Guggenheim RX vs. JPM (Any group) vs. UBS (Global Banking) vs. Ares Management Alternative Credit
Which is better in terms of culture, pay, and exit ops? Positions are all in NYC. Thanks!
Background: Non-target in NYC but with solid internship experiences and networked tons to get these offers.
Personally, I found myself more interested in RX and Lev Fin, but credit in Ares seems like a good option to skip the 1-2 years of banking. On top of that, I'd like to apply for top MBA down the road and not sure how Ares would position me for that. Having a hard time comparing the SA positions and would appreciate any insights or suggestions.
Bump
you need to figure out what you want. in this diverse of a selection you need to have preference because that makes the decision easy through filters.
do your research and break it down by what you prize- you didn’t even care to mention what you want/prioritize which is slightly annoying other than being from a non target (which implies something and you don’t even mention what that means to you- you just want people to just dump you any and all info which is lazy and annoying)
“from a non target” JPM > UBS > Gugg > Ares for non Wall Street finance roles. Seen a lot of Corp finance roles with ex-ubs nyc bankers like Uber I think. For post banking finance roles the names are all good but JPM~RX in terms of where you’re recruiting and what it’s for, but a good group at JPM is probably better than Gugg even if it’s RX (they’re a great group but JPM has some favorability in general) and RX is better if you want to do RX. Tbh I’d equalize JPM/RX because the difference is preference into RX for post banking high finance roles.
Ares is a great company / brand but I can’t comment on credit. I know someone going there that’s smart but a bit bookish (someone id think could get most banking roles) so take that how you will. wouldn’t recommend for a non target if you want maneuverability into Corp dev MBA or normal PE because it’s less orthodox on top of being at a non target.
UBS gets a bad rap around here but I don’t need to go into the details because someone else will, but you should immediately remove this because JPM is better.
I’d go between JPM and Gugg Rx (if you don’t want to do RX why’d you recruit for it / how did u get the job without demonstrating that interest?) unless you want to do an investing role out of UG instead of branding yourself for 2 years and taking a similar role after (easy with rx exposure). Especially for career prospects over the long run, mba , etc.
anyway, describe what you personally want in more detail. your offers are weird because they’re so different you need to decide what you personally prize and what you want which actually makes your decision easy when you figure out what you want. BB, boutique, m&a, RX, investing role, culture, return rate/ promotion opps, etc. make your decision based on those factors to filter from (pretty straightforward tbh because they’re so different you should list what you prize in order and take which is best based on that order). Take Gugg over Ares to overcome some non target vibes you are giving off, and that role is probably harder to get than Ares (?) so it pre qualifies you better in the same way choosing to go to a state school when you got into an Ivy means you should put down your standardized test scores when recruiting.
Thanks for the detailed overview, @NotSarcastic." Should've mentioned my personal goal on the forum, but I'll just answer it here. I tend to prefer the private debt space's work-life balance + (50-60 hours with decent comps comparable to banking.）
However, coming from a non-target, I think my chance for MF PE even from JPM will be slimmer compared to kids from a target school.
You brought up a good point about MBA, curious about why you think Ares would put me at a disadvantage for top MBA? As I've seen people exit from JPM Lev Fin to Ares Direct Lending.
Also, how would you rank the offers for long term comps, assuming realistic exits into buy-side from a non-target school with a 3.9 GPA? Thanks.
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As NotSarcastic mentioned, UBS gets a bad rap on this forum from prospects/interns who don't know any better. There's a few really good groups at UBS, but even their best groups see worse exits than the same groups at JPM. I think Rx is cool, and personally, I'd choose GG Rx because I feel there's going to be good dealflow in the space for the next few years. However, JPM definitely is the safe option, with a lot of really solid groups. Can't speak to Ares - don't have any friends there.
Thanks and I agree that UBS is still respectable as I've seen a few people made the moves from JPM and BAML to UBS.
