Fucked up recruitment and low self-esteem
I'm gonna graduate from a top target this summer (Wharton / Harvard / Stanford), however I had bad grades when I applied for my SA (2.9/3.0 GPA) and fucked up the remaining top interviews I had despite my low grades. So I only ended up with a SA (and converted FT) at a major MM Bank (RBC/Wells Fargo/Jeff's). Now I managed to get my grades back up and might even graduate with a 3.5!
But I didn't apply for Analyst at a BB/EB as I thought I had no chance. Tbh I feel quite depressed that I don't have a BB/EB offer like some of my friends.
Now I'm wondering how to lateral to a EB/BB. My analyst stint is only 2 years, does it make sense to transfer after one year or should I wait until I get my associate promotion?
Bro you fucked up THAT hard and STILL managed to land an IB role that many people with better grades at a slightly worse school would kill to have. I'd count my blessings and try to lateral after a year. Nobody cares that much about your gpa after your first job.
Not gonna lie, my first year was horrible. My freshman year was dominated by my long distance relationship from HS, then I was depressed for 2 weeks cause it didn't work out. And then my focus was getting high and laid. At one point I realized that I still need a career. And then improved my grades in Senior year. So yeah that was my college experience haha
I know countless students that could blow all you target kids out of the water with all that they have done to break in. We grind our asses off and dedicate our college years to breaking in only to get shit on within the first 10 minutes of being interviewed for the simple reason we did not go to a better school. And YET... YET you choose to complain about how goood you have it. Nah. Fuck you guys and grow a pair because it is obvious not getting your dream job is the first time you have faced hardship in your life.
Why would you feel the need to go and shit on him/her? You don’t know the full story, just like we don’t know the full story about you.
Frankly, if you are upset that you needed to hustle so hard in college why didn’t you just hustle in high school and get into a better school in the first place instead of putting yourself in a no name non target? And why are you complaining about working hard? YOU SHOULD BE, YOU WENT TO A NO NAME SCHOOL.
See how my generalization is unfair to you as well? Kindness is a two way street. Just as you “nontargets” want respect from “targets”, you should have the dignity and courtesy to show it back. If you were in the other student’s shoes you may very well feel the same way. You don’t know, no one does.
Every pompous little shit that upvoted your comment should be ashamed. You have no grounds to judge others. Especially since the op’s comment never judged you.
Grow a fuckin pair and realize that your lack of empathy and that your angst regarding your decision to “hustle” as you put it just makes you look extremely naive and idiotic.
The comment below is right; I know that it wasn't your intention, but your comment is hypocrite. Following your logic, no one in America could ever complain about anything because they have had a privileged life compared to a kid that was born in Zimbabwe.
I disagree though. OP worked hard to break into a top target school at the first place. Shouldn’t discredit him for that
yous a bitch.
a
Totally agree. People on Campus are talking about why GHL sucks, and I just leave the room haha
You're making the same amount as all your peers after college, no matter where they ended up. That's how you justify it
you guys are straight up pussies
hahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahah
Lol really? There are people out there graduating with no offers or that did not make it to IB at all. If your situation worries you what are you going to do if life really hits you hard?
You are in a good spot, got an offer and showed that you can put the work in to get your grades up, just keep going.
Guys, seriously look at how the economy is doing and where the latest unemployment numbers are at, then reflect on how shitty your 150k per year job at 22 is.
Do MMs make that kind of money as well?
I'm the OP. My friend with BB offer has the same fixed salary.
Yep - actual comp from a MM (years ago, so #s have moved up recently):
A1: 85 base + 50 bonus + 10 signing A2: 90 base + 80 bonus A3: 95 base + 110 bonus
This is surely Wells. No way you are beating yourself up about a great shop like Jefferies and RBC is a NA BB at this point. Plus both of those banks have plenty of kids from Wharton/Harvard that you listed. Unless you got placed in Charlotte, it won't be hard to lateral from Wells after a year just have a good reason why when asked. If it's not Wells, you need to either scroll through linkedin or take a look at the league tables and have a reality check on where you landed.
NYC
What's wrong with Wells in Charlotte?
Mostly just exit ops. They still have their fair share of high quality placements, it's just much harder (not impossible, though!) to get looks from the bigger guys out in NY for PE/HF/etc.
Mate, what the hell are you complaining about?
Take a bit of perspective here. There are thousands upon thousands that would kill to be in your position. That's not to say you shouldn't want more or aim higher, but rather to not be so hard on yourself. A bit disappointed? Sure, you can feel that; channel it to improve in the future. Low self-esteem? Absolutely not. Cut that shit out.
