Just wanted to create a post to gauge the strengths of the different EB's (namely EVR/Moelis/PJT/LAZ/PWP/Centerview/GHL).
What are the best groups at each? Where have you seen the banks trending in terms of market share/ability to win big deals etc?
Also, in terms of pay and exit opps at the analyst level, how do these compare and where have analysts typically went?
I know this might have been done before, but wanted to get updated thoughts as I begin to consider some of the opportunities ahead. Thanks in advance for the insight!
Virtually all have been covered in the past month
1st=>2nd yr Analyst from top target here. Here’s how the EBs from your list are perceived from said target, which is a combination of culture, exits, prestige, etc. the smartest kids (who don’t do buyside) go in this tier order. Tiers not ranked within each other
T1: PJT RSSG, EVR (both), Moelis LA T2: CVP, PJT M&A T3: LAZ, Moelis NY, PWP, GHL
Yes you read Laz correctly. Their perception has shrunk for a while and from what I hear continues to fall. That being said all of T3 are stellar and will land you good opps. Your list is also missing a few well regarded boutiques.
edit: once again, the ranking is based on numerous factors and reflects where the smartest kids decide to go. each tier is a level of consideration. does PWP have the same history and recognition that LAZ has? maybe not. but they'll be looked at the same and the quality of kids are around the same.
Putting LAZ and GHL in the same boat seems a bit off
The quality of kids going there is largely the same.
Quality of PJT M&A and CVP is similar, although I think generally given an offer from both most kids at my target would pick PJT simply because of CVP's three year commitment thing
Guggenheim?
I would say either move PJT M&A to T1 or drop EVR rx to T2.
Based on the exits I’m hearing this year that’d probably make sense, granted both stellar
Disagree on both. PJT M&A doesn't carry anywhere near close the same reputation as RSSG in my top target. Kids there are good but not top tier.
EVR isn't the same situation as PJT as both M&A and RX consistently get looks from top shops. Lots of my younger peers even weigh RX>M&A due to more technical work and optionality into both distress and PE.
PJT M&A doesn’t get looks from top shops? Have you been living under a rock at your “top target” (thx for reminding us)? Latest exits included BX, APO, Carlyle, TPG, CB, and a couple top HFs
Also attended a target but that shouldn’t really matter. Idk why people use that as a line of credibility as if your school gives you distinctly more insight than other non-targets or even other targets.
T1: evr m&a, PJT rx, laz rx, Moelis La T2: evr rx, CVP, PJT m&a, laz m&a T3: PWP, Moelis NY
First, I’m going to put significant weight on firm wide deal flow since that generally tends to increase prestige, lead to better exits and result in worse culture. I would also split Laz in to M&A and RX to give same treatment for EVR and PJT as you did.
Based off that, if you think Evercore RX is really two tiers above LAZ RX, you’re on crack. And if you think PJT M&A is a whole tier better than Laz m&a, you’re still wrong. Laz RX is tier one, I’m not there and I still know they’ve been on a tear. Laz M&A is probably tier 2, lowest pay but makes up for it with strong dealflow and good exits.
You got me good with Greenhill, unranked. As in my greekrank days, Greenhill is upper-mid at best, mixes with good houses but never has and never will break into the top bucket.
Moelis LA is probably the most savage, but analysts there are lights out and it’s in LA so points for originality and spunk.
CVP Is tier one in terms of pay and dealflow. Only thing that relegates them to two is unsupportive exit culture and 3 year analyst program bonus structure. Saw that and was like nope.
If you weighed pay more heavily, then it would prob be PJT, EVR, CVP tier one, but pay really isn’t everything. A lot of bankers don’t go to high finance after their two year stint and Laz still has the best name brand along with EVR outside of finance. An extra 20k a year at CVP means nothing to me if I can’t place at a good PE firm in 3 years and no one outside of finance has heard of this weird regional bank I worked for so they won’t hire me. I can promise you that Lazard doesn’t give two shits if it’s recruiting class is only 90% as talented as it used to be because 95% of those analysts leave the firm after two years anyway.
I don’t know why this got monkey shit ^
All accurate imo. Although Moelis LA is no longer a sweatshop. People rave about the culture there now.
Post reads like a mental meltdown just waiting to happen
I always find these things kind of silly but I'll bite, why not.
Tier 1: PJT RSSG, Laz RX, EVR M&A , HL RX, Centerview M&A Tier 2: PJT M&A, Laz M&A, EVR RX Tier 3: Moelis, PWP, Greenhill
FWIW Lazard bumped up their bonuses by $20k this year. They were 45/55/65/75 and now are 65/75/85/95 (with a 85k base, 10k signing). Which means if you are bottom bucket still make $150k. Something to keep in mind since Lazard isn't the "lowest paying boutique" anymore and now more on par with the other boutiques
I'm sorry but I just disagree with this list. Here's my list based on pay, exits, culture, and prestige (ordered within tiers):
Tier 1: PJT RSSG, EVR M&A (now places into groups, much larger class size), PJT M&A (been killing it this year, small class size, etc), Moelis LA (stellar shop but harder to get to NYC funds)
Tier 2: Centerview M&A (3-year commitment), EVR RX, HL RX.
