Work at an Rx boutique as an analyst. I had three years prior experience working in a front office role at a BB before joining this boutique. Base pay for analysts is $75k/year here, which especially sucks with all the pay raises across banks over the past few months, but whatever. When I joined I was told typical analyst bonuses were in the 1-2x range of base. Just got notified my bonus is $15k. Have been working non-stop over the past year averaging 80-90hrs per week. Needless to say it was incredibly disheartening to hear that number. My goal in joining this group was to eventually recruit for a buyside seat, either in special situations or distressed credit, but obviously now I want to leave ASAP.
So I ask you guys, what do you think the most optimal path forward for me is?
- Try and lateral to another Rx group and then recruit from there
- Start busyide recruiting now
- stay at my current shop for another year to get more experience and then recruit (definitely do not want to do this)
Any advice would be really appreciated. I'm sort of at a loss right now. I am completely jaded and burned out at this point I do not even want to think about working another day here.
This is completely based on whether or not you want to stay on the sell-side. No one can give you a correct answer on whether or not to go the buy-side, but from what it seems like, that's where your heart wants to be. You identified that you don't want to be at your current place, so my recommendation is to lateral to a better Rx shop and then recruit from there. That way you provide yourself with more optionality. From what it sounds like, you're not necessarily keen on leaving banking in general- so later to a better shop. WIll not only give you better pay but also better opportunities in the spec sits and distressed spaces. Hey, who knows, maybe you even like your new bank enough where you stay.
Why not just go straight buyside? The BB name plus RX experience should be sufficient it seems
Wtf that should be illegal shame on this bank
You have more restraint than me - would've immediately quit and told VP and up to get fucked on my way out.
Out the bank.
Seconded— out the bank!
I will. I'm going to do a more comprehensive write up airing my grievances.
I wouldn't do it- it would become extremely easy for anyone to find out who you are, and it could possibly hurt you in the long run.
what do you think they would do? Cut his bonus lol?
Everyone knows, including you, that staying at your current bank is just no-no. You know that.
Get a job somewhere else first. Don't destroy your career.
Did you talk to them about it? First step would be telling them that it's unacceptable and way off-market. You should be able to benchmark vs. other Rx groups to show how incredibly low that is, and also reference the group revenue if you have a sense of it.
If they don't make a meaningful adjustment (they likely will offer you like $20-30k which is still insulting), then start looking. Up to you if you want to hop to another Rx group or go to buy side, that doesn't really have anything to do with what your bonus was.
I have not talked about it with them yet, but having reached out to other current/previous analysts, and disappointing bonuses seem to be the norm here. That's probably on me for not checking directly with the junior team, but the MD who hired me gave me specified range to expect so still feels shitty.
Need to talk to who gave you the specified range and why you fall where you did. I'm sure it won't be productive or useful but it should help motivate you to gtfo.
I would look to lateral immediately, I had a similar experience years ago and hung on too long to try for the perfect exit. That exit only came after a lateral move, meanwhile the 9 months I hung around at the old shop put me in a very bad way
Try to lateral ASAP. As a general rule I believe in interviewing at a broader range of places and letting the market speak as to what's feasible for my next role. As someone at a BB, finding talent with IB experience is really really hard right now so if you're cool with that being a pit stop on the way to special sits etc. that would definitely be a much better paying gig.
How was your performance review? Trying to understand if this is specific to you, which seems to be the case and the firm is politely telling you to leave.
I could be completely wrong, but I didn't interpret it that way. My performance review also included bonus communication, so same meeting. I viewed my overall feedback as positive. They said I am "exactly the type of analyst they like to have" and were "impressed by my willingness to learn and go above and beyond". Honestly I wish I got told I did a shitty job - that would have made it seem like there was something to work towards, but now I just have no motivation to try at all. From talking with other analysts, they have expressed a similar displeasure with their pay.
This is the correct question. Unless the firm is properly fucked and trying to cut costs, this is a sign that something is not working and OP either needs to turn around performance or leave.
Ok then you should definitely aim to leave ASAP
Leave ASAP. Literally any other bank not named Tobin will pay better
Why did you join another firm as an analyst after 3 years at a BB? Unless the roles are pretty different, that should have been the first red flag (I would have asked for more than standard analyst pay since you were coming in with experience).
Regardless, that is a ridiculously low bonus, and is a HUGE red flag. I don’t see how staying there is an option, you are going to get screwed next year too, no reason for them to suddenly comp you at market rate just because (unless they had an awful year this year). And the fact you were lied to by the MD is another red flag.
Get out of there asap.
Out them
how small of a shop is it?
If you don't mind me asking, what was the front office role at a BB? I'm also interested in doing Rx/M&A down the road through a lateral.
Don't listen to what they say. See what they do.
Ask for a raise to market, or at least close to market. Didn't they say you are a must-have analyst? Well, they should pay you, and here is their chance.
If they don't, they lied straight to your face. Don't tell me an extra $40K is gonna ruin their IRR. Those are just straight-up lies then.
