Have offers from all 3, NYC IBSA,
Thoughts? I want to do UMM / MM PE in the long term and maybe grad school.
I’m honestly leaning Jefferies for their Healthcare group. I know they’re all great offers and I’m super fortunate. While Citi is a well known BB, I never hear anything about them here.
Thanks!
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There are literally 3 posts in the IB forum with "Citi" in the title....?
I can’t find them, WSO search is wonky. Do you have an opinion of which I should consider?
Would recommend searching directly from Google (that is site:wallstreatoasis.com (search query)).
Personally, I think Jeffries is too mediocre for how much they work their analysts.
I would go Citi. Most groups are top 5, and they’re good across all products (M&A, DCM, ECM). Plus they have the balance sheet to win deals. Bigger name than Jeff in and out of finance.
UBS IB is shrinking, would avoid all Euro BBs with exception of Barcap
"Too mediocre for how they work their analysts" - mediocre in what terms? Mediocre in terms of the sharp learning curve and consistent UMM/MF exits that M&A, HC and Energy get and solid UMM options for other groups like Tech/LevFin? Mediocre in terms of last year's bonuses (100K top bucket for An1)? Mediocre in terms of #8 in global fees for all investment banks?
Mediocre relative to BBs and EBs, just be honest. Can mention UMM/MF exits but you know they’re outliers (especially MF)
Got the jefferies meat sucking train on my ass with all the downvotes
Everyone knows fees is a poor metric for league tables. Is Jeff mediocre relative to the whole universe of investment banks? No. Is it mediocre when compared to BBs and EBs, well...
Isn’t recruiting done for SA at all of these places?
Yeah, they popped up and I applied, formal recruiting is done
Cap, I’m at Citi and we didn’t open up any outside recruiting for NY
Go for citi if u want to recruit for UMM PE. Just went through on cycle this year and the name brand is important. UBS / JEF, on the other hand, may get hit with a few good opps but they’re more likely MM or LMM, with perhaps a few UMM..
The problem is you're speaking in generalities. I personally know several M&A / HC analysts going to MF from this year's on cycle recruitment. Yeah for certain shittier JEF groups the placement may not be great, but every banks has shittier groups that wont get the best exits.
It’s more than just a few at Jef though. M&A, healthcare, energy, LevFin, tech are all top groups. Other groups such as Industrials are also really good.
You should go to Citi if you want the brand name. That’s it. Jefferies has the same exit opps and better pay.
Ok idk why you’re fighting for JEF so hard in these comments. Why shouldn’t we look at this in generalities? Unless OP is guaranteed for an offer into M&A at JEF vs a random group at Citi? Sure, there are strong groups at JEF that may provide you a decent exits to UMM or even MFs (MFs are really outliers here from a quick LinkedIn search), but the reality is that a decent analyst at Citi M&A will also be presented with numerous, if not more UMM/MF opportunities from the very first day of on cycle. The opportunities are not unique to JEF, in fact, M&A analysts at JP, Citi, CS, etc. are viewed as equally, if not stronger, than analysts at JEF due to the name brand. A friend of mine at M&A at BAML/Citi/Barc only interviewed with mega funds when oncycle kicked off. On the other hand, there are no real ‘bad’ groups at Citi - sure, there are a few groups that are undesirable and less wanted than say, Citi industrials or M&A, but you can’t really go wrong with it. That being said, I have a lot of respect for JEF and know you guys win some great deals in the space, albeit being high growth. But just from an exit perspective, ask any sensible incoming grad and no one is gonna pass on Citi for JEF.
Citi all day, they’ll have the most resources and capabilities to get you to a PE shop you’d like.
What's going on this thread? Citi all day. Jefferies people need to relax
Citi for sure. Not hearing about them on WSO is a terrible metric. They have plenty of strong groups.
You're just assuming you'll get Jefferies healthcare - that is literally the most competitive group they have, and potentially one of the hardest groups to land across the street period, since every Jef analyst wants it. Unless your resume is liquid gold from a top target, you can't put all your eggs in that basket.
This actually isnt true re difficulty of placing into the HC group. My roommate interned in SA 2020 and I also interviewed there for a lateral position (currently work at a BB and come across them on mandates often). The most in demand groups for the past 2 years have been the following in order (NYC only, HOU is a different process and you don't go thru the generalist program):
1. LevFin: Was the most difficult group to place into for past two years in terms of raw numbers. Hours / culture is considerably better than other top groups within JEF with the same and in some cases better exits, so this attracts a lot of kids and makes it very difficult to get placed there. Very much so a networking game here, story for why LF really matters as well, definitely more than other groups since they are such a unique group compared to other LF groups on the street (hairy, creative deals, true banking/origination group with separate capital markets team, etc). The full blown hardo kids that want to go straight to TPG after two years definitely do pref HC tho. Typical exits are broad given the nature of the product, primarily UMM PE, MM PE, MM or MF credit, L/S HF, and the occasional startup.
