.

What should he do? Wave bye-bye to his wife and stay with his career? Take the money (assuming he can get in) and abandon the only thing he thought he was gonna be doing till the end of his days?

"Every man should lose a battle in his youth, so he does not lose a war when he is old"
 

Some people are just wired totally differently than everyone else. I agree that a lot has to do with your upbringing and the circumstances with which you are raised. To some people the epitome of life is going on one family trip once a year to someplace relatively close by. To others it's bottle service in Paris with their buddies for the weekend. I'd say that with some of the brightest and most dynamic people it could even ben an arrogance in that they know they are good and valued and thus money will always be there for them.

Or it could just be that some people do not care about maximizing value or having enough money to fill a swimming pool with 100's.

 
Cane0180:
Barrack worked at a V5 (Top 5) law firm out of law school. Sidley Austin
...and then he got his mom out of his head and followed his true passion. Had he stayed there, he wouldn't be president. I know that "community organizer" isn't what most people think of as a springboard to global power, but did anyone honestly think Reagan as a b-list actor would be president in 1960?

Not taking sides...just arguing for the hell of it because I'm stuck in a shitty bar in the train station :/

Get busy living
 
UFOinsider:
Cane0180:
Barrack worked at a V5 (Top 5) law firm out of law school. Sidley Austin
...and then he got his mom out of his head and followed his true passion. Had he stayed there, he wouldn't be president. I know that "community organizer" isn't what most people think of as a springboard to global power, but did anyone honestly think Reagan as a b-list actor would be president in 1960?

Not taking sides...just arguing for the hell of it because I'm stuck in a shitty bar in the train station :/

You're right, he eventually did commit to public service. I was pointing out that initially he chased the dollar. In any event, it's irrelevant; bad post by me.

 
Arbitrage1980:
I think it's fair to say that most of us in finance are motivated in large part by money. One of the reasons why people on WSO care so much about working at certain firms is the lure of the bonuses as well as exit opportunities for jobs that pay even more.

There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to make lots of money. As long as you're not hurting others, this is not a moral issue in my opinion. However, the older I get, the more fascinated I am by what truly drives us to work so hard. Is it just the comfort and freedom that money brings, or is it the social prestige and respect that often come with having "made" it?

What drives us is ultimately inextricably linked to our core values. I find it refreshing to interact with those otuside of finance who care little about money and instead strive for other things. Recently, I had chance to have dinner with a good friend of mine who attended arguably the most selective college and law schools in America. His resume, academically, is about as blue-chip as you can get.

Despite his credentials, however, my friend chose not to work at a lucrative law firm; instead he opted to work in an area that does not pay well at all because he is so passionate about it. As a finance guy, such a decision seemed somewhat irrational. I asked him why he would choose to work so hard to go to top schools but not take advantage of the financial rewards. He replied that at a certain level, once his basic needs are met, he has a hard time working just for the sake of monetary compensation. There needs to be something deeper there in order to be fulfilled. This is not to say that he does not care about prestige. Far from it. But he defines prestige very differently from us finance folks.

I have actually found this to be the case for a lot of VERY smart talented people. These include rhodes/marshall scholars, top econ/hard science Phd's, etc. This is not to say that they are somehow morally superior to use. They're not. But I am intrigued by why talented people make certain types of decisions, especially ones that do not lead to an immediate material benefit. Perhaps the most famous examples of this are Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, who spurned law firm offers to pursue public service.

For some, it is a raw thirst for power, for purposes of self-aggrandizement. For others, they believe that their talents can be best used to serve the general good rather than harnessing it to make money. In this sense, I think finance does tend to attract those who are the most practical, seemingly unaffected by lofty goals of idealism. Rather we tend to think about the immediate cost-benefit payoffs of our jobs and other decisions we make. Again, I'm not saying that one type of person is better than the other. It's just interesting to see how smart people can arrive at such different conclusions on what's important to them.

woooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

It is interesting to see different opinions regarding this topic. I personally feel that there should be underlying meaning to one's work beyond the money. However, I am definitely still chasing the money in a sense by pursuing finance.

 

Yeah, the first time I heard someone say "fuck you, pay me", I though it was a refreshing change to the two faced premed pricks that spent more time talking about taxes than anything while pretending to be holier than thou. You can't actually say this at work but try it on for size:

Fuck you, pay me

Get busy living
 
Best Response

Turning 18 was a little traumatic for me.

I grew up as a middle-class kid in a wealthy suburb. I had my own room. I had my own car (paid for from lawn mowing and lifeguarding money). I had reasonable parents and my childhood might as well have been painted by Norman Rockwell.

All of my friends were excited about the prospect of going off to Ivy League schools. I was, too. Folks got jealous when I got a 1600 on the SATs. When I had folks from admissions at Ivies calling me up begging me to apply.

Then one evening, early in the fall of my senior year, my parents sat me down. They told me that they had struggled together for 20 years to build up savings and to pay our house off. That they were technically millionaires, but that they could not afford $45K/year for private school. Furthermore, my Dad insisted that he had grown up without running water. That he worked his way through college. And that if I did not get a job upon graduation, I would be cast out onto the street.

Gulp. Whatever risk taking I might have been interested in that day flew out the window that evening. I was going to study computer science. And I was going to go work for Microsoft or Yahoo when I graduated, if I was lucky, or worst came to worst, go work in IT at a Chicago accounting firm.

Ever since, I have been trying to get as far away from that image of me being homeless as possible. Driving a rusty honda and having an extra $30K between you and homelessness is a lot more fun for me than driving a BMW.

 
<span class=keyword_link><a href=/resources/skills/finance/going-concern>Going Concern</a></span>:
IlliniProgrammer:
Whatever risk taking I might have been interested in that day flew out the window that evening.

But then you got it back? I thought you do a lot of hang gliding, which is a relatively risky way to spend your leisure time...not to mention the riskiness of the whole finance/investment world in general...

It's a lot less scary than finding a job as a 21-year-old kid and worrying about becoming homeless. Compared to that, hang gliding is really no big deal.
 

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"You stop being an asshole when it sucks to be you." - IlliniProgrammer

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