Enlisted, Special Ops Army to IB to PE
Hello all,
I am currently in special operations within the Army and have a year left on my contract. I have been knocking out school online during my time in, at Purdue Global University. I know this is not a very sought after school but I am hoping to leverage my special operations experience to get a foot in the door. I am 24 years old and have multiple combat rotations. When I get out next May I will have about 20 weeks of school left. Meaning I would finish my undergrad around the end of October to November 2021. I was looking into getting a student internship for next summer (2021) and if I don't get that, then finish my degree and try to get a military internship (which I am assuming is also in the summer so I would have to wait from November 2021 to summer 2022 to start.) If I fail at getting that internship then plan C is to go straight into getting my MBA via a J term at a tgt school and go into IB from there. Then do the traditional route of going from IB to PE, but I read its harder to break into PE w/ an MBA than from undergrad. Does this sound like a good course of action? Will special operations experience help me and how do I leverage it? Would I be able to get into PE w/o going into IB first? Any other insight also welcome.
Thank you
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Are you an idiot?
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Special Ops is one of the best work experiences you could have
ok I get it I was misinformed
Not sure wtf the guy above is smoking, but nothing about your plan sounds unreasonable to me. I personally know of a guy that did basically exactly what you’re talking about (college online while in military) and got into Wharton/Columbia/Booth right after being enlisted and he wasn’t special forces.
You can recruit for PE straight out of mba at small shops or do IB first. IB is almost a sure thing out of a top mba but PE is not.
I think mba is your best bet. You might have a tough time getting that first job without it just because they won’t hire you into a post-mba role and you probably don’t want to start as an analyst.
Thank you for your reply. I'm okay starting as an analyst, that being said, starting in a post-MBA role would be best. Do you think doing a J-term which normally skips the internship, or taking some time and waiting until the following August, almost a year, to get the full MBA experience would be better?
You’ll definitely want the internship experience as someone who is transitioning out of the military. I saw you mentioned being concerned about your undergrad below. The guy I was referring to above went to a very similar online school. I wouldn’t worry about it.
I’m also prior enlisted Army btw (not sf). You’ll find that the vets network trumps just about any other network. My response rates from cold emails to vets are near 100% (if not 100..I can’t think of anyone ever not responding but there may be someone I’m forgetting).
I think you have two options:
If you're a ranger, transfer to a elite uni, do 3 years on campus. Recruit for literally any job in finance that you want. You'll be able to land a great internship during your sophomore fall for after your sophomore year; then you can recruit for any bank you want for after Jr. year.
If you're SF (I presume you're not, because said Spec Ops, not SF), finish your degree before you get out, absolutely rock your GMAT (720+), and hire an MBA consultant and go to a T15 MBA. You have the work experience function down - plenty of officers go Service Academy -> Five years obligated service -> Elite MBA. SF gives you a higher probability of that, because there are fewer SF vs. Spec Ops guys.
I suggest going with the first option. You'll be much better for it and there's a higher statistical likelihood that you get on the IB-> PE path coming out of UG than an MBA. Many more accessible, institutional undergraduate target/semi-target pipelines for you at this junction. If you choose the MBA out of the military (with completed degree), you're purposefully shrinking the probability of you landing something great.
The decision between Ranger/SF on path to take is meaningless. Regardless of which one OP is (if he is one of those two) he will be viewed in the exact same way applying to MBA programs or finishing up at a target university.
Source: I was one of the the two Specs jobs listed above and did the opposite you recommend, and know people one the other side who did the same. No impact whatsoever.
You were enlisted and went top-15 MBA straight out of the military? That’s a pretty rare move
Thank you for your service, and props for special ops; you’ll definitely have some amazingly cool stories that other people don’t have that you can talk about in interviews that will make you stand out.
Never say never for anything. If you have in’s and can try to recruit for a summer 2021 internship, a lot of banks want veterans for diversity. That being said, you’re a little short-changed on that opportunity at the moment because most camps have already passed for veterans. These camps are crucial for diversity because you get to network with people who have similar backgrounds. If you have a decent GPA, a decent résumé, and show interest in finance with that résumé,
On the other hand, I’d say that nothing should stop you from recruiting for a 2021 IB internship. You’ll have an extremely strong network by simply reaching out to any former military; the military is like a brotherhood, and if you put something like “Veteran Looking for IB Advice” in your subject line then you’ll probably get a 90%+ response rate no matter what school the bankers went to.
If you can’t get in, and if you’re somehow able to, I’d try to extend graduation and graduate in December 2022. If you’re able to do this, you can then do all of the veteran diversity camps (there are tons of them). This will create a strong network and your name will be saved for recruiting purposes at every bank you do the events for.
You’re correct in saying that it’s harder to recruit directly to PE from B-school. There are skills they want you to learn on the sell side before going to the buy side. If you could do IB first then it’s preferable, but if you are willing to put in a TON of hard work, it’s still possible for you to go straight to PE; it’s just not likely that you’ll end up at a megafund like KKR or Blackstone.
Thank you for your reply. I am fine going into IB first then to PE. How long in IB is normally "required" before going to PE with an MBA? Also, I read they normally want you to work IB then PE then get your MBA. Will having an MBA under my belt hinder my ability to get hired at a megafund?
Anything is possible, but it's typically easiest to do what everyone else does. In the world, creativity and "finding your path" are popular; finance is the one place where you want to be EXACTLY like everyone else, but instead stand out with your results.
So if you're looking for a megafund, the most typical route is top group at a top bank --> megafund --> top MBA --> back into PE. Everyone with a military background will love to talk to you; also, Blackstone is a megafund that prides itself on diversity, so it would be worth it to really put in a big effort there when you're recruiting. I also know that KKR has their own initiative, but most banks and funds have veteran initiatives and you'll have to do more digging yourself.
