RSM Erasmus - How is the placement for international students?
Hi folks,
I was eventually considering to study at RSM for my masters.
I am Italian but I don’t want/am not able to work in Milan after my studies since I am too old for the local job market and I have studied at a foreign university that nobody knows in Italy.
I decided so to apply at international universities on the side of Bocconi (but if I go there, I will only use only the ~15% of the alumni network that works abroad, I will ignore the 70% of Bocconi graduates who work in Milan, since the salaries are garbage there and the work conditions suck)
Having identified RSM and knowing the Netherlands are quite international, I wanted to know how the placement of that university is for international non-Dutch speaking students
If someone has made the experience or knows something about this university, I would be grateful.
Especially information concerning its placement, meaning where does it places, how good is it for a finance career for the internationals
Or if maybe it’s better to take the huge investment to study in the UK, since it would open a market with more English speaking jobs.
I am grateful for any advice,
Best,
A.
RSM is a really good university, but I don't think it would be your best option here.
At Master's level, you should really pick a university where you want to work:
RSM & Bocconi are good for non-locals at undergrad levels as you can leverage these good unis to find some good Masters, while also being considered for Summer Internships. However at Master's level, only the locals find Summer Internships & Off-cycles/Full-Time in London.
As a bank, why would you take a non-Dutch postgraduate from RSM when there are many candidates from London Master's programs who already have settled visa status?
The other question is also how likely is it to find English speaking jobs in the Netherlands as an international student
Is it possible to make career there especially in finance, starting there and then go to London/Luxembourg with a company transfer?
Do you have information about the English speaking job-market in the Netherlands?
Thank you so much for your comment
Sorry can't comment about that... Only know the UK & French markets :)
1. What makes you think studying at RSM will give you better odds than at Bocconi? The 15% student population heavily outweighs the RSM population in London as it is arguably the biggest non-UK feeder into London. If your goal is London, doesn’t matter if you study at RSM. Since you’re Italian you would be still pooled against other Italians, so Bocconi students predominantly and then Bocconi is much stronger (that’s what I understood how it goes at some firms, not sure if it works like this at all firms)
2. If you want to enter the Dutch market for better salaries, doing Bocconi vs RSM won’t hurt your chances, but not being able to speak Dutch will cut your job possibilities enormously as all the BB/EB/MM/Boutiques offices require Dutch (par few). Then you only have the 4 remaining large Dutch banks (Rabo/ABN/ING/Kempen), of which ING doesn’t hire non Dutch speakers for their M&A business.
3. If you look at the alumni network in London for RSM students, you will notice one thing. The predominant finance professionals who work there are mainly Dutch native speakers, as it is a target school for Dutch talent. If you don’t speak Dutch it becomes in my opinion a semi-target to low-target, and it will really depend on how strong your experience is.
If your goal is London, I would suggest to study at Bocconi as it will give you a great network especially if you want to move back to Italy one day or study at a UK target to maximise your odds.
Agree, as an Italian you should go for Bocconi or London unis.
Thank you for your comment I know 100% I won’t go back to Italy.
The market is becoming more and more unattractive (dying population), furthermore salaries are crap, labor market is insanely competitive for crappy opportunities, non-existing banking divisions (like LevFin) and taxes are high for bad public services in return
There are also more and more Italians who leave the country for seeking better opportunities abroad.
Therefore if I go to Bocconi I will only look for their international opportunities abroad (most people I know don’t want to stay in Italy, since in asset management you get 30’000€ entry level salaries, in Milan that has a very high cost of living, so it’s just not economically interesting)
Having a question about the Bocconi placement. Do you have information about how strong their placement abroad is, especially London?
Are London hiring Bocconi students mainly for Italian coverage or all kind of positions? Is it possible to work there mainly for coverage or are traditional banking positions (like markets, S&T, product teams…) only occupied by native English speakers from the UK?
And what about other labor markets than Italy? I heard also Luxembourg, Switzerland and the Emirates would be options to work there in English.
Do you know other markets for people willing to work abroad (especially for Italians)?
Or what strategy would you apply?
Thank you a lot guys
I’m not Italian, but I see tons of Italians in all kinds of sector/product groups in IB. I’m sure it wouldn’t be any different for S&T. Also if you want a strong uni in terms of placement, Bocconi I think it’s by far the strongest uni in continental Europe in terms of placements (Given it’s the only target in Italy and sheer reputation). Anecdotally, it feels like sometimes the Italians are more well presented than Brits in IB in London.
In terms of salaries, if you aim for IB in the Netherlands the triple salaries you’re referring to I suppose the 70-80k base salary ones with juicy bonuses. Forget it they are only offered by the EB/BBs who all require Dutch. The smaller boutiques will pay considerably less most likely and the large Dutch banks won’t match the comp in base and bonuses. Bonuses will be very shallow as there is a bonus cap, which often translates to very minimal bonuses for juniors. Looking at AM you would probably take a huge pay cut vs IB as they are predominantly pension funds which have lots of restrictions given they manage retirement funds. The pay for grads would probably range between 30-50k with very minimal bonuses (not 100% sure not that familiar only remember when I was looking at grad programmes).
Cant speak about the other countries you mention but I can imagine gunning for those seats is very much harder given the number of seats are so limited.