Not based in the US anymore, but in a very similar spot, I'd even say exactly the same spot. MD promised a raise and a promotion to Associate. That won't stop me leaving after my definitely-way-below-market bonus hits the bank account because my base pay is so shit.
Man, trust your gut on this: the moment you start thinking "why are they shitty people", they are shitty people, and shitty bank.
I'm honestly surprised at some of the comments and advice I've read on this post. But nonetheless…
1) Email your MD and tell him/her you're interested in having a conversation about your compensation and ask when they have availability. However, DO NOT send this email without doing the following, because there's a chance they see your email and call you immediately - you need to be prepared
2) Prepare yourself properly. Do your homework on what the market bonus is for your position and be able to support it with several examples. KNOW what your number should be. If he/she asks "well what do you think you should have gotten", your answer needs to be "based off of my rating and the feedback I've gotten, the market bonus for my position is ~[ ]%"…don't hesitate with this response.
3) Step up. Have this conversation with a backbone. Speak professionally and firmly, but be sure not to come across as some entitled prick. From my experience, any half decent MD will respect this approach.
4) If they don't budge or if they give you some BS response, then move on immediately. Fire off that resume and gtfo, but do not burn any bridges. Hopefully, based on the conversation you'll have, they will realize that they'll lose you if they don't fix the issue; by doing this you'll put them in a corner and it sounds like you're someone they do not want to lose.
Good luck
Forgot something else…
If they do pay up, still leave and gtfo. Working for a group like that sounds horrendous.
Is it better to wait until after the holidays in January to have this conversation in person with the MD?
Deleted
Piling on at this point, but... lateral. ASAP. Give them as little notice as possible honestly, fuck this type of move from a bank.
Agree. This is what OP should do. Fuck your bank as hard as you can.
Don't ever think your current place deserves a second chance. Just NO.
Leave (lateral) immediately. That’s fucking horrid.
Warn people after leaving to help prevent others from this travesty.
Hang in…
What was your role at the BB exactly ? With 3 years of work experience shouldn't you be an Associate ?
If it wasn't performance related, why so low relative to the1-2x they originally told you?
You might be getting pushed out, compare your bonus with the other analysts. At my firm, if there's a really shitty analyst they get a $25k bonus and are politely shown the door at the end of their first year.
Good advice here especially from "VP in IB - Cov".
My question that hasn't been addressed yet is how big is this firm and how did the firm do this year. Fair or not, maybe boutique firms pay more in line with what they earn in a particular year, vs larger and certainly BB firms that typically have enough to pass around and stay competitive - most is going to the house anyway. Whereas a small boutique can have wild revenue swings year to year based on deals closing. Is your firm in the camp? Have you been tracking revenue (all analysts I've known at smaller firms do this) and is it materially down vs prior years? Also, at the time of the meeting the you push back at all and/or was there awareness on their end that it was low?
Knowing the answer to the above helps to provider more insight and recommendations on how to react.
I cannot believe people are suggesting you talk to your seniors. Why do you think they deserve a second chance?
GTFO, GTFO.
Talk to your seniors and try to get paid, then gtfo.…
I know you are mocking me. I actually don't see why your replied to my comment because they are not related at all?
OP won't burn the bridge if he gives a 1 day notice because his seniors have burnt the bridge already.
plan an amazing way to quit. I'd go with the hamburger-joint scene from Half Baked as inspiration. "F-you, F-you, F-you, you're cool, and F-you. I'm out." Then throw a deal toy and try to knock an MD out.
"You know Morris," he was saying (Morris was the chauffeur), "when I graduated from college I was lost. I figured if I didn't get a Wall Street job, I was looking at twenty-eight grand a year from IBM. It was scary." Morris nodded.
"You know what I just got paid Morris? Do you?"
"No sir."
"C'mon Morris. Take a guess."
"I wouldn't know about that Mr. Drysdale."
"Seven hundred grand Morris. Read my lips: Seven, Oh, Oh."
"Very good sir."
"Damn right it's good. That idiot Gaunt only got four fifty."
- Michael Lewis - The Money Culture
Clearly you need to leave. But do not leave before you try and get more money.
Keep in mind, this may simply be a way for your employer to try and get you to leave. Even if they said your performance is good they may just want to shrink the headpool count without firing
This story makes less than zero sense. Why is no one asking why this guy took a 75k base analyst role at a boutique after 3 years of front office experience at a BB? The fact pattern here makes <0 sense.
agreed this is fishy, even if he isnt able to get the associate title he should be looking at 100k+ base for some sort of senior analyst position or something. forgot he already had 3 years experience.
Even corp dev should have been able to beat this. Maybe his plan was distressed buyside roles so he figured an RX gig, even a boutique, would help him get there as the BB name should have been enough for him to not need to pursue a top RX shop.
This is a larp.
thats pretty F'ed up I am a Credit Analyst down south in LCOL city and making 75k base (as of new raise) and 15k bonus ill be the first to admit we should not be making the same money i work maybe 40 hours a week very relaxed and often from home. You should get out of there immediately i would literally just work and send out resumes and network.
