Hello all. Figured I’d use quarantine to be productive and share some thoughts with the world. At the end of the day, thankful to still be employed (hopefully) and plugging away
Before we start a quick acknowledgement of the normal people who are just good at their jobs (the real MVPs) who make it all bearable.
Here we go. The list below generally fits within a framework I like to use: You’re either a work doer or a work creator. Be good or be be normal. If you’ve never been a good work doer (i.e. analyst or productive associate) chances are you’re not gonna be a good work creator (i.e. VP). If you’re not normal, you better be unbelievably smart otherwise you’re probably not gonna be good.
Anyway...the 15 things I hate about banking:
-
People and people who make people work till 2am frequently only because that is what you do in banking
-
Thinking that ‘running the math’ or working on the model makes you important. Any moron can run the numbers, if you can’t explain what they mean you’re useless.
What you think you’re doing: running a robust and complex analysis rooted in the fundamentals of corporate finance, but at such a sophisticated level that only those talented enough to work in banking or PE could understand (written meme: Zach Galafinakis Hangover scene). What you are actually doing: ‘Hey we backed into the answer that you want to see but have 12 pages of backup in the appendix so it looks like we did something.’
-
Senior associates / VPs that don’t know anything but are senior associates / VPs
-
Constant and never ending intellectual superiority contests. Like you don’t need to one up my opinion on the game last night. Not how people interact in the outside world. And no one cares about your exercise routine
-
Similarly - when everyone needs to get their opinion in on the call or email chain. Congrats! Omg you’re so smart and not useless, thanks for that insight! Well now we have to address your comment which you made solely to sound smart, which creates more work and take us further from finishing the deck, which was the reason we had the call in the first place!
-
When someone says absolutely nothing, but uses infinity industry buzzwords, all the finance lingo, and an arrogant cadence to compensate for their incompetence. If you can’t explain it in simple English you don’t know what you’re talking about!
-
We get to use fancy words to make to make it seem like the work we did isn’t totally useless and made up. Pro forma (we added these two things together), illustrative analysis (ok guys let you in on a little secret, this one is made up, but it’s just illustrative so it can’t be wrong), leakage (take this number here and multiply it by the tax rate)
-
Someone else already did all the work (i.e. research analyst) we just reformatted it in our banks colors and added a cute graphic with an arrow
-
Call with 40 people: BEEP. Who just joined? DID SOMEBODY JUST JOIN!!?
-
Arrogant interns
-
Arrogant everybody else who thinks that they are better than everyone else because their email signature says investment banking. Btw there are a ton of people in less “prestigious” positions that could do circles around you
-
People who can’t handle it or blame others when things don’t go there way. Awww, but this never happened at Deerfield or Princeton. Grow up. Little accountability
-
Senior people that are a mess and get stuff done at bizarre hours and expect everyone to accommodate. Um hello, we could have finished this like civilized humans before 6pm on a weekday instead of Sunday night at 11:30
-
People that don’t have any interests besides high finance, being rich and expensive wine. Cool bro
-
People that don’t acknowledge the BS. Yea we get to work on real shit and get access to interesting processes / people, but let’s be real about the nonsense that goes into our jobs on a daily basis. Some people just take themselves and everything they do sooo seriously
Bonus 16. Prestige. Do what you want with people you like and respect. 1 - you’ll be better at and therefore more valuable to your clients and therefore can probably work at a more prestigious firm (LOL, but actually). 2 - who cares what the trolls think
At the end of the day we’re all used car salesmen/women. Some of us just wear more expensive suits
+1 for point 8 our group spreads broker research the director/MD looks at the average and tweaks it ever so slightly. Then we footnote it and say:
“Source: EB analysis”
That last line - well done, Little Nub.
Spot on for #7. Anytime we slap "illustrative" on a slide we're essentially saying "Disclaimer: The below math is bullshit, we know it and you know it"
This is a fantastic rant. Made my day!
Exactly why I'm planning on leaving the industry. Was a good learning experience but time to move on. Great post!
