Hey everyone,
So I am a 1st year analyst 6 months into a role in ER at a BB (GS/JPM/MS) and I have a very difficult manager. This is my first role in ER and only second full time role so its been a transition, but my boss is very difficult to work for. Recently, I've had two issues with him and he really blew up about it. One day, I missed earnings by about 20 minutes, I came in late and missed the earnings call for one of our companies. Another day about 3 weeks later, I worked from home without asking him for permission. The next day he blows up on me, tells me to go look for another job, that he won't invest in me, that I'm not serious about this role, etc.
I've grown a lot in my short time here and he has never said a word about me staying late or putting in extra effort when I do, but he clearly has a big issue when I mess up, which I did here. He hasn't spoken to me in 2 weeks since this incident, and he seems serious about the "not investing in me" thing. However, he is notorious for being hard to work for, I've spoken to his old analysts and they said that he has blown up in the past, and allegedly he has a bad track record with management for our division in terms of how he works with his analysts (a lot of complaints in the past).
What do you guys advise me to do? I want to stay in this role and in ER but he's incredibly stubborn. I know I messed up, but it certainly doesn't seem like a fireable offense, especially after talking to the old analysts. I plan on going to management within the division in a week or two and speaking to them about it, but I am worried that might just expedite my departure from the company. On the other hand, I can't just sit here not doing any work as I've done the last 2 weeks, and I genuinely think he's being irrational and unfair when I look at the situation objectively. But what advice do you guys have to salvage this? I really just want to get back on good terms and go back to the way things were before, but I don't think speaking to him directly will really help (the guy is a huge asshole and a really petty person). Any advice would be appreciated, thank you!
This is a pretty strange situation honestly, given that your senior analyst isn’t even talking to you. I would say that coming in late to the point where you miss a whole earnings call is pretty bad, especially if you didn’t have a legitimate excuse. On the other hand, the WFH without ‘permission’ issue seems petty, but this likely looked worse in the context of you already messing some things up (sounds like a last straw kind of thing).
If the relationship has really soured to the point of you not even being able to approach the guy anymore, then I would say you have to go to management ASAP, and consider the possibility of either switching teams within your bank or lateraling to another bank. The former shouldn’t be that crazy of an idea if your boss is known hardass and it’s only been 6 months. The latter definitely shouldn’t be too hard from a BB.
There are two driving forces here. Your analyst is an established asshole, and that you’ve made enough missteps for someone to question your professionalism. The two combined make things worse. You’ve learned your lesson hopefully, but rebuilding your relationship with this analyst is probably not worth the effort or time. You said he’s a stubborn, difficult character, so it’s unlikely that he’ll see you differently barring extraordinary work, which is difficult to do as a first year ER associate (maybe other than bringing in a few massive block trades). I’d just take the lessons with you and start fresh in a new team or another shop. We’ve all had bosses that we don’t jive with and decided to move on in one way or another. As long as you’ve figured out your own shit, you’ll be fine in most shops/teams.
Thanks for the reply -- I would have to ask how/what I should say to management? I'm very eager to stay at this firm and I'm paranoid that if I approach them then that might just expedite them firing me more or less, which I'm scared of due to student loans, I have a lease, I'm not from this area, etc.
That’s the challenging part. Seats in ER are scarce, especially if you want to stay in your current sector, in the current city. If you talk to management and say you don’t work well with your analyst and want to work with another analyst, they’ll call up the analyst and ask him why. He’ll just point to the limited facts in his own interest - get a new associate. Other analysts will have had a chance to debrief with your current boss before a transfer can happen. Could be the same with moving to another group that is equally or more demanding than your current role. May be possible if you’re willing to take a less demanding role. However, I don’t think this is what you’re after.
The best reset is to look for a similar role at another shop. Still fresh out of school, hiring market is still hot, ER is a musical chair, so realistically also likely the most logical move. Learn as much as you can while you’re still in your seat, take as many honest mistakes with you under your belt, and just never look back. Equity analysts jump ships all the time for various reasons, so I almost see it as a silver lining to be in a vertical where moving has less stigma in the traditional sense. In any event, you’ll want to parallel process in case the internal move doesn’t work and need to rely on an external offer. Back up plan never hurts.
Hang in there man. It’ll take some work/time to figure out your game. No sweat.
Deleted
Makes sense -- so you guys don't see it as feasible to recover this relationship? I don't even want to be on great terms with him necessarily, I just want to work and learn for another year then dip to the buy side if I'm being perfectly honest.
Going to delete that comment as don't want to blow up your spot. Feel free to DM me
Assuming the information in the OP is true, that this boss has a track record of being an awful manager, I have to wonder why some people are fired for minor offenses and some people can behave poorly for years with no consequences.
