Anger management issues - any advice?
I’m not sure what it is but I feel like lately I’m often unhappy, both at people on my project teams and at myself. Angry my associate does little to nothing most of the day and takes forever to get anything done, angry my vp sends constant streams of comments on email, skype, text, calls, and teams at all hours of the day on even profile slides. On top of that, feel tired from constant pitching, being underpaid, unsure about exit opps, minor back discomfort etc. I don’t hate the job, and find some aspects of it to be interesting when not doing pitch work, but random things just get me pissed at random times of the day.
Anyone else here get this way sometimes or have any advice on how to deal with being unhappy? Why don’t I feel more joy during the majority of my day? In my 2nd analyst year and wondering how others cope with this. Best days were surely when I was senior year of college, where I could sleep all day at random times, play video games, exercise regularly and spend my day doing whatever I felt like or doing nothing and was much more relaxed than now, where I’m working until 2am, sometimes even on weekends, working on text changes and alphabetizing ppt logos
I experienced this frequently as an analyst 1, occasionally as an analyst 2. I think it’s a result of being put onto menial and mindless work, inefficient deal teams, or it could be the general environment of the group you’re in as well. Overworked and underpaid is such a crappy feeling. After I lateraled to a different shop, my mood significantly improved and I didn’t feel as constantly angry, only occasionally. The environment you’re in can make a big difference.
Also sleep, the weeks where I slept more than 7hr per night consistently, I was far more relaxed even if we had more work during the day.
The lack of sleep was why I couldn't stick with banking. It just absolutely soured my mood 24/7, and getting less than 6 hours of sleep a night made me an angry, narcissistic POS. Idk, it really brought out the worst in me. I got myself back once my hours improved and I left IB
I was somewhat the same. I was in DCM and moved to corporate banking for better wlb, and definitely had better hours on the job, but I had more free time to do other stuff like gaming so I’d stay awake til like 4 or 5am on some days if I could WFH the next day, which made me more irritable when I was working and just when I was at home
I’d suggest to take some walks throughout the day, don’t just stay sitting at your desk for more than 1 hour at a time. Try walking around or getting a coffee outside too not just inside, this can help improve your mood. I’ve noticed I often get increasingly angry and anxious from sitting in front of a computer all day, helps to stretch and be distracted. Work isn’t supposed to occupy every waking minute of your day.
Ever take a few days or weeks off and notice you’re much happier? It’s because you’re just not in front of a screen, and you should definitely take days to chill and unwind.
I had a friend from uni who got pretty burnt out from ib because he worked at a sweaty place, constant 80+ hour weeks, but work was his life - he genuinely thought he enjoyed what he was doing, and even on days he was on vacation, he felt like he needed to log in and try to contribute to projects here and there to feel a sense of purpose, so he probably still worked 30-40 hours a week during his vacation weeks, which was kind of odd and I didn’t really understand the mentality. He eventually left for a different field and was much happier with better balance of work and free time.
Yeah I think going outside is helpful, same with cardio, even if it’s just walking around for half an hour
What worked for me was I took time to reflect where I wanted to be in a year, two years time: How do I want to look, what would I want to be doing, how much money would I be making, where would I want to be living etc.. Be honest and dream big with this process, what would you do if anything you thought of you can accomplish (use common sense of course, you can't grow wings and fly to space or become a billionaire) Once I have that sketched out (not literally) in DETAIL, I start to reverse engineer this vision and more or less figure out my path toward that end point, the actions I have to take TODAY and start acting. Then every day I go over this vision and work towards it. Sooner or late you will get there and everything you now do will have a purpose.
Agree with the others that sleep and getting some time outside/walking around will really help. Also, therapy. This is all normal IB stuff and don't think it's anything wrong with you, but it can be really helpful to have someone to just talk it out with and work on strategies to help you handle it better.