Point number 7 is a game changer. I'd like to add that if you use phrases like "let's circle back to this" or "cross your t's and dot your i's" you're generally a waste of oxygen.
I'd add in abusive people (I would have said 'needlessly abusive') but I think there really is very rarely any time when abuse is warranted. Examples: I didn't book a flight yet, because I was waiting for the counterparty to confirm the meeting. We're still 4 days out and there's LOTS of seats. MD says "You're a fucking child. I fly more than you. Why haven't you fucking booked it?" "How much money have you raised? Fucking zero." (found out later the LPs didn't want to invest with a total prick, which they easily found out via due diligence calls.
.
Point 4 about the competition on everything is accurate and I actually find it quite lol. Sadly I am a victim of this.
Some of these I don't even know when and how I've became a subscribed competitor and we never admit it to each other we are even keeping tabs, but here are some examples for a some fellow competitors to have a laugh about:
Low key competition in how many Barry's people complete a week, how many absurd ski stories we have where we break some part of the body, who is training ultramarathon and iron man, how many semi professional highest peaks people have scaled/summited, extreme variation of dieting/fasting/vegan convert based on xyz latest research to extend lifespan, hitting high score on sleep pattern and REM minutes, how many Michelin star restaurant visited... the list goes on
This is basically like RPG game where you are collecting raw materials, rock and trees etc and building an empire by the end. Oh and how addictive this is ... hahahah
Does this happen more at BBs or EBs?
Being a Ppt monkey. I was a STEM major, and now I spend my days finetuning powerpoint objects and resizing logos. A moron, with proper training, could do 80%+ of my job
VPs who are afraid to ask reasonable questions of MDs (what do you want to see) and instead burn hours of analyst / associate time in an effort to "show everything"
Both of these are spot on
stanleyIII - for your first complaint, logointern.com should make that a bit easier.
Your second point is easily my least favorite part of banking. MDs already waste enough of our time. VPs make it so much worse by having no spine
Ive been in situations where the associate / analysts asks the VP if we can ask the MD for clarity and after a long pause, the VP says "no I think it's better we prepare several options" LOL
Thanks for the tip +SB
the second is so spot on. my group has a great atmosphere so I’ve started just directly asking my MD questions if it seems like the VP is too shy. rare ability in this industry but I’ve been lucky enough to be able to save some time
Can't express how annoyed I am that I can't send you a banana for #18. People need to nut up.
I've got a few:
MDs that are so fucking vague with everything that they ask you to do that you want to punch a hole through your monitor. "can you pls fix deck and run numbers back pls" Which deck buddy I'm on multiple live deals with you wTF?
MDs that make you feel like a complete moron when you ask them to provide a little guidance behind wtf "running numbers back" means
MDs that frantically ask you at 5:54pm to send around an unplanned conference call invite for 6:00pm that same day to 15 people at three different firms because he wants to have a call whenever the fuck
MDs that ask you to pull up two of the most obscure files to find on your company's hard drive and ask you to run complicated formulas on both of them while 15 people are waiting for you to answer because your MD decided to not give you any heads up that he wanted to mention these random numbers that have zero value-add to the conversation and on the deal in general, and then 10 seconds later asks you "whats the hold up here?" TF??
My favorite is when it's the same MD doing all of the above, which it appears to be.
The 4th one stresses me the most. Can't do work with people hovering...and immediate answers to the questions
Jim, "What the hell is a rundown???"
r/oddlyspecific
When MDs ask you to pull a number / chart / etc. from a deck that definitively doesn’t exist except in awfully abstract form in the MD’s mind
The entitlement in this post is pathetic. You all are making 150k out of undergrad while so many people on this country are struggling to make ends meet. Quit complaining.
Interesting comment. Are you saying that nobody should be able to complain about certain aspects of their job whilst there is a (rising) existence of unemployment? I assume the individual (and quite a lot of bankers) holistically either enjoy or appreciate the experience, development and opportunity, and are grateful to have a job these days.
