Not getting any diversity programs- seeking advice
I was hoping to get some words of wisdom/any advice on what's wrong because I'm getting nervous for normal recruitment. I'm a (super) target school LGBTQ+ female with a 3.9 GPA, and a few relevant extracurriculars (I'm a liberal arts student so it's a little fluffy, but have an investment internship lined up). I've been taking a lot of rejections from the diversity programs, which I understand are super competitive, but I am worried what that means for me in the regular cycle. If anyone has any insight on what I'm doing wrong or how the process works, please let me know!
Edit: editing this to say I do, in fact, network. I am networking! But I started after submitting my apps/getting results back as I did not know you had to network specifically for the diversity programs. that is my bad! But no, I have never thought i am above networking. If anyone else stumbles on this thread in the future with similar issues, here are the best tips I received: check your resume with multiple people, and make sure you have multiple mentors! What worked for one person at one point may not work for you as diversity programs get more competitive. Network before/after submitting specifically for diversity apps, expand your search, make sure your Why Ib is strong, especially if you have a liberal arts background, and look over your diversity essays with other people to make sure you’re following the right structure! And finally, do NOT post on wso. You will get helpful tips, but a whole lot of miserable people that come on here after their 100 hour week looking to rage. Instead, talk to people that understand your whole situation and can offer you real advice! A five sentence post out of desperation will not get you answers, but emails to people you trust will :)
Have you been networking? If so, how is that going?
I was under the impression you didn't have to network for diversity programs! So I have just started the process. Am I wrong in that assumption? Please let me know if I am (firstgen, trying to figure all this out)
I hope you’re joking.
Also, there are rumors that this year has a huge uptick of candidates that identify as LGBTQ+ (self reported).
That’s why you messed up. Make sure to be prepared for full time recruiting from behavioral and technical perspective. You have to network hard. The analysts and associates have a looooooot of say with this stuff.
Btw, I’m first Gen too and my family’s combined income growing up was probably $40k and we lived in NYC. When I first told my parents about my job there were under the impression it was in a retail branch. It’s frankly not an excuse. Learn from it, move on, succeed. Not everyone in banking grew up with a silver spoon.
How did you find your mentors? Are they professors, bankers, alumni?
You don’t have to network for them.
Diversity programs, like the internships, can be unpredictable in who and why they pick people. If you can network with people it will definitely help but isn't 100% needed. Another aspect is to maximize the number of programs you are applying to.
If your resume doesn't have much to indicate interest in finance / the programs you are applying to it may be getting passed over. Try to highlight any relevant clubs, classes, or experiences you've had or any programs you've taken part in.
If you need to find more programs check out the below.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UWLpIsI8g9yLuEHMOtgJO_DWK9EYb5K…
Having helped in diversity hiring let me give you a view.
You are target school
You are Female
You are LGBTQ
All three big ticks for a diversity hire.
So the gap is your experience / interests / resume. One future internship isn't going to swing it for you.
People aren't picking you because your applications don't sound like a serious commitment. Networking will help as it will help get you past the first hurdle. ]
However, at the end of the day you could always just apply with everyone else and try to get in on merit if you are a good student......
Not OP, but would also like some advice. I’m set on IB as a career, but my past internships are more tech/Vc based. Would it be taboo to move my extracurricular above professional experience? My extracurricular is solidly financial industry-based.
Also top GPA, LGBTQ+ female from a target
I don't know about taboo, but I think you're under-selling your professional experience. VC experience is of course relevant to IB, and tech is probably the most respected non-finance experience because the assumption is that tech people are technical and hard working.
Widen your scope to mms if you haven’t already
hey I’m also an LGBTQ+ woman in banking so just wanted to give some insight as I never went through a diversity process. also did not go to a target but here are my tips for you.
1.) will echo sentiment above about resume/extracurriculars/interests, etc. granted, I was a business and econ student, but other than that, all of my internships and clubs were targeted towards finance and investing. if you can pick anything up finance related, do it. whether that be joining a club, scoring a school-year search fund internship, or creating relevant personal projects. that will show demonstrated interested.
2.) make sure you’re polished. ticking diversity boxes isn’t the free seat that people on this site make it out to be. I recommend talking to older peers who have gone through the process or looking to the behavioral section of the Wall Street Prep red book for how to structure them. you need to have these down 10000% because if you don’t have your why, your resume doesn’t matter. practice them as much as if not more than you would practice technicals. especially as a non-finance related major, once you start getting interviews, you’re going to have to show strong understanding in your technicals.
