Investment Banking is the only place where discrimination still truly exists

I see bankers take one look at a school and immediately dismiss students - in fact, they require that they take at least ~5-10 students from target schools, regardless of their credentials.

And you know when they ask for your university when you apply at a bank? It's used to weed out the non-target students.

Frankly its sick, and worse than any of this fake racism stuff that people claim nowadays.

It hardly matters how good you are, it just matters what stamp you've got on your jacket. I hope you've got the right one.

Going to a target school is usually not a reflection of what kind of a person you are or how hard you work. It's a reflection of the home you grew up in. It's a reflection of what class your parents grew up in. Were they smart enough to hire tutors? Did they understand how important the SAT was and did they get you prep? Did they make sure you applied to the best schools? Did they prepare you for a career?

The best students across universities are generally the same. I understand that people are trying to maintain the reputation of the industry (you wouldn't want to work with GS if any kid could get in, would you?), but this is disgusting. At least make it somewhat merit-based.

Christ, these people make me sick.

But not as sick as the people want to break in make me. The whole reason banks do this is because everyone, including you, is chasing prestige.

People care more about what they're called and what bank you work at than the work they are actually doing. I know half of you won't work for certain banks just because of their name. The other half just want to be investment bankers so they can see people's eyes light up.

Their first thought isn't, "who will teach me the most", it's "what will other people think?". It's not just across banking, it's across everything you do.

You create your own hell, and now you live in it. If you want things to change, it starts with you.

Make all your decisions for the right reasons. Ignore what other people think. Work because you enjoy the results you produce. Trust yourself.

Only then will you be happy.

 

I know you're a troll but if people at non-targets have critical thinking skills as bad as yours then I see why banks wouldn't hire them.

Also, it's funny you use Goldman Sachs as an example because from what I've seen they're more open to hiring good talent regardless of your school

 
  1. No one gives a shit about grades, that's just the bare minimum (what they really care about is if you played football)
  2. I never said target schools were good schools, just well-connected and expensive.

Didn't mean to hurt your fragile ego by suggesting that the brand name of your school doesn't reflect the quality of human being you are.

Let me hear you say, this shit is bananas, B-A-N-A-N-A-S!
 

If the candidate is faith driven enough to have it affect their job then i would like to think that they would get dinged for other reasons, but obviously not always the case.

cant really speak on the broader discrimination laws, i know that i would want quality service no matter where i go. I would like the guy in the back making my mcdonnalds to be a 5star chef, but thats not going to happen.

I say fuck change, I don't chase dimes
 
trazer985:
Reminder again, playing devil's advocate here:

A lot of faiths are based on belief. No evidence to support, it's just "faith". Thus demonstrating a characteristic of someone that they make decisions, big ones, without any evidence to back them up.

This is a big leap of logic. I for one don't think this assertion is true in the least. Do you have any evidence to support this generalization?

 

Name one religon that is based on more then just blind faith.

Wherever I see people doing something the way it's always been done, the way it's 'supposed' to be done, following the same old trends, well, that's just a big red flag to me to go look somewhere else. - Mark Cuban
 

Should we take into account beliefs as evidence of what people are willing to do (actions) based on the factors they made to determine them, or should this, for whatever reason, be exempt from the decision making progress regarding employment.

If they are willing to dedicate a substantial amount of life resource into something based on no evidence, (evidence as an impartial, scientific being would accept), then can you take inference that they will approach the job in the same way?

What factors are we allowed to discriminate in? This isn't a government vs. private. I used those example because most agree with them, yet they are discrimination, so we do accept it on one level, but not the other.

 

Firstly, banks want to quickly weed through candidates - good school = prob smart and good networking/connections (important in business) Secondly, "fit" is very important. Ik some older college grads who wanted to break into certain tech companies but they didn't fit the "culture". So it's not just wall st. The culture in IB is largely driven by prestige - the nature of winning clients and deals and having polished bankers. Thirdly, when u have a sought-after job with many applicants, the employer has the power to be picky. I have a friend who is trying to become a tv/movie actor and there are literally hundreds of people applying to one role in a cast. Every applicant has the ability to play and act in the role but my friend (and every actor) gets discriminated for the way his eyebrows look, ears look, voice sounds, etc. In IB recruiting, many candidates are capable of doing the job but little things such as that extra ivy league polish can separate 2 candidates. btw i'm not trying to justify it

 

Why did this get monkey shit when it's true? Can the mods please start banning these kids and their alt accounts? AndyLouis they don't add anything of value to any discussion and just stand around yelling "woe is me!" to each other.

