Advice for London applicants
There used to be a 20 FAQ London edition made by Pan Monkey which had everything you needed to know about London recruiting but it seems to have disappeared. I'm not going to remake that in any way but I thought I'd comment on more niche things/trends that I, and my friends, have noticed about London recruiting. This advice applies to SA and spring week recruiting: I don't know anything about off-cycles, placements or full-time.
FWIW: Just started work at a top US BB in S&T but had some EB IBD SA offers. Did a summer internship but no spring week. Went to "target" to study something irrelevant. Helped a few kids this and last year who ended up getting some good springs and summers so know a fair amount about recruiting. Will be a long post.
N.B. If you disagree with something, instead of blindly dropping MS and leaving, list what you disagree with; its useful for prospects to have multiple perspectives.
1) Do not listen to Americans (re: recruiting)
- Starting off with a simple one. If you're recruiting for London; listen to and use London-centric sources. A lot of the advice out there is US-centric and not relevant to London. Our recruiting culture is very different. The reputation of different banks here is very different.
- Given the industry, most sources and forums are American centric and a lot of them end up commenting (through no fault of their own) a lot of nonsense on London posts. The decisions you make based on their comments can have immense career ramifications. Please focus on London-focused advice.
- A few examples of differences: EBs are much stronger in the US than in London; I've seen a few people now take things like PJT over BAML because of what they have seen on WSO relating to exits which has honestly gotten tiresome. Unless you really like the culture/have a passion for Rx, there's no reason to take most EBs over a decent BB in London at all. They don't have the same reputation or dealfow as their NYC counterparts (LAZ and ROTH are notable exceptions). Networking isn't a standard part of recruiting in the UK as it is in the States and technicals are less relevant (more on these later).
2) Don't overcomplicate things + buy help
- Spring week and internship recruiting is pretty straightforward; you don't need to micromanage and overprepare. This includes reaching out to hundreds of people for advice or trying to get interview/hirevue questions in advance. There are diminishing returns on preparing for interviews and applications; once you reach a minimum threshold, you don't need to go further. Its hard to accept, but that's just how it is; you cannot micromanage recruiting to maximise your odds. It is simply not that deep. They want real human beings, not BIWS drones.
- All you really need: a standardised CV which has been checked by a few people, a cover letter you've spent no more than an hour making, a good "why IB/why this firm" answer. Competencies and behaviourals will generally test your ability to be articulate, think on the spot and have a structured answer. In order to succeed you need to: a) not have a rehearsed answer and b) have a collection of experiences you can talk about that can be spun to hit the most frequent competencies. If you learn to be calm during interviews and not too anxious (for some of you this isn't possible and I empathise with that), you will realise that you can think about your answer and put something together organically which is strong and makes you seem likable.
- The only service you should ever pay for is something like JobTestPrep which helps you practise for the tests. The tests cut a lof people; you need to practice to get better at them. Do not pay for CV writing/reading services, mentoring or masterclasses. They aren't worth it. You can find the same advice online for free if you ask the right questions on r/financialcareers or on WSO. It might reassure you that you're taking a hold of your future by purchasing masterclasses and seminars but in reality that's just lulling you into a sense of false reassurement. You can't buy an interview. You just need to apply. I saw a student-ran club run some masterclasses at some point (pretty sure the owners don't even have decent internships themselves but hey-ho) and I found it bizarre that people pay for them. Its a good business to run for the owners but you are not getting your moneys-worth as a consumer.
- Technicals aren't a major aspect of sellside recuiting. Most firms won't ask them. Myself and my friends were never asked them. They're not asked as much as they are in the states where pretty much all research/IBD roles will ask them but I have heard of a few smaller firms (and occasionally BBs) ask them here. I was under the impression its because people mention them or their CV alludes to them being present so the interviewer (who has quite a bit of free-reign outside of the HR-demanded questions) decided to grill them. Some PE firms probably ask about LBOs if you're wanting to break into one out of UG. I know some top hedge funds don't ask technicals though. Main takeaway: learn them if you want but most places won't ask them unprovoked. Its a personal decision unlike in the States.