3.) Network, network, network again, and network some more. you do not have to network only with the diverse members of the groups/banks you’re targeting, but it can help to form a stronger connection. chances are if they’re seeing your name for the first time on your resume, it’s going to be a ding because you’re competing with kids that check all the same boxes you do that have also talked to people prior to screening. like I said, not a free seat, you still have to play the game like everyone else.
4.) Expand your search. I ended up at an MM and I am now in what I would venture to say is one of the most diverse groups on the street. its a great fit for me and I love hearing the experiences of the people I work with.
5.) Diversity hiring is not the end of the road. I never did it and I am very diverse, like you, and here now. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions and good luck!
Hi! I just wanted to say thank you so much for your response! Looking back at the resume I sent in with a clear head, the finance things I did have were definitely muddled/ not highlighted. I've made some serious structural changes and have been asking around for more help so hopefully that will help sharpen my narrative! I would love to ask you more about your experience at your bank/general questions about being LGBTQ+ in finance, but I don't know if I'm allowed to message you since you are anonymous. Please dm me!
I'll preface this by saying again that I help in diversity hiring initiatives and no doubt people will get triggered still.
I actually disagree. Diversity is a free seat to a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't be able to get there. This doesn't mean every diversity hire doesn't have merit
I've worked at a MM, A big bank and am now at a Bulge. I see lots of juniors hired over more qualified candidates in particular if they are female. Many are not picked because they are best candidate for the role.
The issue with any quota system is that it damages meritocracy. This is a fact. If you are picking people based on a criteria that doesn't include performance but instead their gender / race / sexuality then this is wrong.
I don't care what gender/race/sexuality the analysts / associates/ vps that work on a deal for me are. I just care that I get the best team I can get.
What annoys me around this thread is that all the posters asking for help have good grades and target schools but don't bother applying to the normal recruitment process. They don't network or put in the effort and then expect to walk in on a diversity program.
It's actually entitled and quite poor.
Agree. I’m heavily involved in campus recruiting and do interviews for both regular recruiting and our diversity program. It’s so frustrating time and time again giving an offer to a barely-qualified candidate because he or she checks a box at the expense of a slam-dunk candidate. I say this as a female who has been in banking for 8 years: we are doing no one a favor by hiring under qualified women (or whatever demographic). It doesn’t set them up for success and it advances the stereotype of incompetency for our diverse colleagues who may in fact be performing very strongly. it took me years to feel like people weren’t automatically assuming I was bad at my job because I’m a woman…and who could blame them, most of the women in IB were bad at their jobs!
im going to get MS to hell for this, but I don’t care
delete
Hey! Thanks for this information, it's really helpful. I am also an LGBTQ woman in IB. Do you have any advice on finding a community on the job, and whether or not you decided to come out?
Hey yes so I'm fully out with my group but I don't have a rainbow flag at my desk. I've been out since I was 17 (I'm 24 now) so it's very natural to me. I'm very low key about my sexuality because I think it's the least interesting thing about me quite frankly. I've just always been this way so if you're very "I'm gay and this is all I am" your experience may be different.
Unfortunately I don't have much advice to give you re: finding communities via shared experiences. Most banks have affinity groups you can join based on gender/sexuality but I'm not in any of them 1.) bc I do not have the time and 2.) because none of my peers/mentors are in them. For reference, I'll be the only woman in my office next month. As far as I know, none of the guys in the office are gay/out.
I've never had any pushback in the office about being gay either. Your experience may be different based on office/group but its 2023 and no one really cares as long as you're cool about it. When I talk about my weekends, if my gf is in town, I'll talk about what we did. I went to pride over the summer and talked about it when asked. Basic "what'd you do over the weekend?" type of banter. Just answer how you normally would.
My friends in the office treat me like a friend which is awesome because that's exactly what I want. I think there's this misconstrued idea that everyone in finance is a far right homophobe who beats off to Patrick Bateman edits and every gay person is decked out in full drag and booty shorts (nothing wrong with that, just not office appropriate) blasting Lady Gaga and carrying a 50 ft gay flag. In reality, 98% of people you'll come across, especially in finance, are just neutral normal people in the middle. Now I'm very outspoken about gay and women's rights, because well I'm a woman and gay and I like having rights. But I know better than to debate my right to get married with the 60 year old Bible Beater MD because it's inappropriate and not worth my time.
