I want to quit already…
Sorry for the rant I just need to vent.
It’s only been a month since I started but I already want to quit, the hours are not the only issue, it’s the shitty instructions I’m given for each task by my MBA associate/most vps, the shitty culture at the firm and industry overall, and not learning as much as other finance experiences I have had.
I miss having some type of social life, I miss being able to date and workout during the week. I’m miserable since I started and my work has been shit because I seriously just don’t care anymore. I worked hard to get here but this isn’t it, and I don’t dream of moving to pe or anything glamorous that justifies slaving away for two years. I’m so fucking frustrated that I’m given work every second by this douche bag associate with 0 instructions and a tight deadline who refuses to help out thinking I should know this stuff already. Even when I ask him for help, his instructions are useless because he also doesn’t have a clue. When reaching out to my vp for help he just tells me to fuck off and ask my juniors which makes me spend so much time asking around to see who is willing to help (most people don’t know or don’t want to help) I hate this non collaborative aspect so much, why tf is my group so fucking unfriendly. Just fucking explain to me once so I can sleep before 4 for once!!
I really just want to quit, I don’t see a point in sticking around in something I hate with a passion. My experience last summer wasn’t bad because I had a great helpful team, starting full time has been a night and day difference.
Stay a year at least...I know some on this website will tell you to quit since you're unhappy, but it is not going to do you any favors down the road.
That’s the plan right now and I’m counting down the months but I regret accepting my
Full time offer so much. It might be because this is one of the groups people would sell their kidney in this forum for that the culture is so toxic.
So you're at BB at top bank? Wow, are they all a-holes? Maybe you can seek out the one analyst/associate in group who's a decent person and can empathize with your experience, and will take the time to help you out. I mean, they can't all be a-holes... can they?
Not every group is like this...I'm an associate and like most of the people that I work with minus a few. Do your best to get staffed with people you like for now. You can always lateral and focus on culture when interviewing elsewhere. Banking isn't great mentally, but it doesn't have to be absolute torture every day.
Do associates in the US have so much power ?
Im in London, and if I need to take a break during the day, no one ever told me not to (I don’t abuse it either)
Do at least 8 months before thinking of quitting, otherwise no one will take you seriously. It sucks, but just get thru a couple months (ideally a year).
I’m in a similar boat. I wonder if it’s just the struggles of the ramp up period and not knowing what the hell is going on in instructions. I suppose that’s what I’m hoping that things get easier later. But who knows I’m here to see what everyone else says more experienced. Although my team are very nice more so the instruction side of work can be tricky to follow.
It takes a little while to ramp up. You will improve efficiency massively and will soon know how to find answers to your own questions (rather than being totally lost). This doesn't mean that the job will all of a sudden become great, but it will get better. There is also a large difference between being on an M&A team and being on a DCM team (and there is a spectrum between those). You can always move around (or out of IB).
I really don't know what to say other than I'm sorry this is happening to you. As an MBA associate I really try hard to make sure the analysts are moving along well and have the tools they need for the job and that their freetime is protected as best as possible (have gotten into arguments with VPs but that's another story) so it kind of kills me to hear someone just like me has let you pick up the pieces of what is clearly a poorly run deal. My background is in construction pre-mba, so I'm always thinking about "do they have what they need to do the job" - just like the union guys - but clearly this isn't always the case. I think it can be especially hard at bulges who NEED to hit a certain amount of associate hires to keep the gears moving.
Anyway, there's a fair bit to unpack here. First though - your first year as a junior banker is going to be like this, almost no matter what. You're not going to be able to go on dates the way your friends at Deloitte or CBRE go on dates, because you're inefficient AND the bottom of the chain so you're always going to get pinged on stuff and it's going to take a while. If it makes you feel any better, A LOT of kids at those 50 hr/week jobs find themselves suddenly on the marriage track (willfully or not lol) at the age of 24 because everyone else from their undergrad who also moved to Hoboken/Murray Hill/Williamsburg is pairing off. The analysts I know really blow it out when they can and rely on their protected time, and at my EB they are pretty strict/good about maintaining it if you don't get an exception.
