What interest rates do HF's pay for leverage?
Per my understanding, MMHF's typically lever up 6-8x, and then aim for around 5% returns for L/S equity. Often times, even a 1-2% return is considered positive, though. I'm confused at how returns of that nature are higher than the interest rates that prime brokerages charge, and what those interest rates might be?
Thanks.
lol you're thinking too linear. If its a multi some groups will run 70x some will run 2x. Financing the leverage is security/market/geography/PM specific. Half the reason big funds add PE arms is to hide leverage.
Don’t think that’s too linear thinking, it’s basic math and it doesn’t make sense if you didn’t know about the short rebate
Fair. He just said multi manager and I was trying to point out the multiple variables that go into the final fund leverage calc and cost.
Can you provide an example / explain more of the dynamics of adding the PE fund?
Can't. Still have money invested in old fund. Have too many eyes on them already.
Market neutral hedge fund don’t need to worry that much about interest rates for leverage.
Say you have $100m in AUM and want to lever 5x to $500m.
You buy $500m worth of equities and short $500m worth of equities. You will get cash for the $500m which you can put in a money market fund and earn prevailing interest rates, offsetting your borrowing costs to lever up. I‘m not 100% sure if it’s 1 to 1 offset but hedge funds are definitely not paying 5% net
Now it does matter for the overall returns - i.e. if the risk free rate is 5% should you really be happy with the same return as in 2020/2021 when the risk free rate was basically 0? That’s a different question though.
This clears it up. Thank you!
Dumb follow up question but wouldn't it be $250m long / $250m short? In aggregate that's the $500 GMV or total gross exposure right?
Also why / where is the cash coming from? I.e. you have $100m of "equity" or starting cash, you want leverage to get that to $500m. So you have $400m of $ that is essentially debt that you pay interest on but that $400m isn't sitting in cash it's what's being traded I thought?
As I said u don't get cash.
You guys can monkey shit me all the time u don't receive cash when shorting equities
Giving more details:
So un your example:
Fund has 100M$ AUM
Long 250M$ stocks
Short 250M$ stocks
Cash management :
Fund will have about 50M$ deposit as margin/collateral at the bank providing leverage on stocks. (Taking rough hypothesis of 10% margin/GMV, could be less). This deposit is paid at risk free less a small margin for the bank
Fund will have 50M$ cash that they will put into a money market fund or directly buy short term tbills
So, again less various banks' margins, the fund 100M$ cash is totally invested around risk free rate
On leverage:
On the 250M$ long:
Pay risk free plus bank margin
On the 250M$ short:
Receive risk free minus bank margin
So rate sensibility neutralized and the fund only pays a margin to the bank
If the fund trade only blue chips these margins Can be super competitive (think 30bps)
If the fund shorts some hard to borrow stocks, the fee may be higher.
U don't get cash when shorting equities....
A few things:
1. Some products are leveraged already and don't need extra cash, for exemple futures, or options.
2. For equities,
when u are long u pay a small fee plus risk free rate
When u are short u still pay a fee (variable depending if it is easy/hard to borrow the stock) and u receive the risk free rate.
So as most books are somewhat balanced, their exposure to rate is low.
3. When a PM/fund talks about its PnL it is always after deducting these costs. It is like transaction costs, and all other costs.
For quant funds these costs are considered into the backtesting of strategies.
4. Margin deposit in a bank or a compensation chamber are paid at the risk free rate less a small fee.
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