Does it matter which city I apply to?

As I start to prepare my applications, I am trying to decide which office locations to list as my first choice. For personal reasons, many different cities would work for me. But am I better off applying to a large center (e.g. SF/NY) vs smaller offices (Seattle/Silicone Valley)?

Also what about the Canadian offices? I have family in Toronto, so that might be a good fit too.

I am more concerned with the job than the city. Are there any that are more/less competitive?

I am a PhD from an ivy league so I would applying as an advanced degree holder, if that makes a difference.

 

They definitely don't, unless you are fluent in various languages (they can therefore offer you the chance to work in another office).

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 

I have a similar question. My 1st choice is ideally NYC, and I'm a Canadian citizen & US green card holder. But since most people would choose NYC/SF area, would I be shooting myself in the foot by indicating NYC as my 1st choice? My primary goal is to get the job and then be able to live in good city. In my case, would I be better off applying to Canadian offices like Toronto?

Also, for language preference, if I am good at a particular language, should I choose my location of preference based on my language fluency? For example, I can speak French. So should I include Montreal/Paris as one of my locations?

 

At MBB, location preference absolutely matters. It might be denied at recruiting events, but internally it's well known that certain offices are much harder due to the number of candidates. A number of other offices poach off the wait lists of the most popular ones in a region (NY and SF waitlists have a lot of candidates who meet every absolute cut-off but simply weren't in the top X of a given year).

I wouldn't so much focus on the size of office as I would on whether it is growing rapidly or not. Some of the biggest offices were relatively easy to go to during growth periods (Bain Boston and BCG Chicago would be examples from a few years back, both are slowing down now, I think). Ultimately, you'll still have to meet an absolute bar; the difference is, at some offices, that won't be enough.

@Sugarmouse - what you put for your 1st choice doesn't matter; you can hedge by putting a growing/easier office 2nd or 3rd and they will definitely get a look at you if NY doesn't take you. Just be ready to explain your preference (near family is a common one for less-popular cities) and work harder to convince your interviewers that you will take the offer if it is given.

 
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IBTeaching

What @signposts is correct as far as getting hired. My post refers to what you'll get staffed on and the overall experience.

I would still say try and figure out the culture of the offices you're actually interested in. NY/SF are not the end all be all.

Hold on, this is entirely firm dependent. The OP made no mention of where he is planning to apply. If he ends up at Bain ATL, he will not be working on cases in Seattle. If he winds up at BCG Seattle, he may have more variability but will be staffed almost exclusively with people from his region. McKinsey is the obvious exception. 

But back to the OP's original point. YES it matters where you apply, but trying to game the system from a numbers standpoint is a fool's errand. Smaller office get less applications but have way fewer seats. Larger offices have much larger classes but receive many more apps. You aren't going to give yourself a material advantage by trying to play the numbers game. 

Location DOES matter with regards to the legitimacy of your story and the strength of your network in that office. You have plenty of time if you are recruiting on-cycle, so focus on networking and go with offices in which you have developed the best relationships. It's also fine to say you are open to a few offices, but at least have a top two picked out and some solid reasons why you really want to work in those offices. 

As an example, you would be foolish to apply to St. Louis because it's "easier" if you have better relationships with people in the NYC office. Likewise, it would be foolish to apply to Denver if you can't speak very convincingly to why you love Denver in an interview. 

 

I would stay out of Toronto if possible. I am a consultant in TO, IM me if you want to talk about it.

Morpheus: Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?
 

If it is at a BB and in a "big city", it doesn't matter. What matters most is how you leverage the knowledge you gain and experience at the place into your junior year internship. My PWM soph yr internship was with a mom & pop shop in my hometown... but my junior yr internship was with a small hedge fund, ultimately leading to an IB BB analyst position (which is where I wanted to end up). Get some work under your belt during the soph yr summer but most of all enjoy it, because it was my last "free" summer!

 

In a larger city, there will be more movement of personnel and more opportunities. Whether or not you will get the opportunities you want is another matter altogether. For example, if you want to be a VP of Finance for a manufacturing company, you may want to avoid NYC, where there is a good possibility that you will be stuck on financial services clients for years.

