My hippie mom doesn't want me to go into IB
I'm a freshman at what you guys would consider a semi target (uva / mich / notre dame) and am at the point where i'm really trying to figure out the rest of my time in undergrad and what i want to do when i graduate.
I'm good at finance, i understand how the IB path works and what the benefits are, and via my uncle (other side of family, mom hates him) i've been able to meet a few people in the industry and they've given me some encouragement.
Problem: when i explain to my mom about this she goes on this rant about how the big banks are evil, bankers should be in jail etc etc, she obviously doesnt get it. She understands why I want to do it but she thinks it will change me for the worse as a person and we argue about it every time it comes up. She'd rather i major in something more "rounded" that will help me "develop as a person" and that i'm too young still to know what I want to do after undergrad. That i'm choosing IB for the money.
This wouldn't be a problem but she's the one paying for all my education. I guess ultimately i still have the decision in what i major in and where to go next but i can just see our arguments getting worse and worse...
What should I do? I can't just tell her to F off ... how can i better explain it to her?
Well she's not wrong.
All jokes aside you should pursue what interests you. If she's THAT worried throw in a gender studies or sociology minor...
Be grateful she is paying, but be sure to major in what you want. If she is a hippie she will be open to you doing what you want with your life. No reason to create a divide between you and her.
Hippies aren't like that anymore. My gf's parents are hippies and they think I'm going to business school to learn how to steal people's money, not an exaggeration. Doesn't help when we have clueless politicians like Bernie and Pocahontas spreading lies about the profession like its still 2009.
Yeah bro, your mom sounds like a NF, bottom tier, non-target, botique hippy GDI. Steal all her weed and sell it to your frat brahs for some extra cash. You're gonna have to lie to all your brahs so they think your dad is rich if you want to break into a top tier frat. If not, try taking a bid to a top tier frat at a botique campus with bottom tier greek life (somewhere gay like Villanova or Vanderbilt) and then lateral to an SEC school with BB greek life and maintain those same frat connections. If your mom ever threatens to expose your secret you might have to pay some people off to take care of her.
Whenever I read one of your posts, I die a little bit inside. Not because you are funny, but because your attempt at satire is so goddamn awful.
Two people I don't talk to: People with less money then me, people in worst frats than me and Snicker people with only 186 Silver Bananas.
Personal opinion: money / IB may not be the right path, but I'd rather make a mistake that leaves me well off than one that leaves me broke. My mom doesn't get it either, thinks Wall St is evil, Apple should pay more taxes, etc. I took some of my mom's advice earlier on in life and it COMPLETELY fucked my ability to be competitive in the job market out of UG. I take responsibility for my actions, but I learned the hard way that liberal arts majors and personal development do not translate well into opportunities in finance (albeit at a non-target, so not a 1:1 situation).
Just to be clear, if you pursue finance and declare a career-oriented major, will she pull your funding?
Personally, I'd just go ahead with your plan. Be a good son, and the relationship should sustain itself. If your career choices are enough for her to fracture the relationship that's on her - I wouldn't want to bear the burden of appeasing that kind of a toxic mind set.
Whatever challenges my mom had, when she realized I was able to move out, pay my own bills, not hit her up for money, and that I genuinely enjoyed my work, she changed her tune. The impressed looks from other parents at our synagogue when she'd say her son was an investment banker didn't hurt either :)
Sounds like rich hippie problems
he must be from boulder
How about this: just don't talk to her about it?
Not really.
She just needs to be educated. While all investment banks look the same, they all have different personalities. Each banks plays different roles in the financial world. Not all banks are pure mercenaries.
