A Career in Investment Banking is Retarded
Pre-2008, I can see why IB was an excellent choice. The comp was astronomical at the higher levels and it justified the insane hours and toxic culture. But nowadays, I'm struggling to see the point of why anyone would want to start a career in IB, let alone do it long term. There are so many careers out there with similar pay that don't require you to work 90-100 weeks doing bullshit like formatting powerpoints. Outside of this forum and high finance, people aren't even aware that people sacrifice that much time just for a paycheck. People in tech are working half the hours, doing more interesting work, without asshole VPs emailing them at 1 am. Also, there are so many outlets to start your own business online that if anyone put the energy and skill they put into banking into starting their own thing, they'd have a good shot at success. There are so many ways to make a killing in today's society that it's actually comical. You have tik tockers like Josh Richards making millions for showing his abs, Jake Paul making millions for knocking some guy out who has never boxed before, people getting stoned on podcasts making ungodly sums, some 7 from your high school making a few grand a month on OnlyFans, the list doesn't end.
But instead, we choose to go to IB, and for what? Because a bunch of other misguided, college students trying to live up to their parents' and friends' expectations said it was the best path? In IB, you'll have enough money to be well off, but never rich enough to have true financial freedom, because so much of our money goes towards rent and keeping up with our peers. Of course, if you stay in for 20 years and become an MD, you'll reach this level, but at that point, who the fuck cares. You've spent the last 20 years in an office in a high-stress state. Add to this, that you might have one night a week, if that, where you can actually go out and enjoy your hard-earned money. Many people have the mentality that they will do IB for 2 years and then leave. Ok, great. So you leave and go to PE, which is just as many hours except now you are actually doing more difficult work and the stakes are higher. You still have no free time to enjoy this money you've spent you're entire life trying to accumulate and everyone you interact with is just as rich or richer than you, so you don't even feel well off.
Sorry for the rant but I'm giving up on the fool's gold that is IB and going to doing my own thing, where at least I'll have equity and control of my life.
Go ahead and get that tech job or start that tik-tok if its so easy.
What are these "so many careers" that have similar comp and trajectory to IB? Its a pretty straightforward way to make a lot of money for people that have been good at following traditional "safe" paths, but of course the hours suck. The chances of becoming a Jake Paul or Addison Rae or Joe Rogan are laughable, not something you can just put the hours into to have a "good shot at success."
Because I’m too much of a retard to work in STEM, not artsy enough to draw furry porn for cash, and too ugly for YouTube. But I sure do work hard.
Making IB money? Not a shot.
All of these posts seem to miss something so obvious. What if I actually enjoy finance? Tech salaries mean absolutely nothing to me because I don’t enjoy coding.
While IB may not be what it once was, it’s still a great place to start for someone who wants to spend their career in financial services.
OP is the stereotypical purveyor of the “I hate IB” vitriol that I have seen all too often. If you don’t like banking, do something else. I can’t stress it enough: pursue a career that you’re genuinely passionate about — whether it be in banking, tech, law, biotech, medicine, real estate, etc. There are literally hundreds of options.
There is, however, a modicum of truth in OP’s post: IB is not as attractive as was pre-2008. But guess what? Comparatively, it is still the career with the absolute best risk/reward profile; if you’re able to break in and you’re worth your salt, the risk is disproportionally skewed towards the upside, especially considering that you have mobility to move into private equity, venture capital, corp dev, and countless other facets of business.
Sure, tech/FAANG pay is competitive and sometimes even higher than IB at the entry level, but IB enables you to learn at a deep level how business function and how companies raise capital and subsequently allocate it. In my opinion, that’s an incredibly transferable skill set that you can’t find anywhere else. As an applied math major who interned in software engineering at a large tech firm and subsequently decided to pursue a career in IB->investing, the transferable skill set and business acumen is what makes IB so much more attractive.
I get the jist of the post and don’t disagree in part, because too many people pile into the job without understanding all their options and there are some other lucrative options for some of the very smart people who do banking. But it also completely ignores the long term outlook, the discount rate / likelihood of success, the credentialing and the personal growth that comes with a few years of being a young person rubbing shoulders with CEOs.
On the first, no one thinks banking is “worth it” for what they make their first two years of their career - it’s the path it puts you on and the fact that, ten years into your career, you’ve now significantly outpaced everyone in the other “corporate” paths. As a senior associate / junior VP, there is basically no non-finance job (even in tech) that makes anywhere near the amount of money I do without double the years of experience I have. As an MD? It’s even starker. And the risk weighted ability / likelihood to get to those levels vs. in finance tilts the scales even further towards finance. And you can’t even compare the amount of wannabe e-commerce entrepreneurs or youtubers that make a sustainable half a mil or more a year. I also, if I want to exit to a more corporate job, can do so years ahead of similar experienced corporate colleagues because of the breadth experience.
That said, have I thought about trying to do my own thing, or exiting to a client, or doing anything to spend more time with family? Of course. The grind sucks, even as you get more senior. I have less to do than those below me, but now I have public companies who entirely rely on me to decide if they should do a transformative deal or sell themselves. I’m fully in charge of making sure the team does the right financial analysis, puts together the right pages, and runs the process appropriately to maximize value / diligence appropriately. So while I spend less time at my computer, the stress is often higher.
All that to say, the job is tough and there are pros and cons no matter how senior you get, but you certainly get monetarily rewarded for it in a way that makes it worth it for, at least, a lot of people. But it’s absolutely not for everyone.
It’s not linear, though. I don’t work twice as much as my FAANG peers (on the business side, maybe software developers it’s different but totally different skill set and ability to be successful so don’t think it’s reasonable to compare) but I do earn twice as much as my peers there. No long term successful business employee at FAANG is working 45 hours a week, they are working more like 55 while I’m working 70. And every year I stay in finance that gap widens, in a few years it’ll be three times as much. And every year you spend in finance is worth two years of experience to your eventual jumping off point, if you do, over those in corporate (it’s really more of a step function by levels, but essentially this is the case). Meaning, essentially, finance has an option value that doesn’t exist once you start down the other corporate paths.
And in terms of reaching those levels of success in finance? Let’s be clear, on the sell side anyone can make it up to MD. There are all these stats about how only x% people make VP/Director and it all ignores the war of attrition that happens and the amount of people who simple don’t care enough to put in the work or just get burnt out. That’s not to say they don’t make valid choices, but it’s not until MD where people with any modicum of talent truly start to not get promoted and forced out. That means you have probably ten years, 5mm+ in earnings, and the ability to leave to a corporate senior Director/VP level role paying $400k+ before you have to worry about getting pushed out.
Does it suck at times? Of course. Is it worth it for everyone? No. Does it put you in a much better trajectory for your future self than almost every other corporate job? Easily, and on a risk weighted basis more than any other career listed here, as well.
The real questions aren’t “does someone have an e-commerce business that sustains them” but more “even with the hours do I like the work enough to make it tolerable, or even enjoyable” and “does getting ahead compensation wise and in my career actually matter that much to me and my family or would I be happier having my time back but be less financially independent, not just at 25 or 30 but significantly so at 45 and 50”. And maybe any one specific person might find that success in their e-commerce business that means having both time and money, but on a risk weighted scale, your average analyst/associate/VP is making that trade off and you have to decide for yourself what your hierarchy of needs are.
I think it's time for you to lose your virginity!