Focusing on Investment Style Fit

An Instagram follower asked me if there is a rule of thumb to decide on what types of investment firms to join and what lifestyle it entails. During my coaching journey, I unfortunately have a deep understanding of the challenges of serving the sell-side and buy-side research industries and the divergent needs of a fragmented client base. This week I discuss my framework of thinking about the tradeoffs of working under different equity investment styles.

Punchlines upfront (just like how you should structure a stock pitch): Grass is always greener. Like everything else in life, it is really about the tradeoff.

Your ability to add value

I am not a hypocrite – we are all in this business to make big money. I want to remind you:

  1. Without the ability to add value on the job, the million-dollar bonus is just a mirage. Make sure you find a philosophically aligned firm even if it pays less than another shop. Just to be clear, most don't make million dollar bonuses as a junior analyst anyways. 
  2. Many on forums start their question thread telling others their ultimate goal is to start a hedge fund. To those types: please understand the back office cost and the legal complexity of setting up a hedge fund (or any fund). Also, have fun explaining to your investors after your first fund drawdown, as you for sure will have one. Again, everyone wants to heaven but no one wants to die.

I will try my best to list the pros and cons of each path without mixing in my personal view on trading vs. investing (and that my long-time audience knows that market neutral / multi-manager is my no-go zone for career choice). There are always exceptions in this profession so understand everything below is a generalization – investment firms are small businesses where culture / style is heavily influenced by founder’s decisions.

Quick reminder of the terminologies in my prior article

Multi-manager / Pod Shops

Pros

  • The only true meritocracy – you eat what you kill
  • It’s pure alpha because beta neutral (S&P up 20% or down 20%, pod shop should make money)
  • Tailwind: capital is flowing into this style
  • Abundance of resources (ie. alternative data, sell-side access, etc.)
  • Fastest path to wealth and responsibility (managing a book) for the skilled (think pre-2020 Gabe Plotkin)
  • Relatively most job openings (well, there is a reason)

Cons

  • Highest stress (in a relative sense, as all investing is stressful)
  • Poorest work life balance (65 hour per week, IB hour, 80-100 hour? during earnings seasons)
  • Poorest job security (risk limit breach, the entire portfolio team is let go. No es personal, it’s contractual)
  • Stock price is always going to be more random than what the company is worth over time, so this style is very prone to short-term randomness such as macro

Directional Single Manager Hedge Fund

Pros

  • Better (relative) stability than pod shops
  • At the right lineage (eg. Tiger Cub), great launch pad to start your own fund after a strong track record
  • Still very good money (because better bonus than long only at the same experience level)
  • Can be longer term than pod shops, especially on the long side

Cons

  • Less openings than pod shops
  • Slim chance to managing a book (the PM runs the show, hence “single manager”)
  • Not truly long term investing as they claim because the LP capital is not that long duration
  • Lifestyle dependent on the fund, cannot generalize – can be a 35-40 hour work week or pod shop lifestyle, depends on the founder and his / her lineage (think a Citadel cub like Melvin / Candlestick vs. a pseudo-long only hedge fund)

Long Only

Pros

  • Best stability
  • Best lifestyle
  • Very long-term focused on the business
  • Lowest relative stress

Cons

  • Lowest relative compensation
  • Stagnant or declining asset growth because many firms don’t add any value through the cycle
  • Longest time to becoming a portfolio manager (if one aspires to managing a book)
  • So few job openings because of asset decline and people don’t leave

I will elaborate briefly on the other styles that I have limited familiarity with

Distressed

A very cyclical industry that requires bankruptcies to make money. Loose monetary policy for the last decade has kept many ShitCos on life support so it has not been in favor. Many have created tremendous wealth for clients and for themselves (Milken cubs like Joshua Friedman / Mitch Julis, Howard Marks). It’s a very patient style of investing as bankruptcy takes a long time to work out.

Distressed investing is very confrontational. The zero-sum game nature brews bad culture that changes people. Admirer of Paul Singer will probably say he is a tough negotiator, but what Elliott did to get Argentina to make whole on the debt is telling of the kind of people you deal with in this profession.

Activists

Similar to distressed. People think activism is very glamorous because of the publicity and you are in control of your destiny. One, the barrier to entry is insanely high because there are very few firms. Most activist firms are confrontational (think Dan Loeb with his Poison Pen and of course the corporate raider-rebrands like Carl Icahn and Nelson Peltz), so similarly you deal with certain type of personality. Second, activist firms do not engage in campaigns all year so a lot of the times it’s just like a regular value hedge fund.

Credit

Credit market is multiples larger than the equity market and is more illiquid (which is a good thing). Credit investing is by definition value investing as it focuses on downside protection and cash flow. The profession can have decent longevity. It comes down to whether you want to learn to read credit documents, which are a lot of legalese.