Grow a damn sack buddy. do yourself a favor at some point and visit a third world country to gain some perspective.
Completely agree
I hope this is some sort of meme. It proves how horrible the status and target thing is in practice. The amount of shit I’ve had to do just to land interviews at what you call a “tier 3” just because I didn’t have the money to go to a better school. Not too butthurt because I grinded and it’s gonna work out for me, but dear Christ is this a pathetic fucking post... Count your blessings, you definitely do NOT deserve where you’re at, just be thankful.
Agree with the overall sentiment, but I fucking hate people who just use money as a justification for not getting into a target. If your parents make less than $150,000, (that is, the 85th PERCENTILE of earners in America), it's a full ride at Harvard. Princeton is $140,000. Stanford is $130,000.
The rest of the Ivy League is similar. If you didn't go to a target and still broke in, I respect that, but the reason you didn't go was because YOU didn't get into a good enough school, because all the top schools have huge endowments with enormous aid packages.
I come from a low income family, and it would have been far cheaper to attend an Ivy compared to my state school. Unfortunately, I didn't get in, but if I got in you bet your ass I would've gone. My friends at top targets are all paying much less than I am.
I am, hence why I broke in, but I have a rare situation with my parents' income. Cannot explain over internet, but know that my FAFSA got fucked up right before college and the income metrics got distorted. Colleges boil everything down to one singular number; your FAFSA number. I'll be fine and so will you, but trust me, the real problem here are fuckheads who spend their 4 years drinking and smoking and get in with 1/4 the effort just because their dad pulled. Not mad about it, in 25 years that will probably be my kid. The reason I grind so hard is because I KNOW little Hunter over here has a dad with more pull on the Street than God; I just have to work harder. In the end the odds even out, fear not...
I’m a white male, attending a decent semi-target (had no idea what banking was when I got into college), and I’ve always struggled to figure everything out for myself. Neither of my parents even graduated high school, my parents divorced when I was in high school, I didn’t have anyone to help or motivate me when I got a C in my high school geometry class. Nobody cared if I went to college, nobody pushed me to study, so I rolled out of bed to take the ACT one day and scored well enough to get into a decent school, not really understanding how important a top school would’ve been. I went to a religious university because I joined a Christian church in high school and decided I would have a better chance to succeed if I went to a school with people who had the same values, not because I knew what opportunities I’d have after graduating. After I graduated HS and struggled through college for a couple of years, I spoke to a buddy who is now interning at a top BB, and he told me about banking. My GPA is a 3.7+, I’ve had to teach myself precalc to catch up for when I’m in more advanced math classes just to understand what goes on in my finance classes. You can say whatever you want along the lines of “take your responsibility for your situation”, but some people legitimately don’t have the opportunities that you’ve had, bud. It’s hard to know that “Harvard gives a full ride” when you don’t understand what 1 credit means in a class schedule or what a “liberal arts” college is. Some people really can’t just “try harder in high school” because their situations don’t set them up to do so.
If I could go back and do better in high school, score better on the ACT/SAT, and apply for top schools + scholarships, I would. But to simply say that people “should’ve tried harder” is insensitive and arrogant, and that elitism is what discourages a lot of people from trying to break in. Nobody should feel discouraged about trying to change their future, and you’re a douche if you go around telling people they should’ve tried harder
Except for the small fact that going to a private high school is almost necessary to get into a top school. Sure it’s not everyone but check the privilege daddy gave you kid.
I like reading threads like this. It confirms how out of touch some people are with how 99% of average Americans live. And just think - we’re one of the richest countries in the world and even our bottom quartile has it better than most top quartiles. You yuppies are soft.
I'm sorry you got a job most college students would die for. If you are really depressed about not working at a BB you are going to have a limp dick for the rest of your life. Get some perspective and stop being a bitch. Also do us all a favor and never post on this site again.
people are being kinda harsh to you my guy. you turned things around and some how landed a good offer so I would for sure count your blessings on even securing an offer at all.
with that being said, it is important to want to improve and get to a better spot so my advice to you is to just lateral after a year. it will require you to adopt a workhorse mindset given that you’re not gonna have an easy time with buyside recruiting and such while not being at a good BB, but you will have the opportunity to lateral if you crush it and be a good analyst in your group.
just because you didn’t get a job at Goldman out of undergrad doesn’t mean you won’t be successful in life. everyone has their own path and eventually we all end up where we’re meant to be (as a function of luck and hard work).
4.0 non targets with leadership experience and boutique IB internships are punching the air right now.