Extra points if you can find someone who has a background in career help / stress & anger management, but really any trained therapists will be a sounding board. Have a zoom appt blocked during lunch or ~5pm. It really helped me when I started going, even if you're just venting an hour a week about how awful your VP is it's helpful to have someone listen and empathize.
Therapy. This is the best answer.
It’ll help you to get your anger under control now, while you’re still early in your career. The frustrations won’t go away with time or seniority, they’ll just change. The way to avoid turning into the kinda jerk at work that everyone hates and makes everyone else miserable (if you stay in banking or go elsewhere) is to get this under control now. It takes work, and it’ll be uncomfortable. It’s good for you, and it’ll benefit everyone who will ever know you or work for you.
Remember that your coworkers, the one “safe” senior in the office, your friends / family, and the Internet are not free on-demand therapists. They’re not trained to handle it, and they are more motivated to either mollify you, or to make themselves feel better, than to actually help you. You gotta trust the pros.
Does anyone here go to therapy and find it helpful? Is it expensive in nyc?
I have - about 5/6 years ago and it took some time but it was hugely helpful. It’s much less expensive nowadays than it was in the past. There are apps for therapy and it’s really affordable and much more accessible. In 2018 I was paying $120/session but now it’s easy to find a therapist that takes your insurance and the out of pocket costs are minimal.
Agree with the other person - try Headway or Alma to find someone who takes your insurance. I go to therapy for no cost with insurance, I have a 40 minute weekly zoom appt that I take from a small conference room at 5pm... so really no downside. Teams are generally respectful of you stepping away for a short time and I've only had to cancel for fire drills a few times.
You may need to try a few different providers to find someone you gel with, and it does take some effort to see improvement. But these days when you can get therapy for low or no cost, it's worth a try
Yep I've found therapy to be a major value-add, have been seeing my therapist for close to a decade now. It takes a little trial and error to find the right one, but once you do its a gamechanger
Yes 1000% if you think therapy would help, as in if you're entertaining the thought at all, give it a try. It's probably gonna run you $100-150/session. But if you need it, it's worth it. If therapy is one of the things that helps you stay sane as you work in this pressure cooker environment, then it's ROI is huge. Just note that it can take some searching to find the right therapist. If someone isn't give you a great vibe, pass and look for someone else.
It may seem like a bit of work and effort to get started, but it really is worth it if you need it. This is all coming from a guy who didn't understand why people needed it until I had to seek it out for something I'm currently battling.
There was a period in my second or third year analyst year where I flipped my mind set. I went from being a typically Ivy League kid, overachieving, caring about every detail, anxious my work had to be perfect, and just realized that I could coast by mid bucket for the rest of my career and still make more money than 99% of people on earth.
It was kind of like that scene in office space where the therapist changes his mindset and then dies so he can never come out of it.
Once you realize that mediocre work still gets you promoted, your stress goes away. When your vp send you some throwaway comment on a profile slide, simply don’t turn it. What’s gonna happen? He sends you more emails? You’re not gonna get fired or something. Juniors ignore my comments sometimes too, I just assumed they are slammed and do it myself or ask another junior. Stop caring so much.
I appreciate this sentiment, but I wonder how true it is. I’m someone, like you at least used to be, who cares a lot about his work and trying to do the best job I can. I virtually never cut corners, although I think this bites me in the ass because sometimes I get accused of taking too long to complete certain tasks.
In any case, during my first year, I thought of myself as being a top bucket analyst. Of course, bonus season came around and I only got mid bucket, much to my surprise and dismay. A few months later, I found out that I did not receive a third-year offer, but I did fortunately avoid being outright laid off like some of my coworkers a couple weeks earlier. This has honestly been a huge blow to my ego, especially because I know for a fact I do a better job and care more about work than at least a couple of the kids who did receive offers. Granted, it’s worth noting that our analyst class is quite small, so there’s certainly an element of luck or lack thereof.
