What banks are the chillest? I am a person who cares very little about prestige and exit opps. All banks pay well, maybe not street, but still better than any other industry right out of UG. What banks just seem to be relaxed and chill? I would imagine the MMs are the most relaxed and least stressful. Would I be right about that?
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Ducera
Financial Technology Partners (140k base)
I think you have a misconception that banking is stressful based solely on culture. This is partly the reason, but the biggest reason is incentive structure and the nature of the business. I'd estimate most banks (Even MM) have the same level of stress (give or take 10% depending on culture) based solely on their role as an investment bank
If you have a "chill" bank - that probably means you have very slow deal flow
Hey, kinda new here. What does MM stands for?
Banks that operate in the Middle-Market (transactions typically under 500M in EV)
Mark Meldrum
BofA deez
You'd be right, but the average is very misleading. The normal curve around culture is extremely broad, and even chill banks can have toxic teams. And you only get to roll the dice a small number of times. There are some great BB teams, and some outlandish MM teams. That said, I'd agree with the VERY general statement that smaller banks tend to be more relaxed
In some sense, this is kind of like asking “smallest sumo wrestler.” There’s no BB, EB, or MM that is “chill” in the slightest.
I don’t know of any bank where there aren’t some teams working at least 70-80 hours/week. Even if you join a “chiller” bank, there are some groups that work more hours than the most laid back groups at more intense banks.
I recommend positions other than IB. Equity research and S&T pay more than 99% of entry-level careers, and you might “only” work 50-60 hours/week outside of earnings.
Yeah but both ER and S&T have high risk of automation/AI
Implying you can’t automate templated slides and models
I don’t think that’s any more true than it is for IB. The value add for ER isn’t modeling or data analysis, which, admittedly, computers can do well through pattern recognition and simple command-following. It’s writing to defend an investment thesis thoughtfully, and opinion-forming. That’s not something that can be automated away at this point. A computer cannot hop on a call with the buyside and have a comprehensive discussion about investments, go on a roadshow with a company’s CEO, or host an earnings call/industry conference. As for S&T, sales is a very human thing, and it hasn’t been established that quantitative trading, in all cases, outperforms real people. The market isn’t such an exact science.
Of course, some modeling and statement-formation/data pulling can be done by machines, but that holds for IB as well.
There are surely risks to both ER and S&T, career progression among them, but I don’t think AI and automation are on the precipice of killing these roles.
HSBC. Pay is below street, but hours are also way lower. Front office HSBC is basically back office JPM in regards to hours.
Know friends here, agree.
Lol this is so true. Have friend in HSBC and hours are like 10-7pm in office before heading home, and working a few hours at home.
Whilst my friend at JPM Tech is doing 8-7pm in office and needs to be on call effectively anytime.
This is a complete lie.
Know a couple of VPs / directors in London.
Juniors are bone idle. Associates are the worst apparently.
All lie about their staffing and when the Seniors turn up the pressure on deals to hit deadlines the juniors go and complain to the staffer.
Although the TMT team is decent under Bailey and works hard. Seen them on the other side a couple of times.
I have heard from friends of friends that Santander is v chill
Will this change with new CS hires?
Possibly but it would take time
Can only guess really
In non CF functions, yes. But in CF, you work the same hours as BB
Less hours than BB
TM Capital is pretty chill
TM in Boston does not have chill hours lol
Wells Fargo maybe
.
Which teams are chill vs sweaty?
Ubs can be chill (for a bb). Post cs merger who knows
MM doesn’t equate to chillness.
No bank is chill like a normal job. You’re paid for your time and soul
This guy gets it. Also, there’s always money in a banana stand
Don't a lot of the capital markets focused balance sheet banks have pretty light hours? Downside is that's because of a lack of advisory business I'd imagine. Talking about Truist, ING, HSBC, Regions, Citizens, etc.
But people are right deal flow correlates to hours pretty strongly.
At one of these banks, and confirming that culture is not toxic where you’re forced to work insane hours; however, hours, if not by culture, are a byproduct of your staffing. If you’re on 3 deals and a pitch you’re going to be working long hours no matter the culture of the firm. It’s the nature of the work itself
Truist industry groups are not chill at all other than Consumer. You’re going to work hard because the industry groups do all M&A in house. Product groups are chill.
