Wanted to know what people think on this. Was speaking with someone and they view an investment banker as basically a VP/MD. Those who speak to clients and try to get deals where as associates and analyst just do the grunt work and they are not investment bankers. Just on a team on investment banking. Who else views this like this? “Analyst shouldn’t call them selves bankers”.
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Sounds like what a new VP with imposter syndrome would say. The things people say to convince themselves of their status...
IB analyst
Above all else: If you work in investment banking you are an investment banker. If we’re purely speaking about terminology then this is extremely simple.
Despite him putting it in a dumb way, his underlying point isn’t totally incorrect. Only once you get somewhat senior do you really start to understand how deals work from start to finish, and dealmaking is the actual core of IB not financial modeling. So yeah there are important aspects of the industry you don’t get a really rich appreciation of without experience, but it’s more or less the same as every job and definitely doesn’t preclude you from being an investment banker. Random 9-5 people in the finance department at F500s don’t really have a rich understand of finance for their first few years doing basic budgeting work either, doesn’t mean they aren’t financial analysts
An argument can be made that until you hit VP or above, the job you are doing an an analyst/associate is vastly different from the job/work being done by the VP/Director / MD.
An MD in a banking group doesn't do any modeling or financial analysis...doesn't format pitch books...doesn't spend hours researching comps (they generally know how because they did that stuff many years ago...but they don't do it now). An MD spends all their time talking with and advising clients (CEOs and CFOs) and thinking of ideas to generate business, and staffing out work to the teams....so that they, the MD, can do the investment banking work.
However, if you go over to S&T....an analyst/associate on a trading desk is trading...performing the same action as the MD on that trading desk. The only difference is
1) the MD has larger risk limits - they can trade bigger positions and are allowed to lose more money
2) generally, the MD will make more $$ trading...have a higher P&L...and generally a higher % right vs wrong trades, presumably because their experience has made them better traders.
So, in this type of comparison, an argument can be made than an analyst in an IB group is not a banker, compared to an analyst on a trading desk who is indeed a trader...the IB analyst is really a "financial analyst and presentation modeler" until they get promoted into a role where they are doing similar work as the MD (talking with / advising clients and coming up with new business ideas)...and THEN they are an "investment banker"
I don't even think about stuff like that, what a waste of time (because it really does not matter).
Nonetheless, I only say I work in investment banking. I agree, that if you're not in a position of bringing in deals / cultivating relationships, you aren't really doing the role of a banker (in the commonly perceived way), even if the work is related. But, since investment banking isn't a field like Medicine, Accounting etc, where once you pass qualifications you can formally say you are a doctor or an accountant, the distinction between working towards, and having the title of the profession, is not definite.
If you work for an investment bank where your work directly impacts capital raising, you are an investment banker. I have never heard anyone say Analysts are not investment bankers. Despite anyone's level, everyone deserves the same amount of respect.
If you are a bench player on an NBA team, you are not an NBA player.
Yeah and only astronauts work at NASA or you're "just a scientist" that runs the numbers and doesn't actually go to the moon
Thank you please humble these clowns
If you're a janitor that is responsible for cleaning specifically investment banking coverage and product group floors, you too are an investment banker... LOLOL
^^ i say that in all jokes, but if the janitor stopped doing his/her job for 1 week the whole floor would notice it a lot more than if an IB analyst disappeared for a week ahaha
Not at my bank according to the voicemails on my phone
I'd argue that analysts are in a separate "analyst" category. Associates are beginning to move down banking as a career path and are "junior bankers". Then, individuals actively responsible for generating business are "investment bankers" or "senior bankers".
At the end of the day, it's semantics and not all that important, but why have a forum if you can't debate pointless finance topics.
At the BB I'm at, on employees' Microsoft outlook ID card it say their title (i.e. analyst, associate, VP etc.) and also shows their rank in that role (analyst 1 vs analyst 2). However, once you get to VP it would say (Vice President, Investment banker 1). it does that up to 3rd year director (I-banker 6) then MD's are Sr. I-bankers. Just what I have seen. Generally agree that the analyst/associate role is different.
We need to shut this thread down before it blows up LOL
Didn’t think it would get like this lol. Just wanted to know a few thoughts. I personally dont give a shit. I just say I work in finance and say “I make PowerPoint slides” they just look at me weird.
Hahaha, no I think it's a good question. Reminds me of the funny threads debating things like the Oxford Comma and stuff hahaha, just silly think that you'd only see on this forum.
That's like saying an Associate in BigLaw is not a lawyer. Banker is the occupation, Analyst is the job title.
When you're working 80-100+ hours a week in the investment banking division, you can call yourself an investment banker. Everyone who says otherwise is a hater.
Even at VP it’s execution grunt work and proofing decks
This could be said about all the big finance ones. Like you are not a private equity investor until your a VP/Partner. You are not a management consultant until you are a partner. All jobs at the junior level is just bitch work, just different versions of it with different types of bullshit to deal with in each one. I would say the only job you actually get to do the work you want to from when you start would be hedge funds. From analyst to pm to partner, your still an investor of sorts. But all the other ones you just again do bitch work until they basically trust you enough to let you start making your own decisions and realizing your ideas in a way (just have to deal with again lots of other forms of bullshit at the senior level).
As long as you're in IBD and working on deals, you're an investment banker.
If you're an analyst/associate then you're a junior banker. If you're a VP/MD, then you're a senior banker.
I agree with this.
At my firm there is a tendency to specifically refer to guys who are making deals (VP and above) as "bankers" which makes sense to me, but every analyst or associate would still say they work in investment banking
If you need a “staffer” to actually function in your job and give you work then you may have to question whether or not he has a point... regardless of how inadequate that may make you feel.
It’s refreshing to finally see something new to make a bunch of 20yr olds feel insecure. Well done, OP.
People get so butt hurt. I’m only a first year but older than most analyst. Military time and what not, so I just dont care about the stuff interns and a lot of these analyst care about. But funny to see people butt hurt over something like this.
who gives a shit, they could make my title "little bitch boy" idc as long as they pay me.
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