2. HC: Very competitive, but not as competitive as LF since reputation for rough hours detracts a lot of kids. The group is huge and they hire a TON of analysts (more than LF), so if you really want HC it's actually not that hard to place into it from a numbers perspective. Generally, the most hardo kids go for it that 100% will want to leave after 2 years. Excellent PE placement, w MF being relatively common if you want it. You will find a lot of JEF folks will tend to self select UMM for PE. Straight large cap PE exits are the best out of the NY JEF groups.
3. M&A Tough group to get placed in. Hardos love M&A. Good group but honestly overrated imo from an hours / experience / PE exits ratio. The exits are great, but MF will be very rare with hours (along with pretty much all M&A groups) being pretty tough. Part of this is the nature that JEF's top coverage groups run M&A in house (HC, energy, tech), so you will primarily be working on industrials deals on the M&A side (which are still great btw, just tend to be more UMM deal size focused but are growing). Most exits will be strong MM PE shops along with UMM PE sprinkled in. Nearly everyone who recruits for PE will get an offer somewhere out of M&A.
4. Industrials: It's about everyone's second choice if they don't get one of the above. It's the best coverage group for exits that doesnt do M&A in house. Exits are also very good for PE, primarily MM PE and UMM PE. Very, very solid choice and if you pref them as your first choice and network hard early on you are likely to get an offer unless you suck.
5. Tech. Good group that does M&A in house, but honestly I am not super familiar with placements. They have some interesting splits between NY and SF that I don't fully understand. Know analysts have scored some good gigs out of the group tho and less competitive than others.
6. The rest are smaller but are still solid. FIG is rapidly growing due to senior hires from CS, media is smaller but growing, closed multiple $1b+ deals this year, Power is small, but has killed it this year and is underrated in terms of infra fund placements, Gaming within REGAL is excellent (did draft kings / golden nugget sell side among other large mandates). The reality is that most data on this forum re JEF is quite stale. The growth has been truly explosive across all groups, and it's not just in fees (every bank is growing), it's in market share.
Is there any overlap between the energy group and power group? Ive been seeing they merged the groups calling it energy & power with several heads within the team sitting in Houston. Does that mean houston folks can also get staffed on power/renewables mandates (obviously not as direct exposure as actually being in the PU&I group)? Just wondering as Im about gear up for SA23 recruitment and was genuinely considering staying in Houston given LCOL, comp etc. Would love some info man
On JEF Tech- software is done out of SF, tech enabled services/fintech are split by NY and CLT. As poster above mentioned, M&A modeling in-house, with good financial sponsor deal flow (primarily SF). Can speak for SF that there were several MF interviews and UMM/MF exits this past on-cycle(Clearlake, Onex). Will work you to the bone and the culture is terrible tho. Still a solid group if looking for UMM/MF.
whomst Jefferies analyst has time to write all this on a workday, clearly the hours at Jefferies have been overstated
Were you paid to say this? No shot MF exits are that common
Citi
Shoutout to all my UBS homies, just know you’re loved
Funny that nobody even mentioned UBS. Just Citi and Jeff dudes tossing shit at each other
Honestly prestige doesn’t even matter to me I just want a place that gives me experience and a return offer shit lmao
UBS is trash
Citi has a good brand name but the quality of the groups is VERY uneven as I wrote in other posts
- Strong power and utilities team, huge push to hire big guns for TMT and most specifically in Tech, strong aviation team
- Weak financing groups, be it leveraged finance, project finance or anything else. Simply no underwriting appetite or do anything which is just not flow business - they want to be JPM or DB/CS and just don’t have the DNA / guts for it
Also, sadly, it’s not easy to move across groups and VERY silo’ed so don’t assume it would be easy to place in the group you’re after
Jefferies is a very strong shop - they do complex stuff and are well regarded but I almost always hear they have a horrible culture and you can never leave because of bonus claw-back which perpetually compounds
UBS - I never see them on anything
Citi == Jefferies > UBS. Up to you if you want boutique and probably better experience or the bulge bracket name recognition.
JEFF is a boutique????? Stop smoking crack. Jefferies << Citi. Even UBS has a stronger brand than Jeff outside of finance
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