 

They can't technically reject you solely due to deafness. If you have the right skills and the potential they'll make the accomodations necessary for you to do your job.

 
Determined:
They can't technically reject you solely due to deafness. If you have the right skills and the potential they'll make the accomodations necessary for you to do your job.

I really appreciate your answer. How can I inform a recruiter of my deafness without stating that I am deaf on my resume? According to people here, it's not such a good idea to state that I am disabled on my resume so that's why I am asking this question. I just cannot imagine when I see an interviewer's reaction after I tell him/her that I am deaf.

 

Brutally honest, I cannot see it unless you are beyond excellent across the board. Its just more difficult for them than they would want to deal with e.g. HR phone call right off the bat. Plus, I know I'm on the phone at my desk quite often, not sure the workaround for someone in your situation. If you can read lips, maybe at a very small firm but probably not something front office.

Frank Sinatra - "Alcohol may be man's worst enemy, but the bible says love your enemy."
 

I have a disability. It is not as visible as your deafness but it still will DESTROY any healthcare plan of a company I would work for. The way I have always thought about it is, if you can avoid disclosing it (GINA 2007 ftw!) that would be best. Obviously deafness is probably going to be out there pretty early, but you get what I'm saying. While they won't deny you for it on paper, there are so many factors that can ding the most qualified candidate, they might use your minor faults as justification for not hiring you when in essence it is because of your disability.

Reality hits you hard, bro...
 
MMBinNC:
I have a disability. It is not as visible as your deafness but it still will DESTROY any healthcare plan of a company I would work for. The way I have always thought about it is, if you can avoid disclosing it (GINA 2007 ftw!) that would be best. Obviously deafness is probably going to be out there pretty early, but you get what I'm saying. While they won't deny you for it on paper, there are so many factors that can ding the most qualified candidate, they might use your minor faults as justification for not hiring you when in essence it is because of your disability.

Why would my deafness "destroy" any healthcare plan of a company? My health is pretty amazing, but I just cannot hear. I think I don't get what you said. Care to explain? Can you please explain what GINA 2007 is? I am the first deaf person in my whole generations -- I was born that way when my mom had a flu. I am aware that I am going to face challenges when it comes to jobs. Actually, it's nothing new for the deaf community. There are deaf doctors, nurses, accountants, etc. So, I think I can do that.

 

I'm not saying that your deafness would harm the HC plan, that was more in reference to me. Companies tend to want the employees that are the best with the least amount of hassle. At least that's what I've seen. In all honesty, I don't think deafness is particularly inhibiting in many jobs- the only obvious problem that I would foresee would be using the phone.

GINA essentially says that a person can not be discriminated against for genetic information. Plus the Americans With Disabilities Act says that you don't have to disclose your disability to an employer. There are obvious benefits to disclosing you disability- and yours seems like it would be necessary to do so.

The whole issue is that if you disclose your illness during the interview process (which you will have to if you sign) it is really hard to prove discrimination. If you get the offer and then tell them it's easy pickings for an ADA suit.

Honestly I have no idea what to do in your specific situation. I would probably be upfront with it if you need to use sign language, have a speech impediment, or something else that is obvious. Good luck man, looks like you have the right mindset ging forward.

Reality hits you hard, bro...
 
MMBinNC:
I'm not saying that your deafness would harm the HC plan, that was more in reference to me. Companies tend to want the employees that are the best with the least amount of hassle. At least that's what I've seen. In all honesty, I don't think deafness is particularly inhibiting in many jobs- the only obvious problem that I would foresee would be using the phone.

GINA essentially says that a person can not be discriminated against for genetic information. Plus the Americans With Disabilities Act says that you don't have to disclose your disability to an employer. There are obvious benefits to disclosing you disability- and yours seems like it would be necessary to do so.

The whole issue is that if you disclose your illness during the interview process (which you will have to if you sign) it is really hard to prove discrimination. If you get the offer and then tell them it's easy pickings for an ADA suit.

Honestly I have no idea what to do in your specific situation. I would probably be upfront with it if you need to use sign language, have a speech impediment, or something else that is obvious. Good luck man, looks like you have the right mindset ging forward.

I appreciate your time for answering. I really do. How did you overcome the challenges as a disabled person?

I will more likely disclose my disability during the interview process or the event so that they will be better prepared. Obviously, I have a chance to be at a disadvantage, but I feel that it's necessary to do that. The funny thing is, my friend, who is working at the marketing company, told me the exact same thing. "If they give you an offer and you want it, show 'em ADA suit." The using the phone issue can be easily solved, but I just have to "educate" people who are ignorant about the technology being available for the deaf people. The technology for the deaf people is quite amazing so I'm gonna take advantage of it.

 
gofedwinAus:
discrimination is more of an issue than it has ever been in the past. Check out Calgary. Canadas most racist city no matter what other people say if you are not white you cant even enter a dam club.