Also, this is a time management and "managing up" issue. You're clearly not pushing back - if no deadline, or unreasonable deadline, you should ask - "when do we need this? I am happy to prioritize this but will need to flag to my other deals, would you like me to let them know that this is priority?" The kind of associate/VP who jams kids like this is, frankly, usually a bit of a push over because they are trying to look good for the MD. They will NOT like having their name be the reason you can't do the other directors comp spread and will generally acquiesce. This obviously is not a panacea, but it usually is a good first shot back. Furthermore, time is a finite resource and you can only do what you can do - give realistic timeframes and don't just say "will do" when they say "can I see this within the hour"
One thing I am worried about in your case (I've seen this as an MBA associate myself) is that you are letting this...resentment...show. You may not mean to let it come through, but I have absolutely run into analysts (it's usually the 1st years tbh) who act rude to associates they don't feel are up to par (MBA being a primary reason). It is absolutely noticeable and you risk getting labeled as the bad attitude. If you're gonna stay, try to grin an bear it while pushing back. You will learn and you will get better. A year in, you'll be doing this shit no problem.
You're a good person dude
Second this.
Feels like "MBA Associate" is thrown out not to call out MBAs specifically like the poster above but as a proxy for those who have no idea what they are doing, not willing to teach, fail to collaborate, and don't really do anything themselves...
You sound just like my recently departed MBA associate que Marvin's room
Feel free to PM, if you need a talk.
I would stick it out a bit longer. I hated every minute of my investment banking analyst program. Didn’t like any of my colleagues and couldn’t find anything redeeming about the job. Culture was absolutely trash and I was in sweatshop. On top of that, I had absolutely no passion for the work and not even the slightest bit of interest in what I was doing. My deal dying would make me happier than seeing it on the front page of WSJ.
However, a lot of doors open up past the 1-1.5 year mark, so it’s worth sticking around. Ended up landing my absolute dream job, and I don’t think it would’ve been possible if I didn’t stay around in IB program. I am genuinely excited to go to work in the morning and love my days. No more Sunday scaries. Culture is phenomenal as well. I can’t think of one redeeming quality to my IB experience, but I am happy I stuck with it. Put in the time and use it as a platform to get out ASAP.
Mind if I ask what your new position is?
Moved to the public markets on the buy side. Low portfolio turnover with long term orientation. Job is basically to do research and generate ideas. Very collaborative process and a lot of healthy debate. Given low turnover and time horizon, projects don’t have tight deadlines. Building a solid thesis and gaining conviction is more important than timing. The culture is phenomenal also and people are passionate about the work and investment process. WLB is pretty good too.
Fuck man, but do you think you are the exception to finding that dream exit or did you see others getting there too? Also we’re you at a very strong bank EB/BB? I’m quite a bit lower down market without a huge name so wondering if it’s still possible?
Top BB. Most of the analysts class hated the experience but landed gigs they were happy with (not just MF PE, which looks pretty miserable). Brand name definitely helped, but I think IB experience in general is valued and you probably won’t get credit without 1 to 1.5 years of experience.
Hi, can I PM. I really need some advice?
You know its bad when analyst want deals dead rather closed. That's when you know you have a culture problem.
Ah the old barista speedrun. Take a deep breath bud
Would it be bad to ask to be removed from the team that is giving me issues? All of my other teams are great and I don't mind working with them since I get downtime during the day and clear instructions/collaboration. I just can't see myself lasting months with this guy…. I never had an issue with anyone during my experiences, regardless of the hours, but this has been a nightmare
It's going to have to be done tactfully as we discussed above. I don't know how your bank handles staffing and the dynamics at play there. The best thing you can do for yourself would be to get work on your plate from other teams and continue expressing interest to those teams/your staffer that you'd like to work on their deals/pitches. If you say it is because of a person that you don't like I think you will be judged harshly. I could see it being brought up at your review, especially if the associate in question is a hardo.