People care way more about your work quality and production. If you suck, they won't like you because you suck. Not because you're gay or a woman. Act like a normal human being, be polite and friendly, and do good work and no one will bat an eye. They'll treat you like everyone else which is exactly what you want.
This thread makes me sick.
For me it’s the entitlement
Don't take the message wrong here but if this is the sentiment of others applying I'm appalled with the sense of entitlement. You 100% need to network whether you're the most diverse person out there or just another white / asian male on the block. Your GPA is great but there is no free seat given for a career, quite frankly seeing many people taking these free seats are the ones to get cut either not receiving a return offer or are bottom bucket. I'm pretty sure many people will give you advice to network, but applying as LGBTQ+ won't cut it as much now because many people will lie about sexuality and race to get ahead, this bites them in the end though. You still qualify as diversity as a girl but there are many other women out there that are driven and network super hard being from a target or non-target for a chance to get in. Might be a little tough on the tone but that's my advice.
Oh no, I totally agree on the networking part for recruiting, I was just told that it wasn't necessary for diversity apps so I started networking after submitting the applications. I wish I did know it was part of the diversity process and I'm sorry for the confusion, I do know you obviously have to network!
What liberal arts school is a (super)target?
My dear girl, why don’t you just try breaking in on your own merits?
Hey that’s racist and ageist!
just thinking about it, a "Super" target needs a diversity program to get into IB. How about the non targets? are they fucked?
on a side note about diversity: my group has been literally trying to hire women and still can't seem to hire them because the good ones which we identified are usually swamped with offers.
Diversity to get into school, diversity again to get the job, and diversity yet again when it comes time to get promoted. It can really crowd out anything else a person is doing to develop over time.
Imagine being non-diverse at a non-target. I would die to have any one of the three privileges OP rattled off to start.
I (URM/Male) applied to and was accepted into several diversity programs during my SA recruitment cycle. I'll talk about a couple of the things that I experienced during that time that might be why you are not experiencing success. For reference, I went to a LAC and studied a non-economics discipline.
- Finding the right people. At my target, the recruitment process for these programs was managed by the recruitment team for my College. That is to say, the alumni of our school alone made the final call about who was getting into these programs. You may be networking with the wrong folks. We have a few MDs that are making all the calls and if you do not speak with them you are not going to be selected.
- Interest. I prepped technical and behavioral questions beforehand such that I could have made it through a standard interview without much effort. The people I spoke with appreciated this fact and also liked that I read the news and stayed current on markets/business news. If you are talking about the things you will do and not the things that you already do, I think you are behind curve and likely getting dinged in favor of other candidates who might have less impressive stats but have the drive and self-discipline to do this on their own already. The diverse folks at my target who got these spots had clubs, internships, and were kinda nerds about finance in ways that the nepotism kids don't have to be.
- Competition. You go to a "(super)target" which likely means that there are way applicants out there than you think. If you think about it, there is a finite amount of spots the banks can offer your school and likely a large pool of diverse candidates if you include all categories (women, URM, LGBTQ+) which means that competition for these programs is quite high. There are a lot of people who use SEO, MLT, self-sourced multiple internships, and networked extensively that might be tough to beat out for these few spots. You likely stand a better chance in the typical recruiting cycle when you can differentiate yourself from other candidates by showing that you are adequately prepared and have a story about how you are personally passionate about this stuff.
Hope this helps. I'm not saying that you aren't doing any of this, but I hope this post helps you reflect on what strategies are working for you and what is not working for you so you can lock in a role in the future.
This is like complaining that your CoD aimbot isn't working.
It truly is a numbers game. Network, write good applications/good resume, and be fearless with who you reach out to. Reach out to people with similar affinities to you as well.
If you are a solid candidate, chances are you will land somewhere ~ even without a diversity program! Feel free to DM for any help.
Here’s an idea. Try to get a job on your own merit instead.
Lol.. if people like you make it into finance, just know deep down you’re only there because you’re diversity, and there’s hundreds of white/Asian kids who can blow you out of the water but you got the spot because of our country’s political state.
Tbh the only Asian guys I’ve seen who don’t get into IB are because they have 3.4 or lower GPA or low social IQ and make everyone uncomfortable
I really don’t understand what these diversity programs are looking at when reviewing apps.
Lol maybe ur not diversity enough. Have u not seen the diversity hierarchy/pyramid?!
Really? You’re holding pocket rockets and you’re complaining that you aren’t set up for a royal flush?
ever thought that maybe you should get in your own merits vs pushing out people who are more qualified?
How do you recommend you structure the essays for diversity programs?
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