For example, founder of JP Morgan, George Peabody was so philanthropic that he is called "father of modern philanthropy" JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley therefore are still very philanthropic. They are also very active in "Impact Investment" Space. Impact investment is a type of investing where you are seeking investment opportunity for both profit and social returns at the same time. Competing with superior Goldman Sachs, these two companies are more and more using sustainability and impact investing to differentiate from its competitor. Morgan Stanley hosts prestigious "Sustainable Investing Challenge" every year. You can check it out there. http://sustainableinvestingchallenge.org/ Take a look at their past winner here- http://www.terralimpafund.com/
You should also take a look and tell your mother about super cool companies such as Leapfrog investment. They are private equity company who is a main players in the impact investing space. For example, they invested in much needed insurance sector in Africa. This not only helped so much for those African people but also had stellar financial return. I don't remember but it was like 20~30% return or something.
Even money has heart because ultimately, what moves money is people. If you are compassionate and smart enough, you can do good and profit at the same time.
Because this forum is filled with kids. I mean I'm not even that old, but have a great background for B-school because of my experience. A lot of people here sound like they just have none and all kinds of shit lands on these pages.
And I know hippies are passionate people, but at the end of the day, who gives a fuck? If you're planning to get married that's will be the only woman you'd be answering to. Get over your mommy early in life, grow a pair of balls, and chase your dream.
That fact that a mom is telling their son what to do is all I need to know. What does Dad think? Why are you letting other people control you.
If I had a child that obeyed my at 18, I'd be ashamed. Carve you're own path.
My mother doesn't like that I pursue a career in finance. She was also the one who convinced me all loans are bad and as a result I skipped out on student loans. The interest rate on the Swedish student loan is 0,34% and you have 25 years to pay it back. I would have had 50k usd (potentially more on a favourable savings account) for a property buy and it would have been the cheapest loan I'd ever have.
There are 2 morals to the story: Educate the fearful and don't always listen to your parents.
Tell her you finally agree with her and instead of IB you want to join a team, not just any team an "Elite and Diverse team." This team treats everyone as equals, and you do team building exercises that make you well-rounded and have the opportunity to travel the world. Tell her if she doesn't want you to pursue IB, that you'll join the Army/Marines.
See how reverse sociology works?
my dad doesn't like that I'm married to a yankee
my mom doesn't like that I voted for Romney
no one in my family likes that I work at a big bank
however...no one talks shit at Thanksgiving dinner
fuck 'em. they're your family, you have to love them, but you don't have to listen to them. your mom is paying for your tuition, and I'm betting she just cares that you make good grades. when she asks how you're doing, tell her what you're learning and how good your grades are, and only announce that you have a SA gig when you actually have it. discretion is key.
you'll find over time that your family can hate the industry but still love the people working in it. they'll tell you if they think it's warping you for the worse, but they're doing it out of love. you should hear them out, but you don't have to abide to them blindly. finance isn't UNICEF, but it's not al qaeda either.
despite what everyone here is saying, don't try to educate them before you get into the business. if they really want to know what you do, they'll ask. right now, you're a student. you are probably right about what bankers do, but in their minds, you don't know because you don't do it yet. I limit talking about my work with my family, just because I don't give a shit if I have their approval. they should love you unconditionally, and if they change that because you take a job at Morgan Stanley, fuck them. get em outta your life.
Came here to add this point, saw that thebrofessor beat me to it.
Much of modern political argument precipitates from the fallacy that if we could mutually educate each other, that if we were working from the same base of facts and reason, then we would agree--and that it's a knowledge gap that is the source of separation.
It's not true. (Feel free to read Thomas Sowell's A Conflict of Visions for more thoughts on the topic.) You can teach until you're blue in the face and just get more frustrated that you can't change someone's mind. I'm not saying to hide in secret or to lie, just that if you put faith in the idea that demystifying the profession to an uneducated observer will bring you peace, be ready to be disappointed.
