How has IB changed you?

Could you pm me? Sorry to hear about the impact of the job but would also like to learn a bit more about what it's like especially since you started not too long ago.

Been in the industry for 9 months and the one thing that really strikes me is how my working hours scale has completely changed.

When I happen to finish earlier than midnight (not that it does that often but It happens) I feel sort of bad/weird/anxious about finishing what is considered early in this industry.

It is a weird feeling as if finishing at that time wasn’t legitimate or simply does not feel normal anymore.

Anxiety is crazy in this job. Teams notification sound literally makes my heart skip a beat (in a bad way) and slight panicky.

Some ppl say you will either put on unhealthy weight or lose unhealthy weight going into IB, I am the latter.

Constant anxiety, weight loss, pre-hypertension, constant lack of sleep, complete inability to engage in hobbies I was once passionate about, general unhappiness - but hey I get to say I’m an INVESTMENT BANKER :)

I left IBD a long time ago (I am in PE/VC after many years of BB work), but I think this sums it up

- less time for hobbies and dropped many interests years ago

- less time for family members and their issues, inclusive of parents

- I have never met some of my family members

- I was engaged several times but never made it to church (due to lack of time)

- no family on my own, no kids, no cats

These answers are depressing. 

No energy for anything outside of work. Even if I have a Sunday where I can manage to do something I enjoy I feel way too mentally exhausted to do anything other than stay home which = weight gain = weakening friendships. Leaving post bonus and have a month off before my next gig so hoping to find myself again then.

In the thick of it, it made me more easily physically sick and out of shape and mentally in a heightened survival mode.

After leaving, it did help grow a thicker skin and more able to deflect unnecessary rude comments. My mistake however was joining a private equity firm, which is now well established most PE shops are "Banking 2.0" in terms of workload and culture. I see myself slipping into how I felt while in banking, but am currently more strong willed to not let it impact me. I haven't necessarily been successful at it so considering more niche opportunities in and out of finance.  

Answering from the perspective of post-IB: When I left I had a tough time adjusting to what would be considered a normal work environment.  It took a while to shake behavior like immediately prioritizing the latest email, expecting others to respond instantly, sending emails late at night, and generally getting anxious about every task that came my way.

I remember being so taken back about asking someone for XYZ report on a Thursday and getting a "yes, no problem.  I will send you something next week" response.  A related point was an increased consideration of others in the organization.  Meaning, if I'm working late or catching up on the weekend, I'm not going to blast out emails or reach out to anyone.  Many of the people in our company (and the real world) did not sign up to be accosted by an ex-banker with a skewed sense of priority.  Recalibrating my understanding of urgency and expectation for others was difficult but I've started to get in a groove with that.

Another consequence of banking, for better or worse, is hyper-attention to the formatting of any deliverable.  I would ultimately consider this a positive, as these are good habits, but I've tried to spend less time and energy obsessing over shading, borders, and alignment.  Particularly with one-off internal deliverables, I realized I can save a ton of time by just focusing on the relevant information and less so the aesthetic.

It's been a weird trajectory with major changes through IB, but I'm finally regressing to be a more regular and non-neurotic person:

From college to IB:

• Stress levels and anxiety through the roof. I used to be pretty fucking care-free and happy all the time; during my 2nd year in IB I was barely smiling on the weekdays
• Unreasonably high expectations for myself and those around me. Neurotically checking why numbers have moved by $0.01M on financials so I can explain to my Associate (or fix a bust)
• Losing touch with non-finance friends; the only people I could hang out with consistently had a similar schedule/situations, and I basically stopped planning fun activities altogether
• Unreasonable sense of superiority over others / focus on "prestige"; being stuck in a bubble full of privileged people makes it very easy to devolve into condescending conversations about "regular corporate jobs" to an unhealthy level. Couple that with bonus season blowing money on shoes and watches because you've never had a chance to spend money otherwise, and it becomes a vicious cycle.