3) Don't overdo networking
- Don't ignore networking, but for larger banks it won't usually lead to refferrals unless you've got an exceptional connection. Even then depending on the bank HR might end up blocking any impact it might have. You don't need to schedule multiple coffee chats to break in like you do in the states; definitely do some so you can learn more about the bank and culture and can talk about it in interviews.
If this post does well/there's enough demand I might make a buyside out of UG recruiting guide since I have some experience with it and there seems to be a lot of misinfo going around about it.
Disagree with a number of things, and I do think that while it’s helpful to simplify the process you haven’t really given the entire picture. This is what I have to say having gone through 2 SA cycles and now FT;
If you’re not black and / or female AND inexperienced, odds will not be in your favour (even if you’re at a target). It helps if you speak a euro language, but even then it’s an uphill battle. EVERY single first year student (who didn’t convert their spring) should find something to do in the summer; cold mail hundreds of small places expressing interest in unpaid work, ideally doing something m&a/accounting related. Even if you converted your spring, you might get fucked during team selection for SA if your team doesn’t want kids who don’t know anything (know multiple people this happened to).
Interviews CAN get technical, this is simply firm/program/interviewer dependent. Better to overprepare and call it a breeze retrospectively.
This leads me to my next point on technicals/experience; in my team there are 5 interns. 2 of them have done nothing but pull numbers and edit slides for “prospective” pitches. What are the chances they’ll be coming back?
Networking can materialise (again odds are slim), but you shouldn’t do it with the objective of it. You should speak to people to learn, they’re taking time to speak with you so appreciate it and cherish it. No one likes a kid who sets up a coffee to ask you shit you can find on google (another reason to spend time learning/preparing to your best).
Cumulatively, it’s a mindset. The sooner you understand the level of hard work, productivity and dedication needed to do all of this properly (AND manage your studies/student life), the better. From my experience people who recruited easily were the ones who were less productive/always bitching about work. Know what you are signing up for, understand what this really means and you’ll be less miserable.
Overall might seem a little pessimistic on my end but I just wanted this to be candid.
Forgive me if I'm wrong; but I don't see how this disagrees with anything I've said? I was pretty clear that I'm not establishing a guide for recruiting (pan monkey made one already and there's a useful on the student room) I'm just listing some more niche observations.
1) I didn't touch on the diversity piece because I'm not giving generic advice on recruiting. This may or may not be true. I can only speak from my experiences as someone who isn't female or black and found recruiting pretty straightforward alongside my friends who had similar circumstances. I haven't commented on this though so I don't see how its a disagreement. Unless my post came across in a manner that suggested recruiting is easy and a breeze for everyone. I don't think it has but the main point I wanted to stress in regards to the recruiting process itself was that micromanaging isn't a good use of time and people shouldn't start throwing money at the problem. Recruiting for good firms is obviously very competitive and I agree that getting XP after the first year is important, I just didn't want to talk about that in this post.
2) I haven't said interviews cannot get technical. Maybe I have understated how prevalent they are which is fair but I wanted to get across that they're not as prevalent as they are in the US where every single shop will ask you technical questions. I haven't advocated not learning them. As a side note: I am 100% in favour of getting familiar with technicals before a summer internship after you've secured one (if you haven't already brushed up on them during recruiting). Its not relevant to the SA recruiting process itself so I didn't mention it.
3) I don't think we're disagreeing on networking here.
Overall I don't see where we disagree outside of tonality; perhaps my post illustrated recruiting being much more straightforward and easier than it actually is which of course should be called out.
SB'd
EDIT: I wasn't trying to simplify the process at all fwiw, these are just extra points to consider once you know what the process actually is. As I've said in my OP and here, there are a number of resources that actually do elaborate on the process. I don't know what happened to Pan's post though...
Here is the link to PEM's post:
https://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forum/investment-banking/20-most-freque…
I love interns arguing with interns on giving advice to would be interns
congrats on bristol buddy