Why is IB recruiting still elitist to the point of being stupid but corporate law has changed? (UK)
So for a long while the whole Target, Semi target non target thing in the Uk has become stupid. You could get A*AA and go to Manchester for Finance/Econ and stand a slim chance of IB or have AAB go to Warwick for a less competitive course like Art and take priority. This to anyone can see is not really meritocratic. Whereas in corporate law yes there is Oxbridge bias especially at Slaughters but for most of the magic circle law firms things are a lot more meritocratic. Get a low 2.1 at UCL for history and have AAA wont put you at a big advanrage over the York Law student with AAA and a first when it come to getting a TC. Yes you see the top universities more represented but that's because they're actually the best people. Whereas for IB you will get average people at target who get the jobs over exceptional people at non targets evey year. I just think IB is stupid when corporate law which in the Uk often pays more or at least the same is not as stupidly prestige obsessed and is giving the jobs to the best people, no just those with certain branding. IMO it's fine to care about prestige when you're after the best people but is someone doing a Mickey mouse course at Warwick or UCL with mid Alevels really smarter than your Durham AAA students?
I don’t think that is necessarily true - most people who go to these targets have AAA at least at the minimum. Also I think it’s harder to get an offer to study there so that selection already acts like a filter. The notion that a top student getting good grades doesn’t directly correlate at being good at the job this is coming from an econ student at a non target RG.
Debatable
del
IB has hundreds of applications per position so HR has to filter out the applications somehow. The model of filtering out applications from non-targets has historically worked pretty well for the banks so if something isn't broken why fix it? In my anecdotal experience the very few people I have seen break into the industry from non-targets actually massively struggled and ended up crashing and burning. My question for you is if someone knows they want to do IB and they are as smart as you say, why not just attend a target to give themselves a better chance?
Realistically no one is getting into IB with an Art / Mickey Mouse degree, even when its from a target. You are also underestimating the typical A level grades of someone at a target who makes it into IB, your average Oxbridge/LSE Econ or Imperial engineering kid (lets be honest - the vast majority coming from UK universities into IB are from these sorts of highly prestigious and competitive courses rather than humanities courses) will be studying more like 4 or 5 A levels rather than 3, and achieving multiple A*s, something more like A*A*A*AA as against the A*AA like you suggest.
You may not like it but the reality is that the investment banks are elitist institutions because they can afford to be. At my bank I was told they received around 15,000 applications for c. 50 spots on the SA program. Why would they spend time looking at the kid with AAA from Manchester when you have say 500+ kids from targets with A*A*A*A or similar to pick from?
I agree with your analysis and it makes sense.
How do you think firms look at someone from a semi target (Bristol/Bath/Durham) with a top masters (hec/bocconi)?
Does not having a target undergrad still hurt you?
Assuming the rest of your CV is good I wouldn't expect major issues getting through initial screening but the bar is set a notch above in interviews as a masters student as you will have had more time to get experience (i.e. off-cycle internships, other relevant experience like big 4 transaction services internships etc.). The expected standard for technicals will also generally be higher.
Ultimately, IB is more about being a good advertiser than being realistic with substance – so a prestigious school NAME take precedence over smarter people with better pre-university grades than some in the targets. The point of IB recruiting isn't to take the smartest or the most deserving in a meritocratic way—it's to sell perception; IB isn't intellectually demanding anyways, so why obsess over the fact that people with better pre-university grades than some Oxbridge students are not strictly chosen. Law is generally a slightly harder course than many courses—that's why university name doesn't make a difference—it is professional courses that need more PRECISE obsession with real academic merit.
Law firms have been growing and becoming more profitable. NQ comp has doubled in the L10Y. This has not happened to the same extent in banking. So law firms can recruit from lower-tier schools, cover post-grad tuition fees, and hand out £20k maintenance grants because their firms are making it rain and the incremental cost is a rounding error to PEP. Meanwhile, banks have been cutting across the board (NY training, associate promotion bonuses, fruit bowls, etc.) and (especially European banks) have been struggling to earn their target ROE. There is simply no budget to be non-elitist.
Haha you have to be kidding me, go check out the trainee lineup at Kirkland/Skadden/DPW or whatever etc and then come back let me know how many of them read Law at Oxbridge (or LSE/UCL at very minimum...)
True but the Magic Circle/British firms hire loads of random non-targets, given their larger intakes and diversity/social mobility policies
Becuz the clients don't care about which subject the yapping banker studied at uni.
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