Dear WSO Community,
I am a finance student at a semi-target with a background of corporate finance at boutiques and private equity and I have a GPA of 3.3/4.0. Last summer, I managed to land IBD interviews for Barclays, Citi, Standchart, Rothschild, Lazard. However, I fell short of getting selected for summer even after going to the 4th/5th round and superdays. I am in my final year of studies and am contemplating applying for IBD summer 2020 at MMs and BBs again or alternatively apply full time in other areas such as Wealth Management/Private Banking/Corporate Banking at BBs.
Let's say i choose to forfeit my passion to purse IBD. Where else can I go? "where do the IBD rejects go?"
Would appreciate advice and happy to hear experiences from everyone.
- Lost Monkey
To hell.
Okay, maybe not hell, but a (former) friend of mine went to Northwestern Mutual which is pretty much the same thing.
Non-certified user base of the WSO
So many things you can do. You young guns think that IB (or your first or any job) defines you. You'll learn it doesn't. Consider it from a different angle. What do you really like about IB? If it's the money, you can get there many different ways. If it's a road to something else, you may want to start down that path directly. If you really wanted to do IB as a career, get something finance related at a F500. Work your butt off and do a great job. Get a MBA forma solid school (doesn't have to be M7) and reset for IB recruiting. Come in as an associate and go from there.
This.
The world is your oyster. I was definitely one of those kids who didn't get in, but really wanted to (if only WSO had been around...) Even in my day it was very competitive since tech was not hot yet and finance was...Of the 400 kids applying, the same 20 got all of the interviews and the same 10 got all of the offers and the rest of us had scraps (this does not include connected types who didn't do the standard process).
How many of the 20 are still in banking today? Very very few. I'd guess 5 or less. Some have done very well and moved up in PE/HF but most have left the industry (finance) for good. Some went to law school, med school, industry, corporate, started businesses, IT, you name it.
Rest assured to anyone on this site: Finance still pays well, very well, especially as a junior. But is a former shadow of itself. You will most likely not get filthy rich sitting in a bank or in HF/PE anymore (that was the promise when I was in college and recruiting). Fees/comp especially at mid and senior levels is way down at the former and there are too many of the latter such that its tough to move up and returns have been subpar, especially in most HFs and there is lots of fee pressure from investors.
Sure you can beat the odds and make it, no doubt. But you can do that in a lot of places and not in finance. Otherwise much of the point of a junior role in finance/banking is to learn, earn, move up/out, network and (if you stay) get a relatively comfortable life making a few hundred grand pushing paper around (that is really what most of what we do is in the grand scheme of things.)
Personally, I didn't get in, so I traveled, studied more, stumbled into PE in Asia (not a direct shop) and took it from there. Most don't get in, OP, so if it doesn't work you can find another way to get in or do/discover something else that you will hopefully enjoy/be good at.
Good Luck
Getting the role was luck and pure circumstance. I assure you.
All one can do is his or her best. Luck and timing are such huge factors in life. It’s one of the lessons I learned in that gig and have continued to learn. There are lots of MDs, Partners PMs etc who just aren’t that smart or clever. That’s not to say they are not capable or stupid (though some are but that’s like in any job). But they may have come at a hot market or had a great boss that pulled them up or have gotten lucky on a few things or whatever. Or they have or had some skill that was super in demand or in short supply at the time. That’s life.
Good Luck
You’ll be fine. I was one of the ones that didn’t make it into IBD...for a flurry of reasons. Came from a background that didn’t exactly prep me well for the recruiting process and by the time I figured out I wanted banking the people who’d been planning it for years were far ahead of me in the process. My friends got internships and eventually banking jobs at GS and other bulge brackets, and the inferiority complex is real. I had banking as the gold standard and felt like a failure. I was getting paid half of what they were and thought I was toast. Now four years later after busting my ass and many detours I’m in strategy and business intel at a bulge bracket. Very few of them are still in finance at all they burned out...and my comp caught up eventually (close at least, once you’re well into six figures an extra 10-20% comp for twice the work is a poor trade off), plus I’ve worked half the hours they did this entire time so I actually have time to travel and spend the money. It sucks pretty bad for awhile but if you keep working hard it works out anyways. Success is determined by what you put into it not your title.
It gets real interesting when peers who never did IB start making orders of magnitude more than your peers in IB. Might be a good idea to know what those are before fighting for the losing horse....
I would definitely not lose out on hope if your goal is to get into IB, though it would be prudent to level set on the note that it might be challenging (not impossible) to get into a Bulge Bracket. As others have mentioned, MM firms generally have spots on Ad hoc basis as do boutiques, so networking is definitely a good route if the traditional path hasn't worked out. Usually I've seen folks who networked efficiently over a period of 3-6 months usually landed something as long as their net was cast wide. From there it's alot easier to lateral given the similarity in skillsets (would definitely look to read up on Sil 's background and lateral guide. Sans banking, any form of role that involves some kind of analysis work like valuations, Big 4 TAS, Big 4 corporate finance, F500 corporate development, boutique asset management (though I'd argue that this is a nice spot to have regardless!) should position you well.
All this said, it's definitely not a real issue if you strike out on IB as your first job out of college. The great thing about a career is that it's not linear most of the time, and it's a very long period . I was speaking to my VP during my last few months at my old firm and he told me that of his class, perhaps a third are still in banking from what he's seen, with others moving on to a litany of different roles (i.e., Sales; product management; strategy; F500 roles in corp dev; strat; ops, etc.). My philosophy is always that the bright and driven individual's CV will always even out over a larger sample size, even if it's not reflected immediately at the outset. Put in a good faith effort to achieve the goal that you're looking to target, and if you don't reach it, there's no doubt that you will have put yourself in an excellent position for the next move, or towards a top MBA to help you grease the skids and get to IB ultimately. Best of luck.
I think the one thing I have mentioned and some others have wisely alluded to is this...
In the long run the vast majority of IBD people become IBD rejects. Ie. for various reasons get spit out of the industry. It's either a bad economic cycle, the banks cut, dealflow is low, the person hates it, isn't good at his/her job, family/health reasons etc etc etc.
For every MD one sees in IBD there are many many of those who have fallen (or jumped off). Finally, do not forget the element of luck in all of this.
We all seem to forget luck and those that have made it in this industry (across verticals and asset classes) are above all, survivors. That MD you see? He/she was not always a superstar. They were once junior and needed some breaks, like a good boss, or a good market, or to be protected/avoid the axe/layoffs, someone to stick a neck out and promote them/drag them up, work in a good group with solid deal flow and make revenue etc etc etc. Think about a 45 year old guy in some coverage group. If he started out of college, that's 23 years in the industry. He/she has survived the dot com bust, the Asian Financial Crisis, the Global Financial Crisis, European Sovereign Debt Crisis, a bad market for their industry, various layoffs, political maneuverings, downsizings/upsizings, restructurings, long nights, family/friends issues, health issues stress, changing landscapes etc.
Of course some of the above can be termed as sacrifices as well. And alongside luck you need to sacrifice a lot. Few, in the end are willing to do so and even fewer find fulfillment in it (this is not me saying don't try to be MD or whatever - just that there is a price that has to be paid).
Good Luck