Tier 3: Laz RX, Laz M&A (been going downhill lately, small deal size), Moelis NY, PWP
Tier 4: Roth (probs tier 1 or 2 in EMEA), HL, Greenhill, anyone I'm forgetting?
I have also based these rankings on the 1H 2019 M&A tables as I find them to be a good indicator of progress and caliber.
^this, thank you
Not sure what the argument for PJT M&A above EVR RX and HL RX (or in tier 1 at all) is here — both groups place lights out into both HFs and MF PE/SS and have class sizes around 10 in NYC. I think most people with any knowledge of RX put EVR and HL right up there with PJT RSSG. Know several people at my top target and others who have chosen RX at these firms over EVR M&A and certainly PJT M&A as well.
Again, I included pay and prestige. RX is a very specialized field which only very few go into. The pay at HL is def not on par with PJT/EVR and neither is their prestige. I must admit I am not too familiar with Evr's Rx practice, so you might have a point, but I def don't hear about it as much as PJT's. It seems like you have a personal vendetta against PJT M&A or something since you seem to cling onto that group and put them down, but a quick search will show you EVR and PJT were the only EBs in the top 10 global advisors list and EVR is about x2.5 larger than PJT. PJT M&A also did AbbVie Allergan and T-Mobile Sprint. I really don't understand your reasoning.
CVP only tech? That’s crazy
Seems as though this comment was SB’ed 20 times in less than an hour — just your typical Thursday night activity spike on WSO
lol watch the "Incoming Investment Banking Summer Analyst at PJT"s pounce
Moelis LA is good, but not tier 1 good. Agree that EVR M&A is tier 1, even with booming class sizes. You are right that PJT M&A has done well this year but (historically) they haven't landed as many mega deals as EVR/Laz/CVP, so not sure if tier 1 is justified. Also you have EVR RX above Laz RX? I question that, Lazard is much more established and wins a lot more mandates.
I don’t have a lot to say here - all of these places are good places to work. You have some forum vendetta against a few firms and others seems to be hyped more than they should
Just to give a data point based on company websites YTD
Guggenheim:
deals: 23Largest deal: 47b
deals above 1bn: 8Centerview
deals: 42Largest deal: 50bn
deals above 1bn: 23Greenhill
deals: 43Largest deal: 25bn
deals above 1bn: 8PWP
deals: 39Largest deal: 8bn
deals above 1bn: 9Moelis
deals: 78Largest deal: 5.1
deals above 1bn: 12Evercore
deals: 111Largest deal: 90 Ben
deals above 1bn: 24Lazard
deals: 175Largest deal: 48bn
deals above 1bn: 53I don’t have number of bankers but based on this I would say the top EB’s are Laz, Evr and CVP as they consistently take business from the BB’s in high volume
Based on deal flow and exposure I think it would be hard to really distinguish between pwp, ghl, Guggenheim and Moelis with Moelis seemingly being on more, but smaller deals and Guggenheim in fewer but more huge mandates.
No numbers from PJT so I will not comment
This is such a dumb comment I can't even respond.
The response to thiscomment is such a fucking dumb comment and I can’t even respond indeed
For analyst exits, it is definitely true that Lazard has lost its standing with respect to PJT and arguably EVC. However, you have to think more holistically than that. Lazard (far more so than any of the other EB's) is cluttered with absurdly powerful people in one way or another. Type of place you walk into the elevator and notice you're sharing a ride with Al Sharpton and Felix Rohatyn. The people at the top have bigger things to worry about than what their analysts who will indefinitely leave after fulfilling two years get paid, exit, experience, etc... This does make for somewhat of a difficult and often insincere environment, but if you realize the incredible presence of the organization you're working for (although will most likely never understand the broader issues Lazard / affiliates work on) it's pretty fascinating. To be less long winded - powerful people respect it immensely. That's not because they used to be a better bank (as some people are mentioning on here), but because they are an organization filled with employees, clients, and advisors with enormous amounts of power. (Tried super hard not to sound like someone with an economic interest in The Last Tycoons and promoting it with cheesy clichés...)
Is it just me, or is this one big dick measuring contest?
Brother, it seems that you are new to this forum
From what I’ve seen, I’d place PWP ahead of Lazard these days. Nearly equal opps, and prestige is growing at PWP while Laz is not nearly what it use to be. Also better pay and culture.