My main criteria for choosing among offices at the same firm would be the same criteria for choosing among firms within the same city: do some research to see what client opportunities are available at the different cities. If your firm has only one F500 client in a certain city and your goal is F500 finance, obviously aim for a different locale.

A similar question was also asked here:

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/group-post/big-office-vs-small-office

 

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. Let me try asking it another way I guess. For example, let's say that I am interested in working in energy after I'm done with my audit stint, have the choice between Charlotte and Houston offices, and have offers for a firm that has F500 clients in both cities. Obviously, Charlotte isn't that big on energy and pales in comparison to Houston, so my question is, would I be less likely to land the jobs I want afterward by choosing Charlotte, which has less energy clients than Houston but would still give me access to large, multinational, public companies, or would I still be fine because I have the Big Four stamp on my resume and still worked with large clients with unique accounting issues even though they weren't in energy or I wasn't specifically auditing the firm I'm targeting.

 

Specific industry experience will always be a plus for any job you're looking to move into. If you're dead set on the energy sector, then it would definitely be a good move to go with Houston. There will be many more opportunities to work on energy clients, and once you are ready to make the move into industry, it's a whole lot easier to interview for positions in the city in which you're located.

Of course, an energy firm will still jump at the opportunity to hire someone with Big 4 experience in other industries. It's just that the person with specific industry experience will have an advantage in getting the position and negotiating the salary.

 

Think about your level of happiness. Remember, your life with revolve around this group. The culture of the office will be the biggest reason why you either succeed or fail. From what you stated, I would lean Chicago. Why not relocate yourself to the epicenter of this division? It will provide you with a bigger (and most likely stronger) network. Just my .02

 

Tell him that your preference is New York City, but really your #1 priority is to land a gig with that group, regardless of location.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

I would single out the best offices with killer groups in LA. Apply to these. Single out some killer offices and groups in other cities through WSO and good old fashioned networking. NYC, Chicago, and maybe Charlotte. Keep your ear to the ground and apply to several in each city. I would be careful about putting down first choice and then second choice cities for the bigger shops. From my experience, they interview you for first choice, and if they don't want you there, you're not getting a shot at another city.

To summarize, I'd apply to the best spots in several cities, with an emphasis on places you know people at and ones you hear are great and then you can even have some talking points during an interview.

 

Don't try to game the system, they see through that. If you're qualified, you'll get an interview. If you do well, you'll get an offer, regardless of office. I interviewed with M/B (other B didn't have an office in my choice) and I had to convince them that I wanted to be in that office (hometown) and wasn't simply trying to get in the back door.

 

Forget about these strategies. Based on my experience in recruiting, office preference does not matter until the final round. At that point, if you're a quality candidate and the the office you picked doesn't have a spot available for you then they will still shop you around to the less competitive offices and offer you an interview at one of them.

 
HeHateMe:
Forget about these strategies. Based on my experience in recruiting, office preference does not matter until the final round. At that point, if you're a quality candidate and the the office you picked doesn't have a spot available for you then they will still shop you around to the less competitive offices and offer you an interview at one of them.

Maybe... I've heard of this one for an MBA FT applicant, never for internships or undergrad. If cases are all about how well you do relative to other applicants, and offices have hiring targets to hit, it seems completely illogical for it to NOT be easier at offices in lower demand, at basically every single interview.

 

From what I've heard, it's not too difficult to switch offices from internship to full-time. If you did a good job over the summer and the firm likes you then they'll likely be open to accomodating to your wishes. What can also help is if you get other offers during full-time recruiting from other firms in your geographic prefence; certainly something you can use as leverage.

I've even heard of people (during full-time recruiting) interviewing for one office that is presumably less competitive (e.g. Dallas or Detroit) and after getting the offer then negotiating for their office of choice (e.g. NYC or SF). However, this was a few years back during better economic times; it may not work quite as well these days.

 

I would apply to the office where you want to be. Honestly, if you apply to an office like Atlanta/Dallas you better have a damn good reason for wanting to work there- much easier for them to pick someone who goes to school down there or grew up there then a random applicant who just happened to apply. The selectivity difference is pretty marginal between main offices- NY/Boston etc and more regional offices. And while many more people apply to the big offices, they also take many more interns because they are larger.

 

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