You are getting below average bonus and below average salary unless you are a IB in my state which is very cheap you just got shat on and even in my state i think that bonus is insulting. Im pissed for you just hearing this..... Good luck OP you gotta get out of there
Are you hated by everybody in the office or maybe terrible at your job? If not idk what to tell you
I feel you. I am in the same position. My base is the same. I thought I would get at least 70K maybe even 90k with how good this year was looking. but I only hit 30k. MD told me I can make a 1x-2x base next year but I just don't see it. Excited to hear from others on this forum.
So everyone says lateral and get out. I need to do that. So what are the steps? Do I need to start networking with other people or do I apply? Hire a head hunter? What are the best next steps? My MD will give me great reviews I have a great relationship the money just isn't here.
Don't mean to take over the thread. Just want tips on how to get out as most people say leave.
Start networking with VPs at IBs in your city. Coffee chats, whatever.
I'd start first with your own BB you worked at. Say I worked FO BB for 3 years, did RX, now looking to move to IB, can we chat?
I mean shouldn't be hard lol.
75K Base, wtf?
I think that before you do anything else - and I mean anything else - you need to look yourself in the mirror and have an honest conversation with yourself about your performance and your attitude. Anyone who has worked in this world for a few years knows what a low bonus means - they are encouraging you to leave.
The advice to talk to your MD and be prepared with facts and numbers is good advice, it's the mature, professional thing to do. But you need to be prepared for that to go tits up on you. What if they tell you the bonus is intentional? What if they invite you to resign that day? What if they tell you its intentional and you still stay - what does that do for your footing in the company going forward? What if you voice your displeasure and it takes you a while to find a job? Every day that ticks by weakens your position in the company (and justifies the 15k). These are all the conversations you need to have with yourself prior to even thinking about approaching your MD. Some of these answers may dissuade you from having the conversation to begin with, and that's OK. It's much better than being asked to leave in a much more explicit manner.
You have very few options for success here. They're not going to pop you from 15k to 75k (which would still be on the low end of your expectations, right?). So what does success look like for you here? I really can't think of many, which makes a quiet exit that much more attractive. You still need to have that honest conversation with yourself so that you don't end up making the same mistakes at your next firm.
Good luck!
Not necessarily. I've seen plenty of banks fuck over analysts. It's IB after all.
Analyst is saying he put in 80-90 hours, and has 3 years BB experience (so he's not an idiot by chance).
My take is the firm doesn't want to pay. The feedback he got was he was doing well, right?
Why not ask your other analysts how much they got? You'll have your answer pretty quick.
Either way with RX + BB, you should just fucking lateral to a BB. I mean duh, lol.
Start networking ASAP, and GTFO / LATERAL.
I would have a talk with the seniors and try to simultaneously GTFO. Your base is unacceptable (especially with your experience) and bonus is even more rubbish. The average Costco associate is making more per hour than you. If you factored in overtime pay, a Costco associate is making 50%+ more than you per hour (same goes for most distribution workers). Not only is your wage unacceptable by RX standards, it’s below market rate for jobs with no pre-reqs.
3 years of relevant experience at a BB and you take 75k base? Something doesn't add up here...
For the love of god, as someone who's testing the waters in boutique RX land, please PM me the firm name so I can avoid as I am currently in the early stages of making RX moves and am speaking with boutqiues
This makes 0 sense, not legit RX firm pay this low. Sounds more like RX consulting firm?
Dolor voluptatibus praesentium voluptatem velit architecto sunt voluptatem accusantium. In ut ad praesentium laborum quis. Aut nesciunt rem quis eos iusto explicabo quibusdam.
Eum recusandae nihil qui distinctio. Voluptas perspiciatis sint ad molestiae debitis tempore ex. Doloribus quia tenetur ullam reiciendis provident. Nihil veniam magni numquam sit alias rem.
Inventore rem necessitatibus ut minus non omnis ipsa sequi. Repellat quibusdam inventore nam iusto enim vero. Dicta dolores magni sunt qui. Corrupti tempore sint cupiditate voluptates.
See All Comments - 100% Free
WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Unlock with your email and get bonus: 6 financial modeling lessons free ($199 value)
or Unlock with your social account...
Eaque voluptas architecto et delectus. Quaerat praesentium autem illo error iusto. Similique temporibus quis qui.
Atque repellat natus aspernatur tenetur id laudantium. Qui quam laudantium eius et. Temporibus impedit laboriosam doloribus rem possimus consequatur. Est accusamus ea aut impedit quis delectus ut.
Consequatur adipisci et sed atque. Eum sed possimus eveniet sit et. Et eum aut id quidem aliquid maiores asperiores. Sit doloremque laboriosam laborum saepe et omnis.
Rerum quo est magni necessitatibus laudantium. Accusamus non aut perferendis repellat corporis earum. Omnis laboriosam reiciendis ut sequi at laudantium rerum. Exercitationem exercitationem eaque unde eum.