everyone in IB grinds. what if u just dont. Like…will they fire u?
Work life is insane and i dont really get it. Why not just make time for dinner, head to the gym. Clock off during normal hours like nothing past 1 am?
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Yes. Ex-colleague got fired for this exact reason. Also, it’s highly unlikely that every banker in your firm will switch to this mindset so you wouldn’t want to get outshined by the other analysts just because you want to have a life. It’s extremely sad to say but that’s just the industry. And banks won’t adopt this mentality as a whole because then they’ll just start getting beat out for mandates and close less deals and in turn make less money so that doesn’t make sense.
But like… why does it matter? Seems like only if ur recruiting PE??
Are you asking why it matters if you get fired?
Was she fired at the end of her Analyst stint or prematurely? I'm thinking if you're recruiting for PE or any other job and don't plan to stay in IB long-term, you're going to leave anyway, so it doesn't matter if they plan to fire you at the end of your stint, cause you'll have your next job lined up already.
Little more complicated than that. Don’t wanna share too many details for anonymity reasons but was at the tail-end of the analyst stint fs. Only reason she/he didn’t get fired prematurely was because he had something lined up. Don’t know for sure but probably would have gotten fired even if she/he didn’t have anything lined up but can’t know for sure. And again, little more complex than that but dont want to get too specific because some of the details were pretty unique to the situation.
wouldn’t want to get outshined by the other analysts just because you want to have a life.“
this implies your main purpose in life is doing better at your job than your peers?
No of course not there’s so much more to life than that but if you are working for a good shop it’s almost always the case that you are going to have to grind like crazy if you want to stand out and progress in your career.
.
Why is this funny
BUT WHY???
I just can't stand leisure. Even in leisure I think about doing things. So work easily fits my need to keep myself busy. So to answer, not everyone might be a good fit. You need either lots of stamina or anxiety do be inclined to work +12 hours a day.
"Just can't stand fucking my girlfriend or having a good time with the boys - I am only satisfied if I can turn some more comments" - don't be like this guy fellas
gay
goy of the year spiritually enslaved by capitalism
and yet you seem to also want to accumulate shekels... for you're here on WSO... dearly looking to get one of those sought after rat race roles… to accumulate… ’em beloved shekels.
or nay?
Comparing siegecraft to iterating discussion materials. Helpful to see that your original point, already a bit sad, was actually informed by delusion.
I think the broader misconception in this discussion is the attempt to force everyone into a single behavioral model. People exist on a spectrum from hyperactive or restless to more naturally balanced.
Advising balanced individuals to grind excessively and telling restless individuals to slow down and settle into balance is misaligned with how they operate (or want to operate). Worse to believe that somehow one's life philosophy is superior to the other, and hence completley disregard any other as invalid.
So what's the purpose of those discussions, if I may ask? Gather in a single thread everyone that dislikes grinding (self-selection bias)? Then GG, mission accomplished, time to move on with our day.
It’s a crabs in a bucket mentality shared industry wide.
But it’s rooted in real competitive pressure - both from competing with coworkers/analysts for top bucket, competing with other banks for deals.
Only solution is to leave the industry tbh
100% agree
What kind of post is this..? You do what you’re told in this industry as quickly and as accurately as possible, or else you will not be here long. Feel like that’s common sense
check out this article from The Economist from 2016: "Why do we work so hard? Our jobs have become prisons from which we don’t want to escape" helped me get through my IB analyst days
The Economist: why do we work so hard
Did you skip the game theory lecture of Econ 101?
Why people work at all, why not stay home all day
I also… confuse by this issue…
Tbh if i had a trust fund + rent/food paid for I would just fuck off and try to start my own business / bool at home / abroad.
this writing… strong... very good… i congratulat
Here is my personal experience as an analyst at 3 IBs:
Moelis: staffer / firm actively tracks analysts time and location and screen time/ activity status via skype messaging (I was there in mid 2010s) to make sure you are hitting your target of 100 hour work weeks (obviously they will allow and encourage more during important deal moments). 100 hours was considered full capacity. Anyone working less was generally staffed in more work even if just endless pitch deck / model creation for clients as a marketing effort or business development to volunteer for clients Moelis wants to get paid from down the road.
Yes there were some analysts who seemed to find corners to hide and sneak out of it (I only know from hearsay and my own 3rd party observations) but they were generally out of the firm within 2 years. Call it being fired, call it being promoted externally (PE, etc), or them quitting. That was the vibe. Senior level folks are still expected to work hard and all but they are not expected to be in the office 100 hours a week. MDs there still have intense hours for their job from what it looked like but different
HL: have definitely seen people be pushed out (I.e. not given promotion offers and saying they can’t stay in their current role / title) and rarely (and quietly) fired. They also have hard work expectations. People who don’t meet those are generally not staying in the firm long
Small regional NYC LMM bank: same deal. Not hitting the hours / work product requirements, being shown the door.
These are economic machines. It’s a bank. Not a charity. Like I heard from a lawyer who works for the NYC government in evictions for the city / landlords: “if you aren’t paying the rent, you can’t live there”. If you are sitting in a high-paying seat/job and not being profitable to the organization, you probably can’t stay there long.
Good luck
This is under the premise that the goal of IB is IB, no?
wrong place
"I don’t want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers” that’s the top-down model created by Rockefeller. But here’s the catch: everyone from Musk to an investment banker is just a worker performing for someone else’s approval. No one escapes.
You work hard to create optionality in your life later. If you throw in the towel in your mid 20s you will be relegated to a corporate drone and work for peanuts until age 60. Grow some balls and suck it up for a few years
^ Agreed. If you don’t want to do the IB grind then you should start a business.
Social Media / Info Products
AI Automation
Life Insurance Sales
All 3 of the above are easy to get into and can generate you tons of cash quickly. Godspeed.
Optionality later? Look at the MDs and partners. They're still grinding, still performing for clients, still scared of losing mandates. When exactly does 'later' arrive?
Yes but being an MD is the only job in the world where you can be in the bottom quartile of your profession and still earn seven figures.
In my case being in the top quartile I could totally coast and make 1.5-2 or I could grind and make 7-10+, that’s optionality
Surprised no one mentioned 'ambition' so far
don't get surprised, it's self selection bias of low testosterone guys
Outside of this website, literally nobody cares what your job title is or where you went to school. There are unemployed content creators on social media with 100K followers making 3-5x more than the average MBA associate per year, with significantly less work. The only reason anyone does this is because they think they're better than people.
“Clock off during normal hours like nothing past 1am”
Lol this fucking industry
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