I consider myself to be a very ambitious person and I want to perform at the highest level, and I genuinely believe that I am capable of that. I’m probably not the only person who feels this way, but I genuinely feel like my bank simply isn’t able to recognize my abilities / potential. Do you have any advice for me?
What do you mean you doubt the veracity of my statement? That I secretly still work super hard and am telling you I don’t? Or that if you slack off it doesn’t matter?
If we are talking in absolutes, then I guess my advice seems weak. If you work super hard every day, first one in and last one out, then yes, it has to make a difference eventually and you will likely rise. And if you are indifferent and lazy, eventually it catches up to you.
But my advice is always much more nuanced, and I guess I just assume that people should realize this.
When I say don’t care as much, I don’t mean turn into a lazy and unreliable analyst. I mean work just hard enough to always keep your job or get promoted.
Thinking about it, I have never had a great work ethic. In all honesty, I’m just smarter than the average person. I procrastinate and try to get by with the bare minimum in every situation. It’s just that in investment banking, the bare minimum is still a lot of work lol. In business school a guest speaker said he loves hiring lazy (but smart people), because they will always figure out the most efficient way to do a process. That’s me. After a few months somewhere, I can just figure out what instructions to disregard because that page is never checked, and what instructions are important to actually do.
In your case, you seem to care a lot about the job and have taken your mediocre reviews very personal. And I get that. Everyone I went to school with and everyone in family is ambitious. Sometimes I wish I cared more, I could have been a principal in PE or something, but that drive has never been there to go above and beyond. When my father or wife always tell me that I am not living up to my full potential, I always retort that I’m doing so much better than the average or even above average person, it’s a silly argument. Sure I could be doing better, but how much money and prestige does one need? If you’re making over 400k, I don’t think anyone should question your drive. So you need to find what level of success is acceptable to you, and then ignore anyone who tries to say you can do more if you’re happy where you are.
In your case, I can see that you’re frustrated that things have not gone exactly your way. Maybe you think too much of your abilities and you really are not top bucket. Or maybe you are top but your team overlooks you.
My advice is this. Learn to accept that corporate life is not like school. There is no test where it is easy to see who did best on something and who did not. Life is about who you know, who you are friends with and what people’s perception is of you.
Its likely your mid bucket not because of your intelligence or work product, but because the seniors simply like the other juniors more.
The best MD at my bank is not the smartest, he’s the one with the biggest Rolodex.
Did you ever see the movie Wall Street? Gecko was top dog, not because of his raw intellect, but because of who he knew and the fact he could get inside info.
What I am trying to say is that you should spend less time finding that perfect comp or making sure the market update slides are perfect and spend more time sucking up to your seniors.
It is not what you know, but who you know that really matters.
Say Goosfraba over and over again.
I also resonate with this...
Best way I deal with it is through gym and also having 1 or 2 friends i can vent to.
Hang in there man, things get better.
Totally get it, your whole situation sounds frustrating. Not to play therapist here, but if you find some aspects of the job interesting, feels like your unhappiness comes from (a) the assholes you work with and (b) the mindless part of the job.
(B) is just part of the job you have to deal with. You should consider leveraging your A1s for more of that and managing rather than doing. Logo rearrangement, stupid commentary, text and formatting changes, that sort of thing. A2s are super valuable to me, and I expect mine to be supervising that kinda shit rather than doing.
(A) is more frustrating in that its not something you can control. I take a "this too shall pass" mentality to that. If you're able to pass off the menial stuff to A1s as above, think it should help with your state of mind as well.
Echo what some of the other posters have said, therapy has worked wonders for me and not trying to be perfect / top bucket takes some off the pressure off.
Take less adderall, exercise, and catch some z’s
Yeah agree that exercise and sleep can help stabilize my mood, adderall probably does not lol
What city/region are you in?
I get this vibe from Houston bankers a lot.
Can you confirm?
Can definitely confirm lol
Wait really, why?
I would just start jerking it in the break room to relieve yourself…
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