Only heard good things about BofA culture if you care about a strong bank alongside chill hours.
If don't really care about bank prowess, then balance sheet banks which churn out debt mandates.
Bank of America has good culture but it is NOT a lifestyle bank.
Are hours at BofA similar to GS / MS / JPM?
That's why I caveat if you don't care about bank prowess. The strong banks will always have bad hours.
For London, I've heard the European BBs are WAY more chill than the US BBs. At a US BB in London and I average 9-3am Monday-Thursday, 9-10pm on Fridays and 10-15 hours of weekend work. My friends at European BBs rarely leave after midnight and weekend work is very limited.
Best bet would be finding a boutique MM, maybe even LMM. Most of those guys are out of the office by 8pm.
I never worked there but heard good things about BMO.
Edit: to be clear I was referring to NYC. Idk about their other offices.
I work here and confirm Metals & Mining as well as Power & Utility group are two of the more chill groups and we're generally chill. Everything is chill, this is fine.
Are you in Toronto? Can you please check the 5th floor and make sure there is a guy turning comments on the Project Penis deck? Thanks.
.
heard decent things about wells if anyone can confirm
Pay is going to be under the market and Elizabeth Warren would love nothing more than to break them apart. They love title promotions without the pay. You could be the top performer in your group per your manager and get CPI for a pay increase. That being said, you can walk away knowing your shit, both in terms of your career and never wanting to work at Wells Fargo again.
Utter bullshit
Wells has paid middle to top of the market since Charlie took over……..(not compared to EBs, obviously)
Moelis, saying this as I’m chained to my desk drinking out of a dog bowl
I've heard that HL RX London is the chillest of them all
Citi, despite the hate they WFH 2 days and hours aren't that bad.
HL seems chill. Through talking with friends there (associates-vps), they all have lives outside of work and are even starting families. No big face-time culture, and work just gets done efficiently without the whole grind sweat-house scene.
Can confirm - office is generally empty by 7/8… not that people are done working just flexibility on where you work
Is this NY?
Depends on the group. In my experience there were some groups extremely sweaty and some were pretty chill.
Consumer food and retail (CFR) seemed chill. Don’t think I ever saw someone on that team in the office past 9 pm, and rarely saw them on weekends.
Obviously their HC teams and FRG are extremely sweaty, but highly respected. I always saw them in on weekends, especially sundays. The HC team has a saying “Sundays are Mondays” if that gives you a clue what their culture is like.
Cascadia Capital - very very chill people, $85k base + 80% - 100% bonus. I’m there now.
Which office?
Interning at Keybanc and they don’t let interns work more than 50 hours. Analysts work 50 - 70 hours. Culture is fucking awesome too.
Which office??
Interns are capped at 50 hours a week as a cost-saving initiative for the bank. Even in groups with low deal flow, analysts are working more than 50 hours a week during slower weeks, and in groups with good deal flow, analysts are working normal MM hours.
I’m summering in a “chill group” culturally - sweatiness though …
Almost don't want to share but if prestige only equals a resume highlight to you then no-name boutiques are where it's at. Office hrs 10-4 mon-thurs w/ 1-3hrs at home, only have the typical late nights/weekends for things that actually matter. No artificial deadlines, extremely minimal pitch work.
Where im at base pay is below street but comfortable in Manhattan. Non-trad bonus since firm is top heavy -- "expected" annual is 25-40%, with mini low 5-fig bonuses throughout the year based on month/quarter group production. Exp wise naturally work on smaller deals but great client exposure and in turn have the opportunity to originate deals/place investors + get a revenue cut.
Legit ones are one in a thousand but some identifiers:
- Lead by seniors/executives from top banks bringing steady deal flow. Primary reason they left is better comp (1-5% equity, all cash comp, higher revenue split). Majority also hated the bureaucracy and wanted autonomy.
- Can afford a proper back office staff, if half the employees on LinkedIn are interns it's fugazi. If there's a MD or VP with only 1-2yrs direct IB exp also fugazi.
- main office in NY or other T1 city, but meaningless in of itself.
Could I DM you to get a better since what by this might look like?
I've heard Pictet is pretty chill, but prolly hard to get into
Heard TD is really chill and has great culture.
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