Undergrad Hedge Fund Programs
There is scattered dialogue on formalized hiring from undergrad in regards to Hedge Funds so I wanted to create a thread to discuss the current opportunities and see if we could rank them broadly (No universal metrics etc)
I am looking to see how people would compare Balyasny to a Davidson Kempner Etc... (Would like an answer to this specifically)
I am going to leave SM's out, there are ones that do hire but the knowledge behind these processes is tightly guarded it seems (Ie. Silverpoint) or one off exceptional undergrads
The Pods: These have the largest cohorts
Point 72 (Academy)
Citadel (CAP Program)
Millenium (UBS ER)
Balyasny (Catalyst)
Other Multi Strats:
Davidson Kempner (Rotational)
Verition (Via internship)
Walleye (Via internship)
D.E. Shaw (Via internship)
Graham (Via internship)
Weiss (Via internship)
PIMCO (Various Credit)
Systematic: Excludes Market Makers & Prop
Marshall Wallace
Tudor
Rokos
Capula
Other: Likely missing quite a few so please feel free to add and ill update
De shaw >weiss>CAP/P72(some other poster was downvoting it on another thread but probably still ok)/ bridgewater(different and weird but they promote fast if you are "their type")>baly/mlp(ubs not great)> others(walleye, Verizon are tier 2 pods)>kempner(rotational)>pimco(basically like working at your university endowment fund).
I thought rokos did mostly quant. No impression of the others.
I know DE shaw has bad return offer rate, so Weiss might be above.
De shaw >weiss>CAP/P72(some other poster was downvoting it on another thread but probably still ok)/ bridgewater(different and weird but they promote fast if you are "their type")>baly/mlp(ubs not great)> others(walleye, Verizon are tier 2 pods)>kempner(rotational)>pimco(basically like working at your university endowment fund).
I thought rokos did mostly quant. No impression of the others.
I know DE shaw has bad return offer rate, so Weiss might be above.
De shaw/Weiss WAY glaze overrated
Pods with structured program that have graduated cohorts successfully >> anything else
Put DK below pods, BW very weird culture really depends and not comparable to pods,
rationale for dk below pods? going through ft process rn for dk+pods.
dk program is rly new compared to pod programs, but most of the past rotationals have stayed which seems good
DK is certainly above the pods if your interested in SM’s or distressed.
bro what? the median person in a pod grad program is on the chopping board lol... chances r you're gonna have a shitty pod, top 25% get more well tenured ones? Taking a return at weiss is strictly a better EV option
CAP and P72 have the most developed/structured training programs. Essentially produce a junior analyst who’s familiar with firm infra + able to ramp rapidly.
MLP program is ok. UBS research isn’t great training vs academy/CAP but if you’re under good analysts for your two rotations you may pick up some good habits/approaches. More chilled out at least. Some of the pods hiring at MLP from this program are very good from what I’ve seen (Passaic etc)
Any credit programs other than DK?
MLP is moving away from UBS towards CAP/Academy style program. They have an incoming 2027 SA class for this program.
speaking from someone who is in that program, yes MLP is moving towards their own academy program. The program next year is the inaugural program.
I really wish Dartmouth College would loosen ties with the cult that is Bridgewater Associates.
Dartmouth has so many great firms where alumni are founders or higher-ups, such as TPG, Lone Pine, BDT & MSD, Thoma Bravo, and Apollo, etc. IMO, we should be working on strengthening our relationships with them and cut any and all ties with Bridgewater.
Bridgewater is a cult that will permanently alter your career, and I know so many of my Big Green alumni who were tricked into going there and wish they did the 2+2 path instead.
If you have an offer from an EB / BB / buyside, or even an MM IBD you can use as a lateral platform, take it and never even think about Bridgewater. Please.
What happened with the alumni while they were there?
on the public equity side,
Weiss is garbage. Weiss LS dudes are weird af and most importantly dont think they know what they are even saying.
De shaw i have no info but dont think their equity ls team is really known on the street.
avoid BW. i have a few friends who used to work there and its a dust shop that used to run off its back of retard scamdalio who teaches econ 101 and acts like some guru. its an aum game for these clowns now. culture is obv psychotic if you can find a few articles.
In general, the best pods at MMs are really the best teams to join and are the best seats hands down. SM is dying and there is a clear reason why because the best pods at MM are eating their lunch. A lot of undergrads dont know and will not know this until they really work at HFs, but the good ppl at pods are 1) just way smarter on their sectors (its really apparent when you talk to them), 2) know how to tactically trade better than SMs (trust me its really diff), 3) have better payouts due to formulaic payout system. Pod style investing isnt for everyone but there is a good reason behind capital flow shift towards MMs. cant say this for every team but for TMT and Healthcare, Cit and MLP are the best imo
Yeah, Ray Dalio is Yertle the Turtle.
And Yertle the Turtle is the King of the Mud.
No pun intended, as Yertle the Turtle was written by Dr. Seuss, a Dartmouth College alum, and Ray loved to recruit from Dartmouth College.
What is the best way to get in front of the good pods if I’m coming out of an MBA? Do IB first? Apply for the grad programs if they’ll take me?
That’s assuming you get into a good pod, which is hard.
A lot of juniors get let go when their PM draws down. And they have no control over that. You end up jumping around on average every ~2 years.
Better to have some stability earlier on, get the time to learn and build up some savings, then move to a pod later.
CAP / P72 - legacy pod grad programs, best training and average outcome from this program the best because they can teach anyone l/s investing.
Weiss - doesn’t do l/s investing but interesting convert / marb strategies as well as other weird things. yeah not traditional but their returns are great, and it’s probably a great product for LPs.
DESCO - highest comp at the start by alot and smaller team within long/short but right tail lower than being profitable risk taking analyst / PM at C / P. Maybe not a bad place to start before moving over to pod. Sort of like a “SM” kind of model with sector heads, etc.
BW - don’t go.
MLP / Baly - new programs but have heard good things about MLP specifically as good teams are willing to hire out of grad program and not as competitive candidates as u find in CAP / P.
Regardless, seems like best outcomes in my network (I’m only 2 years out of school) have been from people who find SM seats out of 2 + 2 or just banking. Maybe not tiger cub funds, as those aren’t a good deal anymore, but smaller funds that are growing can get a lot of upside and pod is a grind. 500m+ / head fund that’s growing. Also you get to compete with banking / PE talent, and pod grad programs have drained all of the good talent out of those pipelines today.
Any insights to share on Bracebridge’s undergrad intern program?
out of interest, what do RO rates look like this year? I'm sure it varies widely? Do more limited seating MMHFs typically have a higher RO?
are you doing a MM program next year, if so i can dm
I am. Would appreciate a DM.
Yea, sure dm is open
What are timelines like here? And do any of these firms do off-cycles? I heard someone doing Weiss for summer but switched it to winter.
Rem ratione voluptas eum voluptas quia. Quibusdam voluptatem est impedit assumenda. Aliquam similique sit eum rerum qui hic nemo.
Optio nam nesciunt et cupiditate maxime. Placeat aut deserunt magnam ut magnam.
Doloremque quasi illo consectetur enim nostrum libero. Saepe tenetur enim et rerum. Et provident accusamus ullam voluptatem distinctio vero. Veritatis voluptas iste perspiciatis harum dolorem.
Officiis voluptates tenetur natus aut incidunt sint ipsa. Maiores qui dolorum atque dolor quia qui est temporibus.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Officia dolores reiciendis reiciendis quae. Ratione et nihil sunt ut quo. Corrupti explicabo qui quae itaque.