Take a slightly longer-term view of rectifying this situation. I know it's easier said than done but I've seen analysts at my firm who have successfully navigated away from working for people who suck. On the flip side, those who couldn't avoid it and were always staffed with people they didn't like ended up lateraling. In any case, the situation was rectified.
We get to choose who reviews us so if anything I would just avoid choosing him. I’m semi close to my staffer I’m not sure if I can just be honest with him about the situation and ask to be removed/not staff with this individual. Sorry I’m just very conflicted here if I remove him from the equation my banking experience would get immediately better.
are you at UBS, getting strong UBS Director/Senior Associate vibes in this post - lots of bad apples at that rank here
a name drop would be nice
No. My experience is my experience, just because I’m having a shitty time doesn’t mean my group/firm is shit. A decent amount of my friends/class are actually enjoying their time in the group.
That is always the hardest thing to see. A co-worker getting worked and there is nothing you can really do about it. Sorry, that is happening to you.
Lazard>
i don't understand how the Associate can be okay with not helping you. I would assume if you do bad it makes him look bad too. If I was an associate I'd try to help my team in anyway just so I look good for my bosses.
Usually in this industry if people don’t know what they are doing (whether it’s a specific detail to high level thinking), you’d be amazed at the games people play to save their own skin. “Defer to you,” “You can step up,” “You’re closest to the data” are automatic red flags that the Associate has no idea what they are doing and don’t intend on helping out. Long term interest would be to train and develop juniors, being collaborative, not being a general asshole. But this is a pretty short term minded industry. Just look at the massive churn despite six figure compensation for 25 year olds, or the list of “strategic advisory” that is just a glorified broker process of selling a company, merging and de-merging companies constantly until you retire.
Patience, the MBA associates are learning as well.
I think when you’re A1, it’s fine to have bad associates as you don’t what you’re doing anyway.
When you’re A2/A3 though you can quickly see when comments are adding value it not and if the Assoc is creating big inefficiencies making you lose time, and that’s starting to be annoying
Still really want to fucking quit
OP here: idk how to try to workout. I tried the approach of submitting work 30 mins and hour after I actually done it but I constantly get Skype messages every 5 minutes and if my associate sees that I’m offline he calls me multiple times until I pick up… even my staffer gave me a call telling me that I can’t be working out. I worked multiple Saturdays already and I can’t even step away for long or else I get bombarded with calls… I don't think I can do this for longer, Im starting to get seriously depressed
Is this actually a norm anywhere else? Like this seems like such an extreme outlier shop
Definitely an outlier...at a BB and it's so unbelievably fucking chill lmao
Had the same exact experience my first two years (constant phone calls, comments at any time, no respect at all). Sad part is, I wasn't even in IB, but still at a top BB in a team where this was the norm. There is no point in trying to push back or hoping these people will change, they will not, and the ones I worked with never gave it a second thought after repeated complaints. I would recommend lateralling to another shop or switching to corp. dev at F500s where life is much chiller, before this group irredeemably destroys your mental health.
Isn't the lateral market still hot as hell? Why not take charge and make a change? They're all not like this.
Definitely noticed there have been less lateral postings than 3-4 months ago. You still think it’s as hot as before?
I'm not entirely positive, I haven't really kept up. Anecdotally, I am still getting a lot of recruiter inbounds.
But, either way, no one is going to fix this issue but OP. Like, I feel bad you hate it but I've had shit jobs, where I hate the team, manager is a cocksucker and the work blows - I went out and switched jobs, you gotta solve your problem or languish in sad town.
Lol, yeah because 1 st years started. In 4-5 months A2 will leave and they will need laterals again
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