After IB / into PE

• Adopting 80/20 rule about what work things should matter / be prioritized. I don't give a flying fuck if my numbers are off by 0.5% or whatever, it's not material. Same goes for formatting, non-urgent tasks, etc. I stop responding to emails past 7pm unless it's for something live / important, and I can start trusting myself to judge what's important (and I'm usually right).
• Much more sympathy towards others, especially from the PortCo experience. Some VPs still dick down the management team and ask for ad hoc analyses to be completed by the next day, but I'm always trying to give people at least 2-3 days of lead time, because they have a whole ass actual job. It's to the point where they start excluding the annoying VPs from emails and I just manage stuff directly because I'm not an asshole
• I've stopped being a slave to seniors in the way that I was in banking. These are honestly just regular people, and they're likely no "smarter" than the average Analyst / Associate. Experienced, sure, but I won't hesitate to call out (nicely) something that doesn't make sense or that I disagree with

I definitely don't think a lot of people come down to earth after IB, and a lot of those folks end up being the neurotic PE VP that makes everyone's life a living nightmare. But once it sinks in how bullshit the job really is, it ironically becomes easier to interact and function as a more normal person.

Things I have noticed:

-trouble relating to friends / having things in common because work takes up a lot of my time and people don’t always understand why I don’t want to go out

-this is likely covid / wfh related as well but just generally less social

-used to love to go out now I would rather get rest and relax on weekends

-not in as good of shape but I also haven’t made the time in the last 3 months. I wouldn’t say banking made it impossible to workout but banking made it impossible to workout at a consistent time daily.

-less of a life routine given day is oriented around working

-more respectful of time and have a greater value towards time

-sometimes after working all day I have a really hard time communicating with people more than likey because I want to be left alone and fuck off

-this one is kind of ass: but more stress has equaled to less sex drive. Still horny (although less horny than before) but more inclined to whack vs fuck hahahaha

-wake up in middle of night to check phone to make sure I am not getting fucked by work obligations

-sleeping almost all day on saturdays lol

-generally lazier / less ambitious towards other aspects of my life outside work

-tbh you just got to manage it and take time for yourself and commit to goals. I could probably do things to improve these items I called out above but sometimes as I mentioned I can be a little lazier towards aspects of my life outside work.

Would echo everything others above have said. Particularly during IB I found it harder to relate to my friends (and even girls I dated) the amount of work I had on, the amount of times I got responses like “just leave at 6pm, they can’t fire you for that right?” really irritated me. Looking back I think I acted an bit self-important too - I never thought I was better than my non-IB friends, but equally as an IB analyst/associate you’re ultimately just a cog in the machine. Sure your work is important to a transaction, but the vast majority of the firedrills we had probably wouldn’t have made or broken a deal (ie the deal wouldn’t have fallen apart if I had failed to churn out that evening yet another model sensitivity run).

Since I’ve gotten into PE and my hours have improved (partly due to me being much more experienced, I’m 32 now), I find I’m more relaxed than before. However I’m still quite a different person compared to entering finance. Some peccadillos I still have to this date:

- Being cynical (especially about people). Whilst at heart I’m still generally an optimist, as a college student I was (probably naively) optimistic about everything and everyone. Having worked with finance people for so long however, I’ve become jaded by how relentlessly self-interested most people are. To be fair I think a lot of this is due to age and having a better realization of the world generally (I’m sure most people outside finance are equally self-interested when it comes down to it).

- Hating inefficiencies. Covering everything to poor service at a restaurant to unnecessary queues at airport check-in, I absolutely hate it when people don’t seem to be able to do their job with at least basic competence. I realize that’s probably an unfair standard to hold people to (given restaurant servers are on minimum wage) but having worked in IB/PE for so long I can’t help it. Equally when I have long conversations with friends and family about a decision or choice that needs to be made, and the conversation ends up becoming really repetitive/circular - I have limited patience for those unnecessarily long debates.

- Always a bit on edge. Partly because you know emails/fire-drills can come anytime in the evening or at the weekend, and partly on a bigger scale. By bigger scale I really mean job security - as a 32yr old making $300k+ I’m obviously doing well by most people’s standards, but I can’t help thinking that finance careers are more like NFL careers than regular jobs (in that you’re earning a lot but can get cut at anytime, and struggle to get back to that salary). I realize people have long careers in finance, but you’re always worrying about being able to make that progression from associate to VP, VP to Director and so on.