To sum up, everything in life has its pros and cons. Please think hard about fit before obsessing over pay (and even worse prestige which means nothing to nobody.) When you find a good fit, I can guarantee you will get paid as long as you add value.

Like the stock market, price is what the labor market pays, value of the talent is what they get. Always focus on increasing your value, which is very much in your control.

 
Most Helpful

5 years total? So did you ever make senior analyst on the buy-side? It seems unlikely. Based on typical timelines (and your unwillingness to state the split), I'm guessing you left the buy-side after what, a year?

I imagine I'm gonna take some shit for this comment but...you kinda spam this forum with links to your coaching material. And I'm skeptical of it - I'm only 33 and I've apparently been in the industry longer than you. I wouldn't present myself as the authority you do (and before you say you don't present yourself that way - you do, implicitly. I doubt most people here know it was only 5 years).

You've been on this site a while and your account is super upvoted, but I have to say it's annoying to see your constant low-effort comments (just gifs and shit) which seem to be intended to keep your dickthesellsider coaching brand warm.

I feel we should have a moratorium on self-promotion on this site, out of principle.

 

I appreciate the comment and the suggestion. No, I have never been a senior analyst on the buy-side. 

If you think I spam, you can block me, report me or post the same comment every time I publish an article or respond to a thread. 

I will continue to publish what I publish on WSO because I have a big audience who values what I do and there are a lot of informational asymmetries in the profession that remain to be resolved. 

There are many people on this forum who have been in this industry shorter, same or longer than you have. If they think what I say is not factual, I would have gotten more MS and constructive comments - I haven't. 

Now I am going to go back to writing next week's article. 

 

Wow so much shit posting going on. Who the fuck cares about anyone’s years of experience? Thought this forum helped democratise the fact that content is what mattered. I think it’s perfectly fine to educate people on the opaque world of hedge funds- as long as you’re not spreading BS.

I would’ve thought anyone working in the HF business would understand that since in this business - you don’t actually need to be a seasoned grandpa to be able to make money for whatever fund you’re at. 

 

Difference between 10 and 20 years might not be material for coaching, but every year under 10 is a gulf.

Stop talking about abstractions and "democratizing" and "seasoned grandpa" - the bottom line here is this guy didn't even last more than a year on the buy-side.

If you really don't think YoE are relevant enough to distinguish between 1 year, 5 years, or 10 years, then whatever I can't convince you but it seems like a fundamentally unserious perspective to take

 

In all fairness to dick (and I've never used his services, just seen him around and asked him for some advice), anything he says that is incorrect is free to be called out. His YOE (and split) is not opaque. It is plain to see on his website if you want. He is not trying to make illusions about who he is, he is just offering (free) info here. People are able to make decisions on whether they believe he is right to coach them and whether his services are worth the cost, just like any other thing we buy.

Should he be a coach? Maybe, maybe not, but he's given you the information to allow you to assess for yourself.

Career Advancement Opportunities

April 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Point72 98.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 97.9%
  • Citadel Investment Group 96.8%
  • Magnetar Capital 95.8%
  • AQR Capital Management 94.7%

Overall Employee Satisfaction

April 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Magnetar Capital 98.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 97.8%
  • Blackstone Group 96.8%
  • Two Sigma Investments 95.7%
  • Citadel Investment Group 94.6%

Professional Growth Opportunities

April 2024 Hedge Fund

  • AQR Capital Management 99.0%
  • Point72 97.9%
  • D.E. Shaw 96.9%
  • Magnetar Capital 95.8%
  • Citadel Investment Group 94.8%

Total Avg Compensation

April 2024 Hedge Fund

  • Portfolio Manager (9) $1,648
  • Vice President (23) $474
  • Director/MD (12) $423
  • NA (6) $322
  • 3rd+ Year Associate (24) $287
  • Manager (4) $282
  • Engineer/Quant (71) $274
  • 2nd Year Associate (30) $251
  • 1st Year Associate (73) $190
  • Analysts (225) $179
  • Intern/Summer Associate (22) $131
  • Junior Trader (5) $102
  • Intern/Summer Analyst (250) $85
notes
16 IB Interviews Notes

“... there’s no excuse to not take advantage of the resources out there available to you. Best value for your $ are the...”

Leaderboard

1
redever's picture
redever
99.2
2
Secyh62's picture
Secyh62
99.0
3
Betsy Massar's picture
Betsy Massar
99.0
4
BankonBanking's picture
BankonBanking
99.0
5
kanon's picture
kanon
98.9
6
CompBanker's picture
CompBanker
98.9
7
dosk17's picture
dosk17
98.9
8
GameTheory's picture
GameTheory
98.9
9
numi's picture
numi
98.8
10
Kenny_Powers_CFA's picture
Kenny_Powers_CFA
98.8
success
From 10 rejections to 1 dream investment banking internship

“... I believe it was the single biggest reason why I ended up with an offer...”