Are all VPs insufferable?
Every “senior-midlevel” if you will seems to be either unintelligent, lazy, or a complete d-bag who is mad at the world.
How is any analyst supposed to mitigate this? In my scenario this guy treats women great (likely as he is socially/romantically inept) but practically views men as a threat and feels the need to exert his “dominance” at every opportunity. (Bro you’re almost 40 does dunking on 20-something year olds get you off?)
Creates false deadlines and puts down other analysts over the phone.
What can be done to end this behavior?
outside of money and quick promotions, most people would pick other jobs. The IB process is inefficient. An analyst or associate's definition of a good VP (is through a very narrow lens of someone who makes their lives less miserable) is different from a VP's perception. It's 80/20 and most of your guys' work is BS. But if these demands didnt exist, you probably need less seats for juniors. You'll get a better sense for these things in 10 years when you've been in a few different seats at that table and at different firms. You can complain all you want, but you're in a very previliged position for your age so while it sucks, put up with a smile or get to better seats asap. It gets better with time
100%.
Perspective is everything. Analysts and Associates usually have little. It takes time to gain proper perspective.
Don’t agree with the sentiment that analysts or associates evaluate a VP solely based on their ability to make one’s life less miserable. Kind of a myopic and oversimplified view of the point of this post.
A truly competent VP can and should cut through the shit, reduce unnecessary iterations, and be open to feedback and suggestions. The consequence of this is often that the analyst or associates lives are easier, but it need not be the intent. Sometimes slaving away is unavoidable. Sometimes things really do need to be perfect. But in a busy market, good enough should suffice especially on early turns, or things won’t get done and business will be lost.
A lot of VPs miss the bigger picture. Don’t let perfection be the enemy of progress.
Solid take, but would add that this also depends massively on the setup — if you work with a lean team (one VP or D, not 2-3 of each) and a reasonable/results-oriented MD (not 3 justifying their revenue take), then all this can and should be done.
Fortunate enough to work in such a setup and trying to pass this along by producing ready-to-send drafts which often see only minimal, subjective edits before going out — the team appreciates this as it increases trust during drafting/crunching and, in turn, MDs appreciate it since they get a ready product.
This doesn’t work if the mid-level guy or gal is insecure and/or has a bad standing, which often means extra turns, unnecessary analyses (“to check”), throwing people under the bus if not hitting the mark etc… also the case for “top performers” who only ‘impress’ by grinding the team and delivering early drafts when nobody asked for it…
It’s the level when, in many organizations, the introvert characteristics really have to transfer into extrovert or “extrovert-adjacent” and people start looking for D/MD material. Also, contrary to some views here, it’s often the most unthankful role since you sign off everything and get credit for (almost) nothing, but that’s a nugget for those who know ;)
Holy shit dude I found an Associate 1 that knows how the whole world works and can tell VPs and MDs how to do their jobs!
You and everyone else in the bullpen buddy, you don't know shit about fuck. Hope your VP fucks your mom tonight while you're turning comments - get dicked on bud.
Yes. Middle management is the bane of all existence to those who are not middle management.
True for every industry, including IB.
Until you realize that the only reason you exist as an Analyst/Associate is because some VP consistently bullshits and goes to bat for you every year acting like you're doing things they couldn't do while they're busier learning how to ~be more client facing~
“Every “senior-midlevel” if you will seems to be either unintelligent, lazy, or a complete d-bag who is mad at the world.”
Yes and yes (too lazy for third yes)
This is so true tbh.
Because either you’re intelligent and hardworking, which is never worth it so you’re mad at the world.
Or you’re intelligent and lazy, which is the play tbh.
Or you’re dumb and mad at the world, because you have to work so hard for similar outcomes to the lazy.
Half joking..
These “all vps suck” posts come across like a student saying he hates his teacher.
Do you hate your teacher bc she actually sucks or just bc she gives you work and holds you to a high standard of work?
There are definitely bad teachers and bad vps but without knowing the specifics of a situation, it’s hard to know which is the case
Addressing the scant detail in this post: kowtowing to female analysts and berating male analysts is bad.
But there’s also a school of thought that says that you should tailor your approach to speak to people the way they want to be spoken to and not address people all in the same manner. Oftentimes, and unfortunately, that means coddling the women (who frequently aren’t accustomed to direct speech/feedback) while speaking frankly with the men.
Not all VPs are bad, but the ones that are live rent free in my head
My girlfirend used to fuck a VP at JPM who was a pretty big douchebag and always looked down on me because my dad worked at DA Davidson as an Advisory Co-Head.
lol this is a wild comment
😂 wtf bro
That is an interesting relationship that you had going on….
I’ve seen both types, two of the three I work closely with are great, helpful and can execute/drive forward processes. One is a complete dumpster fire, a real how the fuck did you get promoted type. Being a VP sucks, no longer a junior and not a senior, neither fish nor fowl. I will say the common denominator for the good ones is they are helpful to juniors and are efficient. Our MDs fortunately don’t want “boil the ocean” analysis in pitches, but the one shitty VP is always trying to “add value”, which he could do by just getting out of the way.
Meh, would say micromanaging loser senior analysts / junior associates who think they know everything are a lot worse
My take as a VP was always this - less quantity and more quality. No one reads massive slide decks or write-ups. Focus on a couple of major trend items, internal or external, and let's focus on those. In my opinion any slide deck over 20 slides is basically worthless. I did the same as a CEO.
Agree with this. Most VPs aren’t bad but a lot of them are anal about the wrong things. They will tell you to fix the format of a footnote at 3am, while skipping over the fact the team used the wrong target EBITDA
No, not all VP’s suck most do. Like every single one you interact with except one during your stint (maybe).
As others have mentioned, middle managers almost everywhere are pretty uninspiring not creative people. The current VP’s can hop on here talking about how they are teachers and analysts “don’t know shit about f” but the VP’s I interacted with as an analyst earlier in my career were just generally lightweights frankly. The IB path attracts and retains a certain type of person that is ok with just mindless bullshit and politics and a rigid hierarchy of promotion. They also can hop on here and say how analysts and people above have a different idea of a good vp and that’s somewhat true but generally wrong.
VP’s want to act like there’s no way to have excellence without being an insufferable asshole and that the VP’s analysts like are chill people who dgaf. But the actual good VP’s are commonly empathetic Analyst to VPs. What a good VP looks like is someone who gives visibility to a deal process and communicates and lets you know the late night is coming up rather than springing it on you. They are the person who after 2 very late night says, “hey, get a good night sleep let me take over, but you need to be all gas tomorrow”
You can demand excellence and not be an insecure prick worried every last detail is going to land you in hot water. Good VPs have an ability to make the whole deal team more confident and MD’s see that. It’s about predicting unpredictability and knowing how to keep analysts from putting out shit work because they are so exhausted. It’s also about raising moral and coming in at the 11th hour to push things over the finish line.
Just to throw another shot across the bow, for all the VP’s on here, you really do suck. Your ability to manage wouldn’t fly at a Burger King and the analysts are smarter than you and we both know it.
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