But yeah overall I have no (or at least limited) regrets. As others correctly said in the recent “high finance is bullshit” thread - most regular jobs have a very high degree of BS in them, and both pay a lot less and are a lot less interesting/varied on a day-to-day basis. So can’t complain overall tbh.

Going to add a few things and go against the grain. There is a big difference between changes that are a result of stress and stay that way if you are in a stressful environment (if you leave IB and go to a stressful PE role) and changes that occur because you adjust to the pace. I would argue every change that happened was positive for me once I left the industry and found a role that was more fulfilling/ a better environment. There was a bit of a social lag, but that resolved after like 6 months. The changes that happened during the job are really just better characterized as the cost of doing the job and working in a brutal environment. I didn’t think there was any change that occurred that was negative that lasted after I found a less stressful role. Everything negative was just a temporary result of a shit role.

During the role:

• sleep deprived and irritable. More quick to lose my temper.
• Slept in on Saturday’s and was unable to drink more than 1 day a week (usually Friday)
• Had no time for hobbies or dating (was able to lift weights like 3 times a week, but that’s it). Found dating to be not a priority because if I had a night off I would rather spend it with friends for my mental health than gamble on a tinder date
• Less confident, happy, and funny. If I went to the grocery store I would look at the ground more often and not notice changes around me. I also never would strike up a conversation with a random person. 
• Slowly lost contact with friends and family

Post IB and moving into a more balanced role:

• My entire life is more efficient and I’m just used to a faster pace. I find I get way more things done.
• My confidence is significantly higher than it was before the role.  While during the role it kinda crashed, once I got out and began getting enough sleep and becoming a valued member of my teams, it reversed. Post IB my attitude was more—“wow, I can actually provide a ton of advice to businesses and I am essentially a subject expert now, thanks to the sacrifice I made. Many of the middle aged individuals I work with have no idea how to lead a process or create a proper financial model or marketing materials, being able to assist and having concretely helped numerous companies utilizing my banking experience has boosted my confidence. After banking, I knew I could go toe to toe with a CFO and likely provide a huge amount of value even for a pretty established business. This is whacky when the CFO is 50 and you are 23. Additionally, post banking and once I got space from the role, I began to count my blessings more and one of those was being very established in my career at a younger age. If you complete a banking stint, you likely have years of rent saved and a resume that allows you to walk into the room and raise eyebrows. This is pretty confidence boosting.
• Im way better at handling stressful and high pressure situations. At work and outside, I am more composed when shit hits the fan. 
• I value my friends and family more. I neglected them for 2 years and realized that was a path to destruction. We all have to decide who we want to be and taking a role where everyone around me thinks I’m an asshole who doesn’t have time for them and I slowly lose contact with relationships to me seemed like a great way to have a crap life in the long run. I found it worth taking a pay cut to find a role where I would be able to do things like date, experience my 20s, and have hobbies because to me that’s what life is about. Post banking I began prioritizing friends, family, and dating and it has made me a much happier person. I had one friend who left IB say to me while I was still in the job, “You never realize how unhappy you were in investment banking until you leave” 

Regarding the point about the 6 month social lag. It was pretty brutal getting out of banking for the first 6 months. I found a lot of my friends had moved on and I had lost contact with many people who I would hit up and they would give half assed attempts at getting together. I also had a feeling as well that I was finally looking around and realizing now I had not a great job, no social life, and no hobbies. I would go to bars alone at times because by the end of banking there was only like 2 people I was close friends with and if those 2 people were busy I either could sit home alone on a Friday or go find something to do. The good news is I joined rec leagues, began dating, and kept reaching out to people and eventually all that vanished as my social network expanded. It just took awhile to rebuild my social life.

Probably a hot take and I know not as relevant as other people cause I’m only a first year. But IB has made me so much more of a beast. Just being able to grind and work hard and deal with constant BS has made me so much stronger mentally. Always been a little lazy and would cut corners, but IB has really kinda cleaned me up a ton and I think made me just a much more confident in myself (work wise) and especially ability to figure things out on the fly and get things done. Doesn’t hurt that I love all the juniors I work with and consider my associates/sr analysts some of my best friends now. Assume this answer would change if I had to put in like 5+ years of banking but think after 2 it would have done much more positive than negatives for me. 