Dude... I really hope this is a troll. If not, you're the equivalent of a kid who complains that daddy bought them an Audi for their birthday instead of a Ferrari, and I bet every kid from a non-target reading this who busted their ass for years and were at the top of their colleges without ever landing a single interview, wants to punch you in the face.
There's nothing you won't learn from "a major MM" that you would at a BB / EB. There's nothing you can't do from that same MM firm that you could do at a BB / EB. "Not enough recruitment into PE" isn't even a fucking excuse if you decide to pull that card. If you're as good as you say you are, having claimed your Associate promotion before you've even worked a day as a FT Analyst, then grow a set, hustle, and recruit for whatever fucking post-IB position you want. There's people from Wells Fargo at Bain Capital and there's people from Jefferies at KKR.
The only reason you want to go to a BB / EB is because you're insecure that your job isn't as prestigious as your friends'. Kids like you are the reason students from top colleges get a bad rep; they scream entitlement from the top of the socioeconomic mountain they stand on. Kids like you are a large reason this industry just blows in general.
Fuck man, go live in Haiti for a week
So if you worked very hard during high school and aimed to attend Wharton or Havard, but ended up in top 20, do you have the right to be upset about it? Just because somebody else might be attending a top 30 instead , you shouldn’t be upset, Otherwise that’s entitlement as well
Eric?
Brother, please don't start mind fucking yourself before you start. People can smell a piker who doesn't want to be there and would rather be at a BB from a mile away.
Here's what you need to do: you need to be humble, put your head down, and grind. Work at being the best damn analyst that ever walked into that firm, bar none. Use your summer to practice modeling and honing your quant skills to a razor's edge even before you get into the bank. Get really competent before you step into the analyst training program. Then be the humble dude that works hard and that others can count on. And finish out your full 2 year stint. Don't go "bigger-better-dealing" the firm at your first opportunity. You signed up for a 2 year tour. Finish it strong the whole way. At that point if you've done the above hard work and built a good reputation and relationships, then you can either lateral, move up A2A, or go to b-school.
Finally, as you can see from the comments above you're not doing yourself any favors. No one is going to sympathize - - because I don't think you understand how good you have it. MANY good people at top schools still fall through the cracks. You have classmates that won't get a job for months after graduation because of this Covid black swan event. You my man had a mediocre GPA and got a cracker of an offer at a decent bank. It may not be your wet dream, but it's pretty damn good. You're going to have classmates unemployed/under-employed. Eg. I graduated with high honors (top 2% overall GPA out of a class of thousands, dean's list and honor roll single every semester, scholarships) from America's #1 public university, but couldn't land a job for months, and when I did it paid much less than yours will. Many of my classmates were in similar boats, and when the economy collapsed people were glad for any paycheck. Be humble man. Be grateful. You've got a great thing going, and you should live it up and enjoy it, and above all else work hard to prove that you deserve respect. Never, ever, ever slack.
So what's the probability that this is a troll post? I mean, it humblebrags about schools and getting an associate role, asks for sympathy for screwing up because a long distance gf relationship didn't work out Freshman year (like 99% of HS relationships), and then looks down at anyone not taking on major debt to go to a target as a 'non-hacker'/slacker.
Bruh not everything is a troll post. Some people are just idiots.
RBC / Wells / Jeffs is "fucked up recruitment"
Jeez bro.
You're fine. Just focus on doing well at work.
2.9 GPA at top target? Boo fucking hoo. If your parents weren't in the top 5% of income, I guaran fucking tee you wouldn't be at your target school in the first place. You didn't deserve to get into your target school, you didn't deserve to get into banking, but at the end of the day you'll still be fine. You lucky bastard.
I agree that OP's post is from an entitled perspective, but that doesn't mean OP doesn't deserve what they have. Target schools are hard to get into, even in the top wealth bracket. Yes, it's comparatively easy when you have lots of opportunities handed to you, but it's still an uphill battle for everyone.
OP is several standard deviations above the mean “for what he deserves” and has been incredibly lucky in life. A 2.9 GPA means you’re lazy and/or weak. Since OP is at a top target school, with a sub 7% acceptance rate, his spot went to someone who was lazy and entitled while dozens of people, including people from much less privileged backgrounds, got rejected even though they could’ve gotten a 4.0 in his shoes. OP needs to get his shit together and stop being a little bitch about it.
You're fine. These differences between EB and MM feel like they mean a lot in the bubble of school or WSO. In the grand scheme, you're still at a firm that's considered very much in the mainstream of IB (especially if its JEF or RBC).
Don't focus your energy on transferring. An EB is a little better but hardly a life changing difference. You want to focus your energy on performing well on the job, which will have the biggest impact on your future placement whether that's PE or transferring later. Your overall marketability career-wise will be highly correlated to how much you learn on the job and how well you perform.
