20 Comments
 

You went from glory to misery in 3 weeks.

[quote]The HBS guys have MAD SWAGGER. They frequently wear their class jackets to boston bars, strutting and acting like they own the joint. They just ooze success, confidence, swagger, basically attributes of alpha males.[/quote]
 

I think if you network aggressively you should be able to find something for FT/another internship to keep you going. You don't need the Duke name on your resume, and since you come from a target you should be able to find alumni who can help you out.

BTW 25 isn't ancient for an analyst - think about guys who spend time in the armed forces, then come back and go to school. Those guys are definitely not unheard of in IB and they are at least 25.

MM IB -> Corporate Development -> Strategic Finance
 
SECfinanceI think if you network aggressively you should be able to find something for FT/another internship to keep you going. You don't need the Duke name on your resume, and since you come from a target you should be able to find alumni who can help you out.

BTW 25 isn't ancient for an analyst - think about guys who spend time in the armed forces, then come back and go to school. Those guys are definitely not unheard of in IB and they are at least 25.

That's comforting. I will have just turned 26 when I finish my MSF program in 2013 and will be looking for IB Analyst / ER Associate roles. While I have met some ageist firms, it's good to know not all are. Plus I think I could spin why I would be a better analyst than some fresh 22 year old with only a Bacherlor's degree and undergrad internship.
My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
 

Didn't someone post something on here a few weeks ago about Duke MMS program being subpar? Was a disgruntled, probably biased post, but I would still think twice before dropping 50k on a possibly subpar program.

I like your options 2 and 3. Seems like with some experience under your belt and a good target network this could be done.

The other option you didn't mention is doing something outside IB for a year or two to save some money, get experience, and set you up for a MFIN or MBA program. Have you thought about doing something in TAS or credit? Might be a little easier to break in, especially with some IB experience. Also, you can always to try land one of these gigs and keep networking/looking on the side.

 
Best Response

I was in a similar position (got into Duke MMS) but didn't think twice about going there. it was not worth it for me. I think you are better off at this boutique (maybe try to continue interning there for a longer period?) There are a lot of boutiques in the southeast hiring analysts/interns. Volunteering and working for WSO is not a bad idea either to fill in the gaps. You also have great academic credentials so I don't think you that bad off, esp since you graduated early.

btw Wells Fargo is currently hiring corporate banking analyst aggressively, while not IB it is worth looking at. check them out. They hire for IB lateral hires every now and then too if you are interested in CLT.

 

3.8+ and you didn't apply to MIT's MSF? Have you considered looking for another internship or FT in some other finance position that would be relevant to IB (like Corp Fin/Corp Banking) for a year then going into Princeton's MSF? That may kill your MBA prospects since I believe it is a 2 yr. program but the placement is outstanding (alot of associate placements as opposed to analysts at the 1 yr MSF). You made your first huge error coming from a non-finance background and not applying for MSF instead of Duke MMS (MIT, Claremont, WUSTL, Tulane, Vandy, and Villanova all consistently place into MM/BB IB). I say grind it out and if you don't get a FT position, volunteer and work for WSO if you can, and look towards an MSF from one of the schools mentioned above (ideally MIT/Claremont), not Duke's MMS. It will be hard without more finance experience beyond your current internship to get into Princeton but you should apply there as well if it comes to that.

 

Wow, thank you all for your responses! I'll give everyone SBs.

SonnyZHYou went from glory to misery in 3 weeks.
This is what happens when you receive your Duke financial aid info and it's many thousands of dollars less than you had expected. It's nice that they make you commit before they tell you about aid. I turned down $30K and living expenses covered at Wake Forest's MA Management program to go to Duke........
oldmansacksI was in a similar position (got into Duke MMS) but didn't think twice about going there. it was not worth it for me. I think you are better off at this boutique (maybe try to continue interning there for a longer period?) There are a lot of boutiques in the southeast hiring analysts/interns. Volunteering and working for WSO is not a bad idea either to fill in the gaps. You also have great academic credentials so I don't think you that bad off, esp since you graduated early.

btw Wells Fargo is currently hiring corporate banking analyst aggressively, while not IB it is worth looking at. check them out. They hire for IB lateral hires every now and then too if you are interested in CLT.

Yeah, I spoke to my MD today and was told that I can stay at the boutique for as long as I want (within reason), I just won't be paid. The hours are, however, pretty flexible and I can work on the side to recoup some of that cash money. This seems like a very real option, considering I'll mostly likely learn a hell of a lot more working at the IB than I will at MMS (all things being equal). Of course I am worried about missing OCR, but I think I can make up for it on my own. And I save $50K.

I'm located in Charlotte, so if you have any advice about Wells Fargo's corporate banking analyst position (or someone that I should talk to), you'll be a god among men.

BigBucks3.8+ and you didn't apply to MIT's MSF? Have you considered looking for another internship or FT in some other finance position that would be relevant to IB (like Corp Fin/Corp Banking) for a year then going into Princeton's MSF? That may kill your MBA prospects since I believe it is a 2 yr. program but the placement is outstanding (alot of associate placements as opposed to analysts at the 1 yr MSF). You made your first huge error coming from a non-finance background and not applying for MSF instead of Duke MMS (MIT, Claremont, WUSTL, Tulane, Vandy, and Villanova all consistently place into MM/BB IB). I say grind it out and if you don't get a FT position, volunteer and work for WSO if you can, and look towards an MSF from one of the schools mentioned above (ideally MIT/Claremont), not Duke's MMS. It will be hard without more finance experience beyond your current internship to get into Princeton but you should apply there as well if it comes to that.
This is fantastic advice.