First off, your mother will give you her advice and opinion whether you want it or not. That's part of the responsibility of being a parent. She carried you under her heart for 9 months, so she is entitled to it. Generally, I agree with the need to be well-rounded, but that is not an "academic" discipline. I would point out to her that being well-rounded means that you are aren't solely career focused and understand the need to try new things, have a life, interests and being exposed to things to more than one core subject. Tell her you also understand the value of an education, the current job market, and, if you really want to make a case, cite some employment statistics from the school for different majors. If banking is not your be-all/end-all, and you want to use it as a stepping stone for other things, then explain it to her like that. Banking is part of a longer career plan. 2 Years working for a big bank opens doors that other jobs won't. Likewise, if your plan is to get an MBA in a few years, explain that banking is often a very good entry point to get into top MBA programs and you plan to leverage the MBA to potentially do something different. This way you have the ability to go one and do something that might be "more fulfilling" in her mind. If you want to go down the road and have a career in banking, I don't have any advice to give you. It's an argument you may never win with her.
Ultimately, you need to do what is best for you. You need to remind her that this is your future and that you need to do what is best to set yourself up in the long run. It's your decision and you need to keep that in mind as well.
Here are some thoughts I would use as a starting point to sell the idea.
1) Investment bankers can also do a lot for small business owners. At a good mid-market shop (probably the best place to be ATM unless you're dead set on the megafund path), then you'll be adding an enormous amount of value to young business owners and startups. I still recall one of the first stories when I was looking at career paths that I got from a banker about how next weekend (at the time) he was going to be flying over to London to help a founder sell his business that the kids weren't interested in keeping, and it was because of his work that the owner was going to get a price that would secure his family's future for a long time.
2) Tell her you want to work for a social investing fund. Even then there's a good number of banks out there that focus on hippie-friendly causes such as Marathon Capital (cleantech focused investment bank). Look into a bit and get a good idea of what social impact investors do, then explain that working at an investment bank is how you make a difference in the world. You don't need to 100% believe it, you just need to believe it enough to be convincing. If you actually are capable of being an investment banker that last part should come naturally.
3) Just consider taking the debt if your own resume/grades/network give you good odds of success.
Some other posters made good points as well. Yes, there's some extremely shady shit that goes on in finance. You'd be a fool to deny that. That doesn't mean that you individually will be doing anything shady or that your firm will be. There' a LOT of great shops out there and departments where you aren't doing anything morally questionable, and I'd argue in general that IB is somewhat less shady than what goes on in PWM/S&T jobs.
This is absolutely true. One of the partners at my old firm talks about the relationships he built over 20+ years as the most gratifying part of his work. It's fun to get him rolling on one of the many times he was approached by a family-owned business that received an unsolicited buyout offer. By getting the business ready for sale, professionalizing the marketing, and making a competitive market, the sellers walked away with a major markup over the original bid.
I've met a bunch of these types of clients, and they love him. Truly, like a son, in some cases. They see someone who came and helped them do something they couldn't do on their own, and the result was providing a secure future for their family for several generations. Sure, the partner made some money in the process-- but he will look you dead in the eye and say it wasn't about the money, it was about the people, and I believe him.
Your mom is one of the most important people in your life. It the end she only has your best interests in mind, so if I were you, I would do my best to respect her and listen to her(which is sounds like you have) because I'm sure there is some truth to what she is saying.
With that being said, one of the most important things I learned in my late teens/early twenties is that one's parents are not always right about everything. They're just people who have made choices and had life experiences that have taken them down a certain path and it becomes your job to figure out when to listen to them and when to chart your own path.
Sounds like you're at that inflection point, banking might not be the Peace Corp, but it's also not an inherently evil job and can open up a lot of doors down the road which will hopefully lead to career happiness. No reason you'd shouldn't at least try it if piques your interest. I'd try and have a sit down with your mom, explain your point of view and go from there.
And as others have said, if you need to pick up a minor or 2nd major to appease her, that wouldn't be the worst idea. You might learn something in the process, plus hot girls study the humanities/liberal arts so its a win all around.
Tell her that if she doesn't get behind you she will never meet her grandkids.