I am just beginning to comprehend how mentally fucked up I am from IB this year.
I feel like an empty shell of a human being so far gone that my mind has been wiped on how to human.
I am not depressed, this isn't a cry for help, but going from 0-100 after covid and never leaving 100 for a year has left me not able to understand 0-99.
I quit three weeks ago and expected a typical rebound from burn out, but being forced by my firm to work a minimum of 16 hours a day, 7 days a week, completely cut from reality has left scars that I genuinely did not expect and so difficult to recover from.
I seriously am at a loss for words on how big of an impact this apparently had on me. They have wrecked me as a human being.
I am not even trying to complain and get into the argument that IB is no longer the oppurtunity it used be like other threads, but how have banks been able to be so consiously unwilling to adapt to such a rapid deterioration to the well-being of their employees thats continually accelerating by their bullshit solution consisting of a quarterly email saying they "care". How is a disconnect at this level continuing to exist...
Me and many others understand you well. As can be seen from the increasing amount of threads on the platform, this is becoming more and more of a problem in the industry. I can tell you I joined a place that was always thought to have great work life balance and I am pulling consistent 85-95 hour weeks with the occasional 120. Still hoping it will get better after covid, but wondering whether I'd be better off just joining a BB or some of the places I discarded back in the day because of the worse hours and culture. And there is not one week I don't seriously consider quitting. Note - this is coming from a top bucket, well respected analyst within the floor. If you also consider that IB is also not opening up anymore the paths and amounts of wealth it once did back in the day, the picture becomes really bleak when you are in it. Kudos to you for moving on.
Totally feel you.
I used to be known as a positive person and hated taking a day off (some could say, a workaholic) since high school when I started working. Now I take one full day off and all I can think about is how much my body physically aches in the chest, back, and head and I have to lay in bed all day hoping the nap at least makes me a little more rested. Or how my head throbs even after cutting off the sugary drinks and caffeine for a month. And mentally can’t even focus on the activities I like (reading, exercising) to get my mind off work because of the mental and physical pain. I honestly feel both grateful for and horrible about my friends (both finance and non-finance) who are great listeners to my problems and tell me about their lives to take my mind off work, but also are telling me how much they worry about me after noticing something is off to my usual energy levels.
MBA Associate throwing you all the work, unable to answer any big picture or small detail items, sighing at your over the phone anytime you ask a single question (because they don’t know how to answer), telling you to take the day off and “no rush” on the action item with seniors on the email chain but pinging you a dozen times on your pre-planned and communicated vacation day asking for materials that never get used, taking all the credit and sucking up to the MDs, berating you for missing a “value add” comment yet making you write up all the bullets and do the excel analysis and making you double check the work that makes you question why they make any money at all. Having zero mentorship from your VP and Directors. Having MDs who seem to forget you completely exist and gaslight you on threads with other team members.
Once or twice, sure. A couple of times in a month, can be dealt with and adjusted to. Experience nearly everyday with verbal harassment on the phone and none of the upside of the usual IB Analyst years others have already mentioned in other threads that makes the job bearable in WFH? Not surprising it will (as it has me) completely burn you out.
The only thing keeping me going is honestly a few people I like on the team, loving the work, and marking the time of bonus / return to office that can alleviate some of these dynamics...
I hear you - this has always been a very tough, competitive industry, and WFH has really exacerbated some of the “low lights” while also taking away some of the best things that analyst usually experience (building relationships with others, mentorship, crazy stories with teammates, like getting a deck printed at 4 am and ubering it to the airport, etc). Further, I know this has been said 100x, but with bankers not traveling, they can schedule way more client calls, which require more materials. So far YTD total investment banking fees are up like 35%. 2020 was one of the busiest years ever and 2021 is on track to beat it...
I personally am coming down off of a pretty rough 4 month stretch. This past weekend was probably my first real weekend since October. What has helped me push through it is the “bigger picture”. Yes, there are certainly days, weeks and even months where things just absolutely suck. But, what I always come back to is the opportunity...
Average person who makes $40k/year and works 40 years will have lifetime earnings of $1.6mm. This can be achieved (and in many cases surpassed) by completing a successful A2A stint. At my firm it’s 2 years analyst and 3.5 associate. I ran the numbers and if you are a well ranked, you can expect to make ~$1.7mm or $1.8mm in just those 5.5 years alone. Certainly not easy by any means, but to me that’s the light at the end of the tunnel. Can make yourself a millionaire by 30, etc...