You got the SA spot and converted to FT in the career that you wanted. Shut the fuck up and be happy that you have a job.
...ungrateful little shit...
Those banks are good. Don't be a dick.
How did you get into Wells with a 2.9? Thought the bar was higher...
Why did I get inaccurate for this? What solid MM would take a candidate with a high C average?
All you non-target "hustlers" need to shut the fuck up. Stop bragging about the fact that you sent out some cold emails to get a job, and stop belittling OP for a genuine question. Nobody gives a flying fuck if you faced hardship to get a job. Give yourself a pat on the back and now go prove that you deserve that job more than target kids.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
I know pressure to go into BB IBD is higher at top schools, so you may feel inadequate sometimes. Just have a little bit more faith in yourself, you seem to have turned things around for yourself. Your career path does not need to match everyone else's. And I've heard it isn't too hard transferring from MM to BB as long as you build your network and prove yourself, don't bank on your ivy league education pushing you to the top. Once you're out of college and the 'typical' competitive environment, you'll realize that the offer you have is quite solid and you did pretty well. Hang in there!
hey op and other replies,
it’s all about perspectives...if op feels like this was a failure to him and affects him a lot, then it is what it is. Everyone’s perception of failure is different and how it affects them is up to them.
Constructively speaking however, stop being a giant pussy and dwelling on where you ended up and just focus on where you want to be.
Look into why others did better and learn from them.
Where is the line at which point you become whiney and out of touch?
Is a 30k/yr fast food manager whiney bc he can afford to eat while some third world farmer cant? Is a 90k/yr middle manager complaining bc FAFSA gave shitty aid and he's dipping into his savings while someone on food stamps can't get a job? What about 150k? 300k? 1m? 10m?
Do we just take a poll and agree where "whiney" begins? LOL. OP i completely get it, I got an MM pe job and was utterly devastated and felt I deserved MF. F the haters
Not sure what the commotion is about
Wells is a lower tier BB on par with UBS/RBC...
there there, you will be fine
Sounds like some baby back bullshit to me.
Probably lateral after one year, but there's no right answer. Your group might be a really good fit and provide a lot of opportunity.
Remember that your career will be long, and no one will care much about the brand of that place you worked for 2 years (20 years ago), whereas the learning will snowball and pay dividends throughout your career.
Focus on making the most out of your current opportunity.
Personally, I think it's good that you had some fun in school. Many of the kids with higher GPAs will feel like they missed out and go back to B school to make friends / meet spouses. You may have already checked some of these boxes....
lmfao muh "depression" cus i go to a ivy league and work in IB go cry and get ur validation somewhere else u girl
But not at the bank he wants to?
are we really using girl as an insult? come on now.
Bro wtf like this might be mean but what the actual fuck. You have an offer that kids in my school would kill for. I’m sorry but your acting entitled as hell. There are people who have worked their balls off to get to where u are and I don’t see them complaining.
I’m sure you have worked hard to. Look at the bright side
Kill for working at WF?
so this is what Ivy League kids get butthurt over lmao
You can only try to make the best of your situation. Remember your career is a long game and this is one small part. Focus on learning and making friends. Go the extra mile [and all those other buzz words]
As a non-target that broke into a top BB, I literally have 0 sympathy for you. You didn’t take advantage of your opportunity. Just accept it and work hard with what you have.
Get over yourself. You have no idea what I (and every other non-target kid) had to go through to end up at the same bank (RBC/WF/JEFF) as you. Maybe I'm not as talented as you are or maybe I didn't do quite as well as you in high school, but I promise you this: show up at the office with this same attitude and I will eat you for breakfast. Looking forward to seeing you whenever we finally hit a desk.
You really can't be upset, since you know and admit that you weren't up to par with the top places. The best thing you can do is make the most out of whatever situation you're in. If you want more out of this career in terms of prestige, compensation, whatever, just figure out what you can do next to get there and go get it done. Lateraling after a year is a solid move imo.
To the other posters comparing Non-Target/Target backgrounds and socioeconomic inequality in the industry, get tf over it. Life is unfair. There're kids in 3rd world countries that can't fathom the idea of working in a well paying job in NYC at the age of 22. You can always find a comparison to make one's problems and situation very insignificant. The best we can do is work towards being our best selves with what we're given. Your career and personal growth are a marathon, not a sprint. Yes, it's helpful to be better positioned when you're young, but it's not the end of the world if you aren't! I think one of the best things I've learned is to find people who have been in your shoes and gotten to where you want to be. Ask them for guidance on how to get there, then execute, ignore the haters.
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