I would bite the bullet and reach out to HR because his behavior seems beyond the pale.
That seems to be what I think too. On the other hand, he's an MD and I'm a first year analyst with no track record -- my continuous concern is that if I do reach out to management or HR or whoever it may be then they'll just kick me out faster.
Don't talk to HR or mgmt.
1. Don't rush things. Don't talk to HR or management, these people won't be on your side. If you do talk to them, they may have to fire you to prevent you sue the company for workplace harassment.
2. Stay calm. If he does not talk to you, then just communicate with him via email. Don't get frustrated with him. Remember, he can't fire you without a cause. It's very hard to fire a person and what you have done is nothing. So just be cool, do everything that you are asked to do, show up every day on time and leave on time, no more no less.
3. Actively look for another job but it will take some time. Before you find one, just stay in the job as long as you need. They can't fire you.
Remember, he is an asshole, but he can't actually do anything to you besides yelling at you. So just stay calm and move on.
May I ping you?
For whatever reason I imagine this boss to look like Louis Litt from suits,
You're reallyyy not far off, homie
Your best course of action:
1. Look for an exit
2. Hang in there until your boss calms down, before trying to mend bridges. If no work is assigned to you, focus on improving your skills and on #1.
Skip HR. Unless you can prove sexual/ racial/ disability harassment, HR will default to protecting the more senior employee.
Skip trying to move to another group unless you know for a fact the potential new boss hates the current boss.
If the tension continues, you lose, not your boss. So it’s in your interest to mend things.
So how do you do that? I’d go into overdrive for a bit and grind away. At the same time, I think you should step off the desk with your manager. Take extreme ownership for what happened. No need for excuses, just own it. And then ask for a clean slate and tell him you’re gonna do what you need to do to make it work. Direct > beating around the bush
Do your job and in the meantime, look for an exit. Your first mistake was silly but forgivable, and the second one is done regularly every week by every member of my IB industry team. I was in a small horrid group before with a terrible staffer, these managers do not change and can make your life a long term hell, get your daily work done and recruit to get out.
The world is harsh, they will forget your thousand good deeds and remember the only bad one and will judge you for it.
Can I ask a stupid question - how did you miss the earnings call by 20 minutes?
ER earning call is so stupid and sometimes a company just announces it 1-2 hours before the market open. You just did not know. So stupid
The earnings call was at 9, the earnings release was at 7. I came in at 7:20. I fully take responsibility for that, but it hardly seems like a fireable offense in my opinion.
Definitely not… Seen some clowns missing plane rides due to getting hammered at corporate events the night before. Yes they made VP+.
So then you didn't miss the call. When I hear you missed the call - I think you were 20 minutes late to the start of the phone call. Earnings were released at 7... and you showed up 20 minutes after someone published them. That's a big difference. I was expecting to hear that you missed some big issue discussed on the earnings call because you were stuck on a train getting into the office or something.
That said, I think your analyst blew shit way out of the water.
I've worked in ER at GS and MS and I would say if you're at GS you can go to HR, but they won't do anything other than just protect/defend the most senior person and you will probably get a $0 bonus at yearend. I can't imagine anyone being that big of an asshole at MS, but if you're at MS and he's a known asshole you might have a chance to move laterally to another team.
Also, I highly doubt GS will fire anyone because they don't want to have to pay a severance. Unless you are damaging the franchise by your actions or the MD is a partner, they will likely just give you a $0 bonus and hope you leave after that.
For experienced ER associates and analyst - how much does a VP factor into your performance ratings? MD runs the group and we have 5 associates supporting him on specific names each (VP is of those associates). I have a great relationship with the MD, always get great feedback. Also have great relationships with other associates as we are all around the same age and grab drinks all the time. My VP is the outlier. Even though I do not Directly work with him aside from macro tasks, He's very cold to me whenever I reach out to him with a question. He's called me out via email a few times for really no good reason at all in front of whole team. Clearly rubbed him the wrong way because hes allot nicer to the other associates, everyone recognizes it and acknowledges it to me. Can he screw me come feedback time? Hoping to get promoted to VP this year, like I said always GREAT feedback from senior analyst but wondering is if it's ALL up to the senior analyst or can the VP block my promotion?
Obviously having enemies is not good, but you are right something is off specifically between you and the him (the VP). It would be nice if you ask him to sit down over the coffee and see wtf his problem is.
That said, you have many customers: your MD, sales people, external clients, director of research, and so on. If you are a superstar to these parties, I am not concerned about your prospect for VP promotion. At the end of the day, the MD runs the show.
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