What can a person who has messed his life up for the past few years but somehow gotten into a top 50 business school in the nation and has two years till graduation…..and plenty of investment and trading experience from the past 4 years…….land an HF internship
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To put it simply, you can't and I'm not trying to be a dick by saying that but u have to ask yourself why a fund would take you over the Havard maths/econ student, with perfect grades, already done internships and also have a personal trading account with good track record. Its just a fact there are very few spaces available and a massive amount of demand for them. Now that's not saying u can't work at a hedge fund at some point, so figure out a reasonable path to getting there eg work in scheduling at a commodity house -> move to risk -> move to the desk as an analyst -> get a book eventually and then perform -> hedge fund.
Why would he want to go to a commodity trading house? That seems so out of left field since he didn’t even mention commodities.
IB would be a better option
Not really... I hate to break it to the middle market IB folks that the chances at ending up at a top hf (which is the only place you actually want to be) is just very very small. A large number of successful traders in commods have done the route I said above and ended up making 8 figures as PMs at top shops. IB is also just harder to do, still a large number of candidates that want to get into MM IB will fail. I know very few people that actively tried to get into commods and failed completely.
There's no way it's that easy to go through that path and make 8 figs. If you have 10 friends who happen to be outliers, sure.
I’d rather work at a MM PE shop. Have fun playing the public markets and adding no value.
Yeh because I forgot how you're doing gods work in PE. You're a real hero to society buddy. You often hear kids saying how they want to be a doctor, firefighter, nurse, teacher and work in middle market private equity when they grow up!!!
I get that, I’m not saying I have the best prospects but I also trading and investing experience and a thorough understanding of the markets, what can I do to erase that gap between me and a prospect from a target
Champ, I've been on the buyside for over a decade and would never claim I've a "thorough understanding of the markets".
But I don't know, maybe you're a faster learner?
I fully understand your point... I was very similar... Started trading when I was 16 with 5 grand by the time I was 20 I had turned that into 125k from trading equities, FX and commods, I thought I was a genius that had solved the market and it was only a matter of time before I was a billionaire. Was studying maths/physics at a target uni, got my summer internship offer at one of the top quant/fundamental funds. By the end of the summer I refused to trade my own account!!! The difference in information available to you compared to citadel is MASSIVE. Its just different leagues. I realised that yes I had a very good instinct for the market but I didn't understand shit really and it was a miracle I hadn't blown the account over the years looking back.
Im saying this because now when I interview people and they have a trading account that has 'supposedly' done well, is that they MIGHT have a good eye for the market. If I actually sat down with you and went over your trades to the extent my PM does when I want to put something on, you would crumble (I would have also as a university student).
You have to look at personal trading accounts as an undergrad as a cherry on top of your application. Everything else needs to be great and if you are equally matched to a candidate and u have run some money I will probably pick you.
In my example if I was talking to someone in risk or back office and they have been making money consistently, I would be more likely to give them a shot but it doesn't guarantee anything.
Figure out what you want to trade/invest in and figure out the path that you might be able to get there in the future
One hundred percent agree, I am a disabled person in comparison to anyone at an institution and that whatever I do make, is luck and some trade management. But I believe if I’m allowed to just watch and be a coffee boy, I would learn and attempt my best to be quick with it.
I just need guidance and help, as I don’t come from a family or people who have much of a presence in the finance world
yes but why would I give you that opportunity.... You have to be able to provide something for me as a junior in more fundamental work that's the grunt work of modelling, taking notes etc and as a quant its building the quant models. If you can't offer me that I'm not going to give u the shot to learn the other stuff off me
The unfortunate reality is that there is a list of 100 harvard/stanford/penn into GS/MS/JPM into BX/APO/TPG that all just want a chance to grab coffee as well (yes I know that these people probably wouldn't work for free to grab a PM coffee; its hyperbole).
The demand for these seats is so high, and the applicant pool large enough, that HFs are able to be pretty selective for any junior seat at any level. There is a lot to be said for grit, determination, and raw talent, but HFs can't do jack shit with potential. So when you can limit yourself to just looking at that first applicant pool (and maybe its really just a top of their class grad into a solid IB program for 1 year - this person still doesn't know anything about investing), they can afford to act that way. Especially since the majority of the time they are still going to end up selecting the best talent.
can you reveal a little bit on the information disparity. I'm still a student for reference
As far as what you can do to decrease the gap between you and a kid from a target... you can't, hf are lean, we just arnt going to search through 250 applications from semi targets to maybe find the Dimond in the rough. Hedge Funds require pure intellectual horse power, its just the requirement of the job. The smartest kids end up at MIT/Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford, now you could have been really unlucky and missed them all slightly but the more likely scenario is that your not THAT smart. So again in the nicest way why compete against them... pick an job you have a competitive advantage in over other people. Now if you have listened to that and still think you will thrive at a fund..... network as hard as possible, try and get on calls with senior people and impress the shit out of them and that might open doors.
You need wayyyy more humility the target dude destroyed you. Target kid said they turned 5k into 125k, so if you think you are on par with target kids you must have also made 100k personally trading in college?
Only thing about your posts so far, is you identify you have eff'd up and somehow somewhere they still let you into your current school. But how can we trust you wont eff up again as things get tough...
I know the chances of you being an actual PM and responding to this in that manner is so low but if u are, ur my hero.
I think it's that marcellus wallace guy. He talks like he learned how to speak English from a BBG chat
That target guy I think told me trading your personal account don’t mean much and that I’d be better off focusing on the other things he mentioned and then that I’d have to have been very very unlucky to not be at target and still be capable of closing that gap so the chances are pretty low and I should rather go for roles where I do have an edge……….at no point was he destroying me rather he was only teaching me and I appreciate it.
As for what I have done is nothing compared to his trading record and huge props to him wish I could learn more from him.
And at no point did I say I’m at par, instead asked how can I close that gap.
And I don’t know if I will or will not mess up and you don’t know if you will or will not either,
One can only learn their lessons and move forward and make sure they don’t repeat their mistakes lol
Have a nice day hope you feel better
Exactly mate.... you have taken that exactly how I meant for you too. Be intellectually honest with yourself about what your edge is as a person and exploit it for everything you can. I know brokers with no degree and not particularly bright that made £8m last year because they are a lovely person that keeps to their word and does the job well. A large amount of money can be made in basically anything if your the best at it, it just tops out at different levels.
Unless you have any professional experience it’s worthless. They may use your PA to gauge passion but they don’t care about your returns. Become a competitive candidate and you’ll get the job. The job market is after all, a market. Become a valuable asset.
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