I call it “freedom tax”. Make this sacrifice while young and reap the benefits the rest of your life
Treating 40k a year with no salary growth as the contrapositive is bizarre. Your top school peers in various flavors of consulting will make $90-120k year 1, in SWE $130-200, in vanilla engineering $90-120k...all for pretty reasonable hours
This is just way to say you're willing to sacrifice the arguably best years of your life so that you could have a "better" 30s. There is merit to planning for the future and and I'm all for working hard to gain a sense of financial security, but not at the cost of not being able to truly "live" in my 20s. Especially with how things have become during WFH, I find it hard to believe things will slow down to pre-COVID levels in terms of pitching any time soon, even if we go back to the office. Zoom meetings are here to stay.
Any labor associations you guys can reach out to? U word?
If Bankers unionize, Hell must have frozen over.
honestly wanted to start a thread like this, recently started in a BB and have been working like hell, the thing that hurts me the most (and i mean deeply hurt) is the weekends they destroy - i honestly wouldnt mind working like a dog through the week if we had at least 1 weekend day where they wouldnt touch as at all.
feels like the only thing keeping me going is my fucking amazing wonderful supportive gf. god i know this doesnt make any sense at all but i just wanted to let it out.
got an email just now basically saying that our weekend is fucked, a weekend that i made plans for, i felt this ball of pain just welling up inside me, went for a walk and cried it out - actually felt much better after.
no idea what the fuck im saying tbh maybe im just too fucking tired but i just wanted to air something out lol
Was literally thinking about this earlier today... tough year for sure. I seem to be thinking about alternate careers and living a more simple life almost daily... which is very atypical for me. I'm one of those psychotic, "born to bank" type of people that loves to grind with a smile on their face, but this year has been particularly challenging given the various externalities and uncertainty surrounding the world health situation and the economy. There are definitely good days, not so bad days, bad days, and "really not having a good time days" - there has been a noticeable mix shift of days to the right along that spectrum over the last 11 months. In my opinion, working from home for extended periods of time (i.e., almost a year) can amplify the mix shift since we lose out on the camaraderie, social aspect, dinners / closing parties and other fun aspects of the job.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel through, so let's try to stay as positive as possible and find the will to relentlessly crush and come out of the other end of this stronger, together.
for the VPs commenting on this thread -- would be great if you guys weren't bending the knee to every MD demand and being toxic AF to your deal team
MDs aren't the ones keeping junior bankers awake at night. Its the VPs who expect analysts to ramp to their level overnight
Broskies, I feel you. I work 55-60 hours a week M-F, and I'M tired af and feel like I work a lot. Not sure how you you guys manage to do more than 70+ hours in a week
Don't let the MS fool you. 55-60 hours is a lot. You're just in the wrong place to complain about it, haha.
So upsetting to me as an older professional what young people are going through, and how mentally sick it is. It is literally illness-inducing. This will not be your last job or opportunity.
Years down the line it will be noted how poorly jr professionals were treated, and how dangerous it was.
Great post OP. This pandemic has been so tough - and I'm saying that as a 31-year old in PE who has thankfully already gone through his IB years pre-covid, but is still finding it hard. I honestly can't blame you for quitting - as you said, all the positives of IB (social/drinks etc, networking, analyst camaraderie) have all been taken away and now there are just relentless 90-100 hour weeks from your bedroom office.
You raised a great point as to why aren't IBs doing more to address this - I think the sad reality is they don't really care. I know a lot of IB MDs (and senior people in my PE firm) who are loving working at home - they have a nice big house in the suburbs with a sick office set up, no more commute, get to see the family/kids, and can set up a ton more meetings over Zoom. And so from a work perspective I sadly think a lot of senior people in the industry see the outcome of the pandemic as a great positive. And they don't care that for analysts at the start of their careers this must be living hell right now - also they know they can hire plenty more kids if analysts decide they can't hack it anymore and quit.
Anyway, just wanted to say great post - usually I hate these "I quit IB" posts as very self-centered and whiny, but I can 100% understand why you decided to quit. Good luck in whatever you decide to do next.
Completely agree. Activity is at its peak, senior bankers know what we are going through at the junior level but they just close their eyes. A new batch of juniors will join in the summer and life will continue, its just much easier for them to ignore. Try ignoring them a bit more as well in return, don’t do a bad job but do what you can to survive this period. Better for you to give 80% and survive than 100% and quit in a few months.
Yes great advice - to all analysts struggling right now, as the poster above says I would give 80% rather than 100% if it stops you from quitting in the immediate future. This current situation won’t last forever - and what you need to remember is as much as people bitched and moaned about IB hours pre-covid, I can confidently say their experience was nowhere near as tough as it is right now. Analyst camaraderie/friendship, mentorship, social drinks etc really do make a huge difference in making the IB experience tolerable - and hopefully they will be coming back sooner rather than later.