Lastly given you’re in a rush (as you mentioned your age) RSM is not an option if you want to do their flagship Finance programme as application for 2024 have already closed.
IMO if you don’t want to spend the big bucks for London, Bocconi is no-brainer gives you the best odds for your goals.
I have not said London is specifically my target, I try simply to diversify, and entering furthermore in RSM shall be easier than Bocconi
The pro of RSM that I can see is of course the Dutch labor market since salaries are considerably higher (about double, sometimes triple) than Milan (the only city in Italy that offers “actual” jobs, the rest of Italy there is essentially a job-desert, similar like US food deserts, but what is not there are jobs)
I was attracted by the statistic that reported 15% of jobs in English language available in the Netherlands
However it’s not clear what kind of jobs these jobs are, so I wanted to ask if someone has information about the local job market in the Netherlands
I thought to consider it especially to create a backup plan in case Bocconi shall not work, since it is the only target university in Italy, and the only university that can bring you abroad among the Italians
The problem of UK universities is also that their tuition fees increased sharply after Brexit for EU students (about 3-4x)
Agree as Dutch national and RSM alumni, I would fully support this. Most recruitment on RSM is focused on Dutch nationals for Dutch speaking teams in LDN/Ams. If you are a female it would be easier to find something coming as an international from RSM, but I am assuming you are not.
Unfortunately not, I am not female. In that case having heard so much negative feedback on RSM for placement of international students, I will definetly not go there and look for something else
But it’s weird cause I hear around that the Netherlands are very expat friendly and there are many English speaking jobs (15% of all jobs). So it’s quite mind-blowing.
Do you know what kind of jobs there are for internationals? Eventually I would like some offerings
Btw, do you know how HSG places international students in Switzerland? Since Italian is one of the three official languages in Switzerland (with Swiss-German and French) it can be feasible isn’t it?
The Netherlands is very expat friendly and a lot of companies offer jobs to internationals. Think here about multinationals, start-ups and consultants such as big 4 etc. However, EBs and BBs recruit in the Netherlands for Dutch speakers/the Benelux teams. The main purpose if those teams is to serve Dutch clients and therefore as an Italian that would not make sense. I would assume the Italian teams/Italian speaking positions in the BB diversity matrix would focus on Bocconi/LDN uni's, which makes it harder from RSM.
So Netherlands is very friendly for expats, but specifically difficult for IB. Only Rabo/ABN/Kempen have some spots, although limited since you often need the Dutch connection to serve your clients. Same that a Italian business owner would like an Italian advisor. If you go for a 'general' job it is perfectly fine to be an expat.
No big expert on Switzerland, but I believe it is doable to get a job there if you study at HSG. Main issue is to get a visa, but I expect the spots to be limited there as well in IB.
Re. “International Career Event (ICE)” - I have no clue, never head of it but your interpretation seems to be correct. I think at least 50% of university educated jobs can be done in English.
Other thing: the RSM organizes regularly an event called “International Career Event (ICE)”
I read it is for international students willing to work in English-speaking jobs, can you confirm me that? What does this event involve?
What about ESCP? It has the London campus and a specialized course in corporate finance, as an Italian would you suggest it?
I am currently completing my Master’s at RSM. Not Dutch, so looking for English speaking jobs as well.
The class cohort is generally international, I don’t have statistics but would say 50% Dutch and 50% international (a lot of Germans), judging by what languages I hear.
As for the job market in the Netherlands, it’s not bad for internationals. The big Dutch banks (Rabobank, ING, ABN AMRO, Van Lanschot Kempen) operate mostly in English. For example, the IB teams are open to non-Dutch speaking applicants, except for ING. It does depend on industry though. PE is more Dutch oriented but has gotten better. VC is very international.
My opinion is that if you have an ambition of living or staying in the Netherlands, go for it. The quality of life is great and the salaries are not bad. Maybe it does not compare to London on career prospects, but it really depends on your goal.
Let me know if I can be of any further help!
Thank you for your comment, it is very helpful and encouraging
However it’s the huge amount of Germans there that scares me, because Germans are very a very particular kind of international student. In fact they have the possibility to return back home where the nice high paying jobs and a good job market is waiting for them, unlikely students from other nationalities
Other element is that German companies also hire from almost every target university you come from provided you are German.
So I had the question how many Germans are there in relations to other nationalities who will have to stay in the Netherlands or go to international marketplaces to find jobs after graduation
You’re right in a sense. A majority of my classmates have come to RSM because the other alternative was Mannheim or HSG and they found the Netherlands a more attractive option.
A lot of them will return, but then Germany is a much larger market. On the other hand, I have observed Germans and Belgians to be the biggest minorities in the job market. So because there are so many of them, a lot return but still a good amount stay.
Our current class side is ~500 people. Out of that, assume 250 are international. Out of that I would assume less than 100 are recruiting in the NL.
The idea is also to start in the Netherlands and then go to London with a job rotation or corporate transfer (eventually the US)
It would save tens of thousand in tuition fees
It is possible, but your chances will be lower in my opinion. Ideally you know the Dutch market very well, and then you go to London to one of the Netherlands coverage teams.
Think this was mentioned before as well. Not sure how the cost-benefit analysis works out, but if you end goal is London, studying in the UK seems to be the safe choice.
If you can get into LBS/LSE tier then UK
If you are looking for cheap tuition + mediocre career then RSM
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