My temper has definitely got a bit worse (lack of sleep, adderall dependency, and stress) which has put an occasional strain on my relationship with my girlfriend of 3 years, who is a dime and modern day saint. Also, about 75% of friendships I had have pretty much diminished. I used to hit the gym pretty hard as well (500lb squat, 305 bench) and now I barely scrape up enough time or energy to do some curls more than twice a week. On the other hand, I’m blessed to be in the position I’m in and it’s better than working twice as hard in some factory.

i care less about the job than when i first started; i feel very jaded and it takes a lot more to excite me i think. 

also, compared to others, I actually got into a relationship which has been an upside but not because of banking but actually because of work from home during covid

I'm 10 years in, so my view may be a bit different, but a few highlights below:

- I'm more confident

- I'm more outgoing / comfortable in public speaking situations (used to have very bad anxiety with this)

- I've broadened my interests, which makes it easier to engage with anyone about pretty much anything

- My mental toughness / fortitude is higher than I thought was possible

- I was also very cognizant throughout my career to maintain my positive attitude and patience (for the most part - faulty technology makes me rage)

- Overall, banking has forced me to amplify my "good" qualities while also significantly improving professional areas that were major deficits (so much so that a few are now my biggest strengths)

I felt changes as well. 

I sleep in a Patagonia vest, I refer to my boss as pond scum, I get: zero bitches, 

a beer belly + 25 lbs after a year

Never posted here before but this is a great question that I’ve thought critically about recently. I’m a few years into banking and have noticed several changes in my personality as time has passed. A disclaimer that I’ve actually had a good time in banking at an EB (crazy, I know) and generally I’m a very positive and relaxed person (very rarely anxious) which I can’t say for many of my peers, even before they joined the industry. I’m happy to say that banking hasn’t changed that fundamentally, only occasionally I have to dig deeper to keep a positive outlook.

1. I’m more organized and seem to care more about my things being in their correct place. I wasn’t like this (to this extent) when I was younger, and for some reason now when things are out of place it makes me slightly irritated, so much so that I typically need to fix it.

2. I’m 100% more willing to pay for convenience. I understand this is a function of pay and free time but also I was and am generally more frugal than the next person, so this was weird to me. While I perhaps used to think hard about spending $X for 10 more minutes of quality time with friends or family, it’s a no brainer to me now. Uber instead of public transport so I can get a few more minutes of peaceful shut eye? Of course. I guess I’ve adopted the non-unique mindset that I work hard to be able to afford these small conveniences, but this came as a surprise to me when the change was actually happening

3. I tend to do activities in extremes now. This is probably related to the above but if / when I’m able to get dinner with family / friends, I usually want to go somewhere nice simply for the elevated experience, not so much because I care about good food. Bars with friends? Usually getting very drunk. I’ve also found that I’m more willing to pay for ancillary experiences now, whereas I used to observe and pass on them before. A simple example to paint the picture is imagine you’re going on a trip to Hawaii. I used to be the person who would chill in the resort all week and just have a good time there because why would I need to go out of the resort and spend more money? Now I am more likely to be the person who goes and spends the $100 to ride the jet ski for like 15 freaking minutes because it might be marginally more fun

4. Think this is similar to 1 but I now care a lot about the ring of condensation from my water glass on a table. It really bothers me and please use coasters / wipe the ring off the table. Just needed to get that off my chest

Way longer than I expected this post to be but I think it’s good to share because I was initially nervous when I saw these changes start to occur. I often suppressed them and asked myself what’s wrong w me / why am I changing. Now I feel that as long as I’m aware of the changes and can manage them within reasonableness, they seem to be a byproduct of the job, and that’s ok

i get so many god damn bitches now

I left high school with not just an understanding, but an appreciation of cultures other than my own. As long as you pass the IB it is good as the courses are extremely rigorous, so colleges/universities will consider that.