My view is that if we fail to mention the parts of our job we don't appreciate (especially on an online forum), we can't reflect upon what we would do in a higher-up position in order to help our analysts and associates have a positive experience. We also can help individuals who are considering IB to truly think about whether these aspects are right for them.
For starters a lot of these are common in any industry that pays well. But that's not the point. We are literally in the middle of a national pandemic where small businesses are absolutely getting slammed. So many people in my cohort have had their internships cancelled. And what do I see here? Some entitled analyst crying about how his VP is incompetent and his coworkers are arrogant. Give me a break. This is all OP has to whine about in the middle of national crisis. He seriously (a) needs to be grateful he is still alive and healthy and (b) grateful he has a very well paying job still.
stanleyIII Did you expect to be doing contour integration in a sales business? You picked this industry for the money, now deal with it. Tech was an alternative that you chose against. Be grateful you are paid 150k to use PPT. There are a lot of jobs that use PPT and Excel that get paid peanuts compared to what you guys make.
I used to never believe it when people said there were people in this thread who have never faced adversity. That has changed due to people like the OP and stanleyIII
The excessive competitiveness and the culture of "Kill or be killed" are the worst imo.
Dude we literally are on a same f'kin deal, you don't need to talk behind my back to our VP/MD because i'm not familiar with some industry-specific lingo/terms so you could gain smartass points in front of their faces. Almost everyone working in banking for at least 2 years has encountered this kind of toxic person/people. It brings down the team, politicize our workflow/decisions, and unnecessarily waste everyone time and energy.
I am a senior MD and I agree with everything on the page.
My favorite phenomenon is MDs inability to understand their inboxes or calendars, but have told junior staff not to clog their inboxes with emails. Classic scenario: Client wants to move working session and the analyst moves calendar invite to new time with a note on the update message that says "moving to new time due to conflict". MD proceeds to shit down analyst's throat for not sending a separate email that says "this meeting has been rescheduled".
Analyst jumps out window
I love that last line. And, i havent worked IB, but about 13 of the 16 issues you bring up apply to little firms, big firms, trading, Hedge funds, research, portfolio management... If anyone told you that life would be less unfair in a different field or area of finance, they lied to you. You merely described life.
Honestly, you are making it sound like bankers are a bunch of insecure idiots, which bears at least some level of truth.
Love point 7 lol. Would add "select comparables" (we picked the highest multiple comps we could find and they have no actual comparable metrics but look at this valuation)
This is all true and hilarious, but just remember most of the points are the social outcomes of being in a competitive environment that is proven to foster long-term success, at least by the definition of most. Would you want the opposite of this where no one tries to one up one another? Or people are semi-serious about the work they do when it involves billions in client $$? Competition escalates indefinitely, and as a banker in NY you're playing in Premier League. Not trying to be a hardo, just don't want young monkeys to get the wrong idea since these "I hate banking" posts are dime a dozen now. You simply deal with these for having an amazing job with amazing pay.
Consequatur atque culpa repellat id exercitationem magni. Porro quaerat exercitationem quibusdam autem nihil repellendus nobis. Sequi ut aperiam libero quia eligendi maiores. Sit voluptatibus sed beatae repellat accusamus ea.
Ex qui laboriosam sint voluptatem. Natus ad quo ab itaque.
Delectus iure omnis nisi cumque id. Est assumenda quo amet. Illum quaerat ullam ipsum quibusdam.
Blanditiis doloremque et ut illum quia nihil. Voluptatem dolore consequatur aspernatur perferendis perspiciatis qui. Fugiat veritatis quisquam consequatur harum rerum. Omnis nam ullam perferendis autem rem enim dolorem. Cupiditate animi omnis itaque odit eaque similique vel dolor. Commodi et voluptatem dignissimos quidem amet. Delectus quidem itaque aspernatur rerum sit quis.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Dolore aliquam aut error et laudantium. Animi ut et rerum ea dolorum. Deleniti unde quo corrupti sit. Ut et harum facilis beatae ducimus.