That's my 2 cents. Everyone on Wall Street knows that the buy side wants you to have the skills you gain on the sell-side. You learn a lot from 2 years of hell that you can really take anywhere you go. That being said, again, this is the most typical route; you'll have a relatively straight shot if you do this. That doesn't mean it's not possible that you find some MD veteran at a megafund who would pull for you (I found 2 at KKR by searching for a total of 5 mins). Both of those guys went sell-side --> buy-side though (one at Nomura, the other at JPM) so I would definitely recommend the traditional route.
+1 to Anon above. I've seen people network in from bottom bucket non-target schools because of the military background. Don't feel like you need an MBA right away. You're probably a shoe-in for a top 15 with a high GMAT and Special Forces exp but you shouldn't feel obligated to do that when you can network with ex-military.
Thank you for your reply. My only concern with that is my undergrad being from Purdue Global University. Not a very reputable degree to have, I feel even though I may have the experience that I do, this might hinder my ability to get into IB at a top firm.
A number of banks have specific military recruiting: MS: https://www.morganstanley.com/people/experienced-professionals/veterans
GS: https://www.goldmansachs.com/careers/professionals/veterans-integration…
JPM: https://www.jpmorgan.com/global/about/veterans
WF: https://www.wellsfargojobs.com/veteran-employment-transition-program
Article/Interview on someone who has made that move: https://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/military-to-investment-banking/
Also would suggest networking with other military members at MBAs/in IB now on LinkedIn. Either from your school or branch. Safe travels.
Reach out to "@trades_and_raids" on instagram. Yes, I'm being serious even though I just recommended a meme account.
He legit helps veterans network and help them land roles in high finance as he is a veteran himself (possible spec ops/SF background) and works in finance. I've communicated with him through DM's and he legit cares about helping other veterans and will exhaust his network of former veterans who now work in finance.
I highly recommend shooting him a message with your story. He will probably be able to help you out more than undergrads on WSO.
Thank you, I will shoot him a message.
You could finish up that year at any undergrad program in NYC like Fordham( because they pay the full yellow ribbon amount) and then recruit for any T15 MBA. The GI Bill is for 36 Months, you could use that first year to establish your footing and build your network. A lot of PE firms and IB companies recruit veterans. Talk to https://instagram.com/sitreps_to_steercos?igshid=18l83acugw9er if you want some advice on M7 recruiting for your MBA.
I will dm him to let him know your heading his way.
Thank you, I will send him a message. The problem with finishing up my undergrad at a different school is most only take up to 60 credits, and/or require 2 years residency at that school. So, I would be giving up a lot of credits. That being said I have been seriously considering this option even though it will put me back a couple of years.
Special ops looks good man. I can't think of anything that spells "able to function under pressure", "drive", "hardworking", and "leadership" much better at this stage of your life. I once worked with a guy who joined our of 24th STS with relative ease.
thank you for your service.
I would recommend reading some threads from cphbravo96 and M. Blank
if you change your mind and want to go to PWM, military/special ops work ethic is exactly what helps you excel in this. I will be glad to help you.
Thank you for your reply. I will look at both of those users threads. I am open to exploring PWM. I have had my eye on IB for sometime, but am open to exploring other options within finance that relate to IB.
Also sign up for the ACP program, it helped me get mentors who not only work in high finance, but also hold a high leadership position.
First, thank you very much for your service. What you do is of critical importance and greatly appreciated.
Second: you have achieved a lot. What you have done professionally speaks volumes. And Purdue is a fine school. Anyone who does not get that isn't worth working for. Have confidence. It's excellent to have a plan B and C, but instead of simply setting alternative plans figure out how to hone your skills so that you do not fail in the internship / applications. Focus on getting the content down, and be confident.
Thrid: I would dis-recommend a J-term start. I know INSEAD and Columbia have them. Hwoever there is value in having more time at school and leveraging the summer internships to get jobs. More schools have December starts thanJ terms. An extra six months to do a pre-MBA internsip, travel and pre-start studying won't kill you. In hindsight I dearly wish I had taken a bunch of accounting classes and practicing my financial modeling before starting my own MBA. It would have put me on better footing. TLDR: This is a marathon. 6 months won't kill you and you have more options with a normal fall intake.
Thank you for your reply. This is very helpful. As for practicing financial modeling, how would you suggest going about doing this, outside of an internship? I want to understand as much as I can going into an internship, so that I can pick up the finer details and help myself get a full time offer.
Should be able to find YouTube videos and Excel templates online. There are also online financial modeling courses, ranging from pretty cheap to hundreds of dollars. You can also Google “Damodaran” and look at some of his stuff — he’s a professor at NYU and puts out a lot of online content.
There are several providers of online training in financial modeling. WSO reviews some of them. A Simple Model is a provider that costs $3/month. There's also Wall Street Prep and Breaking in to Wall Street. There's also a lot of Youtube videos on finance broadly. Also Wharton put their core classes online - I believe on Coursera, but you'll have to Google it. They have their basic accounting, finance and other classes online for free in their entirety. Just the above will take you a few months to do properly, if you treat them as proper full tine courses. You can just curl up with your laptop and work through all of the above.
ZZYZX
Hello, From what I have gathered, if you plan on finishing up your degree at a school like Columbia they most likely will not take any online credits. Speaking for Columbia, as I have recently talked with a rep from them, the only classes that transfer are similar to ones that they offer. My advise would be to reach out to schools that your interested in and see if they would take any credits. Also would reach out Service-to-School as they work with a lot of top school and have a plethora of information regarding programs for vets, and may be able to help bridge any gaps that might come up. Feel free to message me with any questions as I have been gathering a lot of information regarding veterans and schooling the last year or so.
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