Is Columbia Value Investing Program losing it’s charm
I see many students in the value investing program at Columbia business school (CBS) are struggling with full time opportunities on the buy side, and rarely break into HFs
I went through profiles of multiple students and recent pass outs (2021-2025)on LinkedIn and winners of the stock pitch competitions (Pershing and Artisan) And i see a pattern that international students move back to their country try or join a small shop for sometime and move to sell side or other finance roles.
What has changed over the years?? Professors, course structures or the industry itself?
can someone please help (thoughts from insiders please)
It’s still my dream program!!
bump, interested. Have thought about this program myself
Placing into the buy side has gotten harder every year. And many of the spots that folks land don’t sponsor visas (explains the foreign student issue you’ve observed). The VI program is very useful if you’re pursuing buy side but it ain’t a golden ticket.
I am a VI program grad from within the last 10 years. I would encourage anyone to do it if you’re pursuing an MBA and want to go to the buy side, but ultimately your recruiting outcome will be heavily dependent on your specific knowledge and ability vs your participation in the program.
Thanks for your input
But most individuals are experienced with good research backgrounds (bulge bracket AM, PE, mutual funds and even some HF- DE SHAW, Susquehanna, others)
If I may ask how many of the selected 40 VIP move to good seats - I understand it’s subjective and mix of what an individual wants to achieve, but from a societal prestige perspective what were the good names
What about the long-short hedge funds, don’t they actively recruit from here - I don’t see maverick or Greenlight very keen on taking in people, even Ackman and Dan (D1) have been very vocal about taking folks from PE only
Anything you can share light on!!
You're thinking the wrong way if you're thinking about getting onto the buy side from a "societal prestige" perspective. But I digress.
In my class of 40, ballpark: 3 went to tiger cubs, 3 to pods, 10 or so to $50Bn+ AUM LOs. All the pod people were fired, 2 of the tiger cub people were fired, and 1 other tiger cub person left voluntarily - from what I hear it was a very rough seat. In fact, of the people that wound up at scaled SMs (maybe 5-6 people), I only know 1 that is still there years later - most were fired. The remaining ~25 or so went to a hodge podge of smaller HFs, LOs, sell-side, and a couple to PE/family offices/endowment/foundation.
Of the funds you mentioned, Greenlight interviewed a couple people in my class and has one VI alum I know of as an analyst. Greenlight is a shell of its former self so doesn't hire much. Same for Maverick, think a couple VI folks in the past have wound up there but none currently that I know if. The other large funds you are mentioning either don't hire from CBS, or they want specific backgrounds (PE), which very few VI members have. Places like Elliott only hire from HBS/GSB to my knowledge. Haven't heard of D1 and Tiger taking anyone. Viking has taken 1-2 people from CBS. Ackman has never hired from CBS, it's a small firm and the people who are impressive enough to land there aren't going to CBS, they're either going direct or via GSB/HBS.
Of the people that went to "prestigious" LO/HFs you are probably dreaming of working at, all had impressive pre-MBA backgrounds, think HF/PE/IB/ER. The run of the mill VI student is a career switcher to buy side or has a loosely financial background that needed the MBA to get to buy side (things like consulting).
If you are international your chances are slimmer than a domestic student at the same roles. If you are doing credit research you're not going to wind up at a tier 1 hedge fund unless it's doing credit and you impress them.
Buy side recruiting sucks ass overall, and it's rare you get more than 1-2 offers. Most people are still recruiting late into their second years, even those who intern at large funds. You take what you can get, cast a wide net and hopefully something works.
Lots of shitty funds like actual fund I-III garbage independent sponsor slop spinouts heavily brand themselves as 'opportunities to take real risk and scale to mid-level/senior quickly', give offers quickly, kids accept and therefore don't fully maximize recruiting elsewhere, those funds end up sucking ass, or don't pay well, or fire ppl soon bc they suck ass & can't close deals. Literally happens every year and the kid gets fucked cuz he believes a pipe dream
Huh? You're referring to PE. This is speaking to HF/LO.
Ah sorry
funds that like CBS kids (value, concentrated, quality, long term type SMs) just aren’t as in vogue as years ago. Now mostly pods, pod-spins, or large crossover funds, none of which fit a value investing mindset
Thank you for your inputs,
So would be the ideal MBA >>> HF track if not CBS VIP, I’m a credit analyst at BB covering EMEA. (3 yrs exp) Honestly, I’m being delusional and it’s a long shot.. but still don’t want to leave any stones unturned
Any ideal path, as based in Asia don’t want to risk taking debt burdens doing masters and land up again in middle office roles
Please advise
If you’re a career switcher coming in as an international, it’s a huge uphill battle to be very candid, regardless of VIP or not. I think the credit background will help on the credit investing side, especially as it’s not as popular as public equities, but you’ll definitely need to be prepared before getting in school
This program is a joke, very few to no serious non-value shops would aim to hire out of this. If you're interested only in value tho, go for it
I mean, this is just objectively wrong - Baron, Alger, Polen, Duquesne all have hired-out of VI program in recent years…. In addition to a few going to tiger cubs each year which are often skewed growthier. Not to mention the pods, or people going into credit seats.
Most self select into more traditional value funds but the opportunities still exist.
Thanks for your insights
So could you assist in understanding what an actual profile before getting into VIP and tilting towards these firms look like
For example - Sector expertise, understanding what moves the business (like Gavin Baker - I wish!!) or so…. Or IB/ PE/ buy side equities experience?
Also, if you can elaborate more about the candidate profiles that went to these big names
Thanks again, help please
I did the VI program at some point in the last decade. Of my 4 closest friends in the program, 1 went to a blue chip growth oriented long only (Baron / Sands / Alger / Pollen) and is still there, 1 went to a scaled, blue chip credit fund and then bounced to another credit fund, 1 went to a startup hedge fund and then a major blue chip multi strat (Elliott / DE Shaw / DK), 1 went to a solid $5bn+ fund PE firm and bounced to a slightly smaller PE firm to get his promotion to principal. I'd be surprised if a single one of them hasn't had a 7 figure year. They've probably each averaged closer to $1mm than to $500k / all own $3mm+ homes now. I am probably the biggest loser having gone to a $1-3bn single manager (which went under though I had a couple good years in the high 6 figures first) and then to a less attractive long only (American Century / Invesco / Artisan). During my post fund blow up unemployment, I was able to get interviews at blue chip long short funds (Maverick, DK, and Coatue) which I think speaks to the value of the brand and network. I do think that the program is probably less attractive than it once was. It's definitely less competitive to get into. Also, public equities is a meritocracy. If you're good, your brand won't matter that much in the long run. Vice versa, bad analysts won't be saved by good brands.
Wow, seems the program had its glory days! These days, it would be privilege for VI grad to land a job at $1-3bn fund. Most of classmate goes to $100m-$500m single manager fund and those are considered decent seat. I know some ppl taking offer from sub $100m AUM fund because having a job is a blessing. There are at least 5 people I know that is still job hunting 1 year post graduation.
Part of that is also because the industry has changed (much less seats amid AI, also long-term fundamental value style investing, both LO and L/S, are losing to passive / pods).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Advanced Value Investing class divided into four sections - one of them focusing on the L/S pod style like Hendrickson/Fixler and maybe Oro-Hahn? Does that not help?
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