I did not apply to MIT's MSF program (or other MSF programs) because I figured I wouldn't qualify with a liberal arts degree. But now that I've really researched the MMS program and talked to more people about it -- eek! I can take pre-reqs, if necessary, for an MSF program at UNC online and pay like $2K total to get them all out of the way. Now that I know that I can stay at my boutique for a long time (maybe even for an entire year), do you think that changes my chances for Princeton's MSF?

One other thing to keep in mind, my resume has been floating around with Duke on it already...if I change my mind and shoot for these firms again, there is a chance that they'll remember and then I have to explain why I decided to forego going. I think it's easy to explain, but some people might view it negatively...though the UNC fans around here won't mind. =)

 

I realized I wanted a program that was more focused on quant and analytics as opposed to management theory, explained. If you get into MIT no one is going to care that you passed on Duke. Princeton has the most math heavy program so more math classes increases your odds, Calc 1/2, Statistics, Econometrics, Linear Algebra, Mico/Macroecon. Those classes should set u up nicely for most MSFS (not MFEs) but Princeton might require more.

 
BigBucksI realized I wanted a program that was more focused on quant and analytics as opposed to management theory, explained. If you get into MIT no one is going to care that you passed on Duke. Princeton has the most math heavy program so more math classes increases your odds, Calc 1/2, Statistics, Econometrics, Linear Algebra, Mico/Macroecon. Those classes should set u up nicely for most MSFS (not MFEs) but Princeton might require more.
Yeah, this is assuming I do a program next year. If I start interviewing for FT positions in the next few months, people that have already seen my resume are going to say "wait, aren't you supposed to be at Duke?". Explanation: I was presented with the opportunity to work in investment banking for an extended period of time, and I knew that I would learn more on the job than in the program. Or something like that?
 

Agreed with all of the above posters, you made a pretty huge mistake by just applying to Duke's MMS program. It's akin to going to Harvard to get an MPA, and trying to do HF/IB. Sure the Duke/ Harvard name is great but that's not what the programs are geared towards. You wouldn't get into MIT/ Princeton, because of your lack math classes, but you could easily have gotten into WUSTL, Vandy, Tulane, all of which place very well in IB despite not having the Duke name.

 

Personally speaking as someone who applied/was accepted to Villanova/Vandy/WashU MSF and Duke MMS, I do think Duke MMS has the best recruiting out of those programs. Obviously Princeton/MIT are in their own tier.

However, given your background (3.8, non-ivy target, boutique IB internship), I do believe you could break into IB without a MSF/MMS program. Aiming for boutiques/MM's offcycle FT hires (and regular recruiting once that comes around) will probably yield some decent results. I've landed plenty of off-cycle interviews for IB and my background wasn't even as good as yours.

In my opinion, since money is an issue, I'd stick it out in my internship and network a lot at boutiques/MM's for a FT position. In terms of people at Duke seeing you resume, I seriously doubt that people would actually remember/it would affect you come recruiting season.

 

Did you interview for off-cycle in the US? I am trying to look for one, but they aren't for the US

brutalglidePersonally speaking as someone who applied/was accepted to Villanova/Vandy/WashU MSF and Duke MMS, I do think Duke MMS has the best recruiting out of those programs. Obviously Princeton/MIT are in their own tier.

However, given your background (3.8, non-ivy target, boutique IB internship), I do believe you could break into IB without a MSF/MMS program. Aiming for boutiques/MM's offcycle FT hires (and regular recruiting once that comes around) will probably yield some decent results. I've landed plenty of off-cycle interviews for IB and my background wasn't even as good as yours.

In my opinion, since money is an issue, I'd stick it out in my internship and network a lot at boutiques/MM's for a FT position. In terms of people at Duke seeing you resume, I seriously doubt that people would actually remember/it would affect you come recruiting season.

 

Yes, in the US. There are always banks hiring, no matter how bad the market is. Maybe it's not BB, but there will always be MM's/boutiques hiring. It's about positioning yourself and being at the right place at the right time. Just keep pounding the pavement and networking

blueslord2910Did you interview for off-cycle in the US? I am trying to look for one, but they aren't for the US
brutalglidePersonally speaking as someone who applied/was accepted to Villanova/Vandy/WashU MSF and Duke MMS, I do think Duke MMS has the best recruiting out of those programs. Obviously Princeton/MIT are in their own tier.

However, given your background (3.8, non-ivy target, boutique IB internship), I do believe you could break into IB without a MSF/MMS program. Aiming for boutiques/MM's offcycle FT hires (and regular recruiting once that comes around) will probably yield some decent results. I've landed plenty of off-cycle interviews for IB and my background wasn't even as good as yours.

In my opinion, since money is an issue, I'd stick it out in my internship and network a lot at boutiques/MM's for a FT position. In terms of people at Duke seeing you resume, I seriously doubt that people would actually remember/it would affect you come recruiting season.

 
Cola Coca^Just make sure you don't sound cocky/arrogant either.
I think I come off pretty humble in interviews. Speak when spoken to, ask poignant questions and let them talk about themselves seems to work pretty well.
My name is Nicky, but you can call me Dre.
 

Thanks for all the words all.

I've all but decided (a.k.a. I need to pick up the phone and make the call) to reneg on the MMS program to stick around at my boutique. Love the people I work with, love what I'm doing, and I think the experience is far more valuable. I feel like with the target background, a high GPA, and good work exp, if I can't get a full-time IBD offer at the MM level, something is seriously wrong.

 

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