Clearly just read the thread title and not the actual thread.

"For I am a sinner in the hands of an angry God. Bloody Mary full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death, which I hope is soon. Amen."
 

If you can communicate by reading lips and you sound normal then there won't be any problems--they'll love hiring a deaf person and bragging about it. It gives them cover to discriminate against others. If your issues are obvious then you probably won't get the job unless you're a stellar candidate. Life's unfair. I'd rather by deaf and better looking since I don't like music much anyway.

 
WaitForSlutSet:
If you can communicate by reading lips and you sound normal then there won't be any problems--they'll love hiring a deaf person and bragging about it. It gives them cover to discriminate against others. If your issues are obvious then you probably won't get the job unless you're a stellar candidate. Life's unfair. I'd rather by deaf and better looking since I don't like music much anyway.

It's quite possible to learn how to read lips really well, but it's really time consuming and hiring a speech pathologist is so expensive. All I am doing right now is, reading my professors' lips while watching my interpreters in the classrooms. It's not helpful, but I have no choice. Some deaf people are pretty good at reading lips simply because they went to the "oral" school, which I didn't attend. I attended the deaf school until the high school freshman year.

 

Maybe get really good at lip reading (if that's even something you can improve at this point? I'm not sure...)? A relative works at a hospital with a deaf lady that can read lips and talk so well that he said you wouldn't be able to tell that she's deaf unless she told you. Good luck.

If your dreams don't scare you, then they are not big enough. "There are two types of people in this world: People who say they pee in the shower, and dirty fucking liars."-Louis C.K.
 

Get a high GPA and don't worry if you don't make Ibanking. It's it cut throat as shit. Something like Corp Fin/Accounting can be done without needing to hear; banking not so much.

But seriously mad props. As long as you are capable, which I am sure you are, you can leverage your deafness to benefit you. I could only assume that guy from IBM would love to pull strings for you/just be a mentor. I hope you make it man, good luck!!!!

 

I am here to bump this. I feel it's necessary to do so considering the fact that I am still looking for more inputs and advices on communication barriers, discrimination, etc. I just want to get a better understanding of the nature of your work.

I also have questions for you guys who are working as bankers at small-BB firms, financial analysts at Fortune 500, TS analysts at Big 4 firms, etc. Speaking of my deafness, do you think my deafness will be a big factor for the hiring process as well as the work environment? I seem to think so. The reason I am asking that is, communication is the main key for every and each group, but I am confident that there will be a solution that may break down the communication barriers. I just want to know your opinion on this (it's okay to be honest no matter what if it's cruel or friendly). I can use that to my advantage! How do you feel about having a deaf colleague in your group? Big group counts if you will.

I am aware of the fact that there’s uncertainty in my future due to my deafness, but I just make sure that it’s not a major hindrance. I know it’s not going to be an easy path, but I am confident that it can be done. I’ll just wait for a right employer to recognize that in order for me to be sitting in their office for an interview.

Actually, I’ve met some who are very understandable, but they work in completely different fields. I’ve met very a few people who are currently working in the finance/accounting fields (think J&J), and they are very optimistic about breaking down the communication barriers and working with deaf colleagues. The official answer is that there’s no discrimination, which they are not allowed to discriminate against people with disabilities, that they are required to make reasonable accommodation. I’ve heard that all my life. I think the real answer gets a bit more complicated because even if no future employer ever admits that my disability had an effect on a hiring decision, it can still be the deciding factor. That’s what I am concerned mostly about, but again, it depends on the employer’s views on disability.

 

To respond to your original question, I do believe discrimination does exist. Laws state they cannot discriminate because your disability, but that means nothing from my experience.

I graduated with a degree in accounting from a well known school, I had a good GPA, I had an internship at a top corporation, and I recently passed the CPA. My resume has landed me interviews, but I've only had one job offer. I was never one to jump to call discrimination not was overly sensitive until I was asked during interviews that were clearly aimed at my disability. Also, when an small accounting firm manager told me during an interview employees sometimes sleep at the office and if "that's the lifestyle I can handle."

I don't want to sound cynical or discourage you, but its just my experience. If your still looking for a job, try the US government - they don't discriminate. Or try to get phone interviews. I got my internship and then first job offer after phone interviews only.

Good luck.

 

I thought you got an internship. What are you crying about now?

Absolute truths don't exist... celebrated opinions do.
 

Well if you want to legally change you name you can, however you will have to list your birth name for the back ground check.

