I'm currently a 2nd year Associate at what I would consider a tier 2 LMM shop. I would like to move up market and I'm wondering what people think makes the most sense from a timing perspective. I know as an Associate I would most likely have to do an extra year if I went up market - being an Associate for an extra year seems less than ideal if I am being honest. My firms pays inline with street and I am getting good reps so I am not in a rush to make a move.
- Does it become significantly more difficult to lateral up market as a VP?
- Is there a shot to lateral from a tier 2 LMM to an EB at either the Associate or VP level? I'm currently getting great reviews and was top bucket at the last bonus cycle.
- Any suggestions on good HH firms for making a move like this?
Thanks in advance for the help!
Yes it's harder as a VP because most VPs are looking to go down market (in my personal experience). So you are competing with other lateral VPs from BB/MM backgrounds. And there are always more needs for associates than VPs.
Thanks for the input. I figure there are less spots, but I do see them posted often and there is high churn at the VP level.
Yeah I have noticed that as well. The three VPs on my Levfin team have come from JP, BMO, Citi so they came to my bank for a really good WLB and really good pay so it makes total sense in my opinion
Why are more VPs trying to go downmarket? WLB?
WLB, Pay, Internal competition, etc
TLDR but there are mainly two points that should be weighed:
If you can successfully lateral, definitely move as a VP not associate. I've seen many laterals end up stuck as an associate for an extra year or even two (i.e. ASO 4 or 5), before they've gained enough reputation, support and political backing in the office to make VP. If you can lateral as a VP, you can skip this trouble entirely.
On the flip side, there are far fewer VP lateral opportunities, more so if you're looking to move upmarket.
That is my exact fear. I have a really strong reputation at my current company, even enough for consideration for an early VP promotion because of my buyside and leadership experience. The downside as you mentioned is that there are fewer spots.
My other fear is the longer I am lower middle market the harder it will be to go up market. I have nothing to base that on though.
It’s either lateral now as an associate and stick it out at ASO for another 2 years at the new bank, or wait 2 more years at your current bank as, presumably as a junior VP, to get the credibility that you can perform at the VP level up market (as you’re coming from a LMM). I would stick it out at your current place til VP then lateral as a VP a couple years down the line.
Yes. If I did it at the VP level my plan would be to do a minimum of a year as a VP and then lateral with the assumption that I would most likely have to do another year as a VP1.
Yeah, I’m in a similar spot tbh. Gained the reputation and credibility to likely get a quick VP promote at current MM shop, and don’t want to restart that process at a new firm and grind for another 1-2 years as an associate. I am unsure how difficult the VP lateral is though, so in theory, it might be much easier to lateral as a senior associate but there is obviously a cost to that. I suppose it only makes sense to try and lateral now if the cost of staying at your current shop for another 1-2yrs is greater than the cost of being an associate for another 1-2 years. For me, it’s not, and I’m not dying to lateral up market anyway.
Hi - I am a VP2 at tier 2 BB.
Happy to DM you but you really need to ask yourself what you’re looking for and why you want to move up market. You think easier to win deals? More interesting projects or around smarter bankers? Maybe but the trade off is starting over, maybe work life balance etc..
I tested the market at a VP2 (granted terrible market) and most seemed to want Senior Associate / VP1 that they could groom. If you’re going to do it, now would be the time. You’re going to have to make a sacrifice on how many years you take back.
Once you’re a senior VP you’ve built relationships inside and out of the bank that will make it hard to leave and candidly you’ll have enough experience you won’t want to start over. Hope this helps
Would underwrite this as well. Moved to EB as VP plus geo switch.
At the end of the day, you’re asking the wrong question. Like in a deal, you should not try to guess the market environment in 1-2 years but should use current momentum, if you really want to switch. Or test the market and see how it goes / if you see the right level of interest, and also discuss progression with the respective teams if you’re farther along in the processes. In my view, it makes no sense weighing assoc lateral now against VP lateral in 2Y. Plenty depends on future market conditions, your deals, reputation of your current place in 2Y… do yourself a favor and make an informed decision basing on the factors which you can control or at least properly assess today.
My 2 cents… in any case, fingers crossed
edit: one addition, demand for associates is generally higher due to high rotation in the 3-6Y bracket, but that depends of course on bank/region/team specifics and can also be other way around, so also not the most solid criteria for your assessment…
Yes, I certainly agree. Not trying to time the market. Your input is helpful. I just want to make sure that I don't spend too much time going down the wrong road - gaining irrelevant experience, etc. etc. before I make a move.
Do you mind if I DM you about your move to EB?
Thanks for the input. My main reasons are that I want to work on more challenging deals, learn from smarter bankers, and higher earning potential as a senior banker. I plan to be in banking for life so I want to plant my flag at the best shop that I can. I completely agree that there is no point to try to figure out what the job market is going to be like. I was looking for input along some of the things that you mentioned - will my deal experience not be relevant enough so making it harder to switch the longer that I wait, do EBs want someonne coming over with client relationships at the VP level (even if those relationships are young), any other things of that nature that I am not aware of?
I figure either as an associate or VP I will be held back a year or two. It's something I am willing to do for the longterm benefit.
Any suggestions on head hunters that you used when looking to make a move?
I moved as an Asc 1 to a T1 BB (MS/GS/JPM). Ended up losing a year, but consider it worth it since the name brand was worth it.
It's not guaranteed that you'll lose a year, but if that is the case it might be for the better. You are comp'd against your peers, and you have a great chance to outperform them.
As others stated, VP slots are much fewer. Plus, the client relationships you develop as an Asc at the new bank will hopefully be more plentiful and fruitful as you get promoted to VP.
did you move upstream from a MM bank?
LMM shop. NYC based though.
If you’re content with your current job and in no rush, seems like waiting an extra year or two to find a VP role makes the best sense.
Nothing (I truly mean it) in this world is worth grinding an extra year as an associate. If you don't hate your office/group plus have a shot at an early promote, 200% not worth moving.
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