Yeah, I'm having a hard time deciding between JPM and GG RX as the later one would definitely have solid dealflows within the next few years with major distressed companies. Especially given that JPM group replacement is still unclear to me and there's risk of getting into a less solid or desired group. What's your view on JPM vs. GG RX for top MBA down the road?
Not super knowledgable on that so I'd defer to others, but I've heard from some alumni that having that name brand (J.P. Morgan) would help for MBA more than a smaller, less-known shop (outside of the finance world) like GG, Greenhill, etc. I'm sure it's only a small advantage, though.
Don't really have ay helpful input as a prospect but I'm just curious as to how you got a JPM offer? I thought they recruited later in the summer.
BUMP
Would take JPM over the rest unless you have a specific interest in restructuring. Also UBS is decent but doesn't compare to the other two IB options. How do you have a JPM offer so early?
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LoL okay
Pretty sure OP is diversity. I just did my online tests for UBS this week lol.
Yep, you got it.
Which groups fall under GB? The app was pretty vague
People here haven't really mentioned that Ares is one of, if not the best direct lending / credit platforms in the world. Their PE arm was really built on the back of their successful private credit strategies and they made their name in direct lending. If you're interested in the space like you mention, there is no better place to be than Ares, and you can see some of the best kids in the levfin banking groups exit to Ares Alternative Credit every year. There's no guarantee that you'll have an offer at Ares after a banking stint at JPM or Guggenheim. If you didn't really know what you wanted or what types of investing interested you, I would wholeheartedly suggest you take the banking stint at JPM to figure it out, but considering you seem set on private credit, I can't see any reason to not take the best offer in the field there is and run with it, spending your two analyst years avoiding banking hours and learning directly relevant skills for the career you want.
Thanks for pointing that out. That’s exactly why I was inclining to Ares. Non-target background might put me at a disadvantage for exiting into MF.
What’s your view on Ares vs. JPM/GG RX for top MBA in the US?
If you’re going to Ares, I don’t think it’s right to go in with the mindset of trying to exit to a MF. But hey, who knows, I’m only an intern...I’m sure more senior people can chime in
Ares >= JPM >>>> Guggenheim >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> UBS
LOL " >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "
Is your answer meant for MBA or a general ranking?
Just FYI, private credit is posed to perform extremely well over the next couple of years. Very interesting space and Ares’s arm is fantastic. Was listening in on an alternatives forum and CVC was extremely excited about opportunities.
BUMP curious on how's Guggenheim RX exits.
Can't believe some people are choosing UBS over Guggenheim/Ares...ridiculous.
Yeah just reading over some comments and want to highlight some stuff.
Tbh, I actually have no real clue over MBA process/what people prize. Some points I was alluding to / considering was overall brand name / size in terms of willingness to write recommendations if you get to work with seniors much easier or closely. But I'm gonna excuse myself from that convo without a solid answer to give you because I don't know how good Ares credit really is viewed/ percieved.
I'm sure Ares credit -> MF is possible and has happened but again I have no idea. I just know they're actually a very good shop. I really do understand your struggle because you obviously like credit/etc roles and lifestyle but also want the best for yourself/getting to a MF or something. I'm not sure what Ares lifestyle is though but on the PE side they are not easy. If Ares credit is a lot of work, I'd wonder if working a decent bit more for a definite shot at MF exits are worth it for you. Definitely a tough, tough decision.
The same logic about being in interested in Rx applies to credit e.g. if this is what you wanna do then do it. Try and find a numerical aspect to this stuff e.g. I have to work 30 hours a week more at Gugg but I can exit to a SSG group x% easier- is that tradeoff worth it? either way congrats and it's not exactly a "safe choice" to choose banking over ares credit because they are definitely a good shop. I'm just not too sure about the credit space and I'd suggest you make another post about how ares credit exists or something to really get to the bottom of it.
Thanks @NotSarcastic" Appreciate your insights.
Not really in this area, but from someone outside of these areas Ares would seem like an absolute no brainier here. Not sure why you wouldn't take that one.
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