Follow the shit your fellow monkeys say @shitWSOsays Life is hard, it's even harder when you're stupid - John Wayne
 

Agree with above posters. I went to a liberal arts school with lots of internationals. Lots of the kids from Asia used English names when people referred to them.

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for freedom of thought which they seldom use.
 

A liberal PM?

Under my tutelage, you will grow from boys to men. From men into gladiators. And from gladiators into SWANSONS.
 

Just learn to talk out of both sides of your mouth. Where I work, the MD is very liberal, and the veep is a die hard conservative and they both asked me political questions at the interview and so lots of doublespeak made them both happy. Just because you worked at a place doesn't necessarily mean you subscribe to the political mood, but leave stuff like "OWS organizer" or "GOP strategist" off just to be safe....unless you know the person on the other end reading your resume.

Get busy living
 

Honestly, only the most politically active people will know anyting about Koch Industries. I've been an active Republican for the better part of 15 years (since I was 11 or 12) and never even heard of the Koch brothers until the Wisconsin union debate earlier this year--even now I still don't know much about them.

The truth is, however, I would definitely discriminate as the hiring manager against person's working for, say, George Soros. So yeah, if you ran into a liberal Democrat political activist who is the hiring manager you're probably screwed, but the odds of that happening are very small. A run in the mill Democrat/liberal will not even notice.

Array
 
Virginia Tech 4ever:
Honestly, only the most politically active people will know anyting about Koch Industries. I've been an active Republican for the better part of 15 years (since I was 11 or 12) and never even heard of the Koch brothers until the Wisconsin union debate earlier this year--even now I still don't know much about them.

The truth is, however, I would definitely discriminate as the hiring manager against person's working for, say, George Soros. So yeah, if you ran into a liberal Democrat political activist who is the hiring manager you're probably screwed, but the odds of that happening are very small. A run in the mill Democrat/liberal will not even notice.

First of all anybody who reads the news regularly knows who the Koch bros are and has for quite some time. Secondly, I am not sure what industry you work in, but discriminating against somebody for working for Soros would be pretty strange given Soros' track record of success...seems extremely self-defeating. I am a libertarian and wouldnt discriminate against anybody who i felt could help me make money...I might throw out a very junior person's resume if they were extremely politically active on either side just because I tend to think that young people who are too involved in politics tend to be annoying. For example hiring someone who has been an active republican since age 11 would not be a smart move.

 

I didn't mean to misrepresent with the hypothetical, I'm not a Kosh Employee. I just wanted to scope the whole situation out. I'm not trolling, but I am ignorant. Thanks for the replies.

 
monkey-poop:
I didn't mean to misrepresent with the hypothetical, I'm not a Kosh Employee. I just wanted to scope the whole situation out. I'm not trolling, but I am ignorant. Thanks for the replies.
For the most part, people really won't understand your political affiliations unless you have things like ACLU or American Enterprise Institute...people with a sophisticated understanding of politics aren't typically found in the HR department.

There's a whole lot more to this, but I'm just taking this opportunity to rag on HR again :)

Get busy living
 

Yeah, I think the same rules apply though. I love this country, but the truth is the overwhelming majority of Americans don't know the ACLU from the ACLJ. You're fine unless you run into the small minority--like me--who are like encyclopedias about all things political, past and present.

Array
 
Virginia Tech 4ever:
Yeah, I think the same rules apply though. I love this country, but the truth is the overwhelming majority of Americans don't know the ACLU from the ACLJ. You're fine unless you run into the small minority--like me--who are like encyclopedias about all things political, past and present.
^ This type of guy is why you should make every effort to have a politically neutral/ambiguous resume. Even if you're a staunch Republican and your boss is a big GOP fanboy, you have to realize that by being too vocal in the office about politics you will attract the wrath of opposition voters. The same logic holds for liberals: keep your mouth shut about that crap in the office and get to work.

Ok, and kudos to knowing what is what VT4E, I see it as a good thing.

Get busy living
 
Ravenous:
No one cares. There are a lot of liberal people on Wall St. (including plenty of Jews). Not trying to be a hater, but that's a fact. Just don't be obnoxious.

I would say my office which is a large macro fund is 50/50 liberal/conservative and the general attitude is very cynical toward politicians at all...ie I get less flack for my brand of libertarian political nihlism then somebody would for being a genuine supporter of Obama or Romney. I think the sell-side is also 50/50-ish but people tend to be quieter and less sarcastic about the whole topic because the environment in so corporate. And yes its true any profession that has alot of jewish peope is going to have alot of Democrats since 80%ish of jews vote democrat.