Another desperate chimp
Hi all,
So, a bit of background on me - I'm at a Russel Group semi-target uni. Finished my undergrad (poor-ish grades- challenging degree and circumstances), also hated my course but got through it doing the minimum. In hindsight, I should have changed course, but I decided instead of redoing the year, I would do an MSc in finance at the same uni. I'm doing well and confident I will get a distinction. I am also pursuing the CFA passed level 1 - and a long list of extracurricular - leadership, volunteering, sports etc.
I didn't always know I wanted to do IB and, therefore, haven't much experience. However, I did a relevant internship in finance this summer. I have spoken with BB IB recruiters to no avail - just the usual advice. I am not getting anywhere with my applications for SA/ Off-cycle roles in IB.
I am appealing to WSO for advice. Do I need to stand out more, i.e. more extracurricular, wait for my grades? Network? Also, advice on networking would be great. I don't want to annoy people on LinkedIn, or should I be sending messages/emails to everyone?
I am incredibly driven to break into IB, and I know I will eventually. Still, it is rather harsh sometimes with setback after setback. Also, regarding getting applications in, I am finding it unsustainable to be spending approximately 6 hours per application to be relatively quickly rejected. ( These applications have been checked by careers and deemed a high standard). Any and all advice will be thoroughly appreciated. I have browsed the forum and realise this could be semi-similar to some things here. Still, as much detail as possible would be appreciated. A bit of encouragement would also be fantastic.
Cheers guys!
Might be easy to diagnose the problem if you look at which stage it goes wrong; screening, tests, interviews (competency and/or technical)
If you can look back and identify at which stage things start going wrong it might be easier to avoid the same mistakes. As for now, you should just start cold mailing small shops and get some real work experience. If you’re a postgrad at a semi-target with no real work experience, that is your biggest problem and you should deal with it ASAP.
Best of luck
What's your GPA? Also what do you mean by relevant finance experience, do you mean corporate finance? That should help. Also the CFA is useless, maybe it can help show you're interested in finance, but your time is better spent elsewhere. My advice would be to start networking like crazy, like literally get on the phone with 5 people per week. Also stop recruiting for bulge bracket firms, focus all of your efforts on small banks
Thanks for your reply, very much appreciated. I’m in the UK so my GPA equivalent for undergrad was 3.0 with genuine circumstances
, and holding a 4.0 for postgrad roughly.
My experience was in a small shop private equity firm over the summer, through connections and went super well, I.e good reference but they’re not looking to take anyone new on unfortunately.
I’ve heard similar about the CFA, but I have a scholarship to do it for free, and my course is supposed to integrate 70% of the CBOK, so wanted to take it to try and offset my poor GPA and show I am capable.
Is there any way you would recommend targeting these small shops- I struggle to even find them in London, should I be messaging on LinkedIn or finding emails on their websites and emailing - should it be a template or tailored to each person, with research done on them? Thank you in advance!
Nice that internship should help, make sure you can explain what your role was in interviews. I don’t really know anything about the UK scene but you can use either LinkedIn or email, but if you use email make sure to include your resume. Try and find something about the person you’re reaching out to that is unique, like maybe include one line about why they made the switch from private equity to investment banking or whatever, but don’t spend more than 30 seconds on it. It’s more about quantity than quality. In the email keep it brief, just ask for a quick 15 minute phone call because you want to learn more about their career. And yes use a template but just write one up yourself, it only takes like 1 minute and then copy and paste
Need more info:
Undergrad grade? 2.1 or 2.2?
A level grades? Presume ABB and higher?
Rough size of PE firm internship?
Which part of finance are you aiming for? M&A / capital markets or ST / ER / AM?
2:2, just shy of 2:1 but higher marks in unaffected years.
A levels AAB, PE was family office 2 deals whilst I was there, mainly kept busy with hypothetical work, little bit of live experience, did quite a lot of modelling that I impressed with (quite good with excel) and some pitch decks and a project I did throughout. Overall, good experience for me, but not sure it’s carrying much weight. Aiming for M&A as genuinely find it interesting and want the transferable deal skills. Any advice super appreciated, I.e. Networking tips and how to find these smaller shops, as would not have known of mine if it wasn’t for connections. Thank you.
The 2.2 is causing the issues.
Action plan:
- Keep applying for summer internships at the large banks for IBD roles, flagging up any mitigating circumstances. Include the % on you CV (e.g. 59.5%) with a one liner on what these circumstances are. HR filters will most likely screen you out of the process but you never know
- Also apply to any entry-level roles at large non-bulge bracket banks. These will be the likes of your French / Italian / Spanish / Asian banks. Target roles like corporate banking, structured finance. Same approach re: grades as per above
- Target corporate finance boutiques that are either looking for entry level candidates and network directly with guys that work there
- This is your best route: apply to the big 4 and other accounting firms (BDO, GT, RSM). Their HR teams tend to be more understanding re: mitigating circumstances and some of them don't have 2.1 requirements. Try and land a position within M&A, Debt Advisory. Business Modelling, Infrastructure Advisory, Transaction Services. If that's not possible. Otherwise, apply for Audit. Doing the ACA will provide more credibility academic-wise. You'd be surprised at the exit opportunities from these places. From big 4 audit, having the CFA level 1, and potentially maybe having done a financial modelling course would put you in good stead to get into big 4 CF. From there, you can move into mid-market IBD. Otherwise from say a GT Audit, you could move into GT M&A, then big 4 M&A, and then into MM IBD.
- I actually wouldn't bother with the companies that the likes of Dartmouth Partners run - they utilise a cookie cutter approach and it would be a waste of time.
- Apply for Finance rotational programmes at large FTSE 250 and above businesses, ideally ones that have some sort of corporate development / strategy / investor relations rotation. Then from there, apply to corporate development (internal M&A positions). In select cases, you can then make the jump to M&A advisory firms that cover the same sector.
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