I am in the process of lateraling to BofA, this move represents a platform upgrade from me as I come from a bank one or two tiers below (Jeff/WF/RBC).
My bank actually pays very well, and bases on what I've read about BofA, I am concerned that I might end up losing a lot of money because of this move.
For context, I want to do a career in banking, I am no looking for buy-side exits.
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Godawful place to be a career banker because the pay haircut is massive from Aso onwards. Additionally, if you’re a white or Asian male, you will be working terrible hours with low pay to subsidize incompetent women’s underperformance.
Unless you have nothing else going for you, or are DEI and want to leech off the system, would stay away.
are the female MBA asos really that bad?
Worse than you would possibly believe . Genuinely subpar intelligence for any job let alone a “prestigious” one
Bad to look at yeah
Yes it is that bad.
Analysts get paid market and MDs get paid OK but everywhere in between you will get paid significantly below market. It’s laughable.
Please do not move to BofA. The upgrade in prestige comes with a downgrade in pay. I was at BofA till a few months back and speaking from experience, the pay is god awful. Your stress will double just because of sheer amount of MDs to report to and the number of products this firm is chasing
The firms you have mentioned certainly pay more than BofA. BofA pays street only for top buckets (tippy-top)
Senior Leadership conducted an offsite for senior MDs in IB sometime last year and the message was “we need to put more swagger in our discussions with clients, we are a top 3 bank, and we need to act like it”
This alone should tell you much about how deflated the IB MDs are that leadership has to conduct a pep talk here and there. In some of the townhalls IB leadership has mentioned very clearly about bringing “swagger”. No one’s really getting paid, because BofA’s leadership truly believes that the BofA brands gets us the mandates and clients, and there is really no reason to hustle to get clients.
It’s also not a great place to be a career banker. For a career banker you need growth opps to get to the next level, and BofA is extremely bloated. They have cut down on promotions in IB (VP through MD) and moved many of those propromtions to their the AI / Tech dividion
He should go to BofA, tbh.
If he wants to be a career banker, he should take the pay cut now to upgrade his bank and then potentially move to another bank like Citi later on. The real question is where he would have the best chance of eventually making MD. Jefferies seems like a stretch, while Wells Fargo might offer a more realistic path.
Yeah that’s fair. I don’t know which position OP is latering to, but Analyst to VP promotion is pretty much sure shot (unless you are bottom of the pile). My comment is largely towards VP+ years. In the last few years, VP to Director pipeline, has slowed down. I know excellent VPs, who stayed back a year or so after 3 years of VP to become directors, and directors who have waited for 6-7 years to become MD. Changing jobs at VP3 / Director 3 is a pain, and the industry wants to see evidence of progress to the next level, otherwise you are getting a lateral offer.
I don’t know about you all, but in my mind staying stuck in a poor environment is worse off than getting fired and starting afresh somewhere else.
Just to add some high level context / history on BofA for those less aware: prior to GFC the brand was non existent in mega cap IB. It was maybe 20th in league tables. They acquired Merrill Lynch in 2008 and it was basically a reverse merger. An early mentor of mine was an early career banker at BofA and said that when they acquired ML, all the ML Investment bankers were much better than the current ones BofA had so they laid off all the BofA people and kept the ML people
That was fine for a while as they kept using the BAML name in IB marketing so they could go to market as Legacy Merrill Lynch (which was a top 3 IB name and maybe even top 1 for those with a more WASPy background compared to Jew-y GS or whatever).
More recently they got rid of ML branding in IB and GTM has been BofA (I even met some undergrads in recent recruiting events that pronounce it “BOOO - FAA” lol). Now BofA as a name is not known for IB and consequently paying IB compensation. It’s a major American regular bank. 40,000 or whatever regular way folks taking deposits and making commercial loans across America. Now all of a sudden they have to “stomach” and “associate” with some 30 year old kid in NYC who demands $500k of annual comp to do just another form of “banking”. It’s a cultural and organizational challenge. Different for GS MS and JPM which are known IB names and every back office or hourly worker who signs up for the bank knows they are partially funding some 30 year olds $1mm bonus or whatever. JEFF same. Wells probably dealing with similar concept as BofA but approaching it differently. BofA may pay better in the future, but just so some 18 year old kid has a better understanding of why BofA may be in such a position currently, I posted.
I hope this helps
The end part of your statement basically implies BofA does not view IB as a strategic priority compared to other banks (including other BS banks like Citi and Wells Fargo, by the way). IMO it comes down to strategy - BofA does not value the IB business the same way other banks do and on the margins chooses not to invest as much into the group (ie pay their people)
But JPM at its core is a retail bank so why your logic doesn’t apply to them
Chase bank is the retail bank. J.P. Morgan the name is a “high class / ultra wealthy” name. He was one of the richest people in the USA. It clearly is a place for wealthy people to make big paychecks. They are known to be a wealthy place. Chase Bank is part of the corporate parent but the hourly workers there work for Chase. It’s a separate name. Less association. Yes they are owned by JPM and trade under the same ticker but there is a different.
BofA retailers and IBers both work for the BofA name.
There could be other reasons as well. The JPM IB was just Bear Stearns. They even kept the same office 383 Madison and just changed the name.
Could be other reasons too.
Maybe just Jamie and his management team are head and shoulders better than Moynihan (as good as he is) when it comes to managing the tension and keeping their IBers happy and feeling like they are getting paid enough overall while at BofA they feel underpaid.
Prob more to the story. Just sharing some ideas to make progress in maybe understanding the situation.
Good luck. 🤑🤑🤑
“You must be from Bank of America”
So Charlie Geller from The Big Short wasn’t really lying
Merrill was a catholic firm not a wasp firm
Thanks. I appreciate you correcting me with that. I hear the difference. I come from a more Israeli/Jewish background so am learning the differences between Catholics and Protestants/WASPs and such. Thanks again 🙂🙏👍🏼
OP,
Please do not take actionable real life advice from an Internet forum. You know the only frequent users are literally teens and twenty years olds or people who troll 95% of the time like me.
Is BofA on the same level as Goldman or MS or JPM in terms of compensation and prestige and intelligence coworkers? Of course not.
But it’s a major investment bank lol. Its pay is still decent (especially compared to jobs outside of Wall Street), solid benefits and here’s the most important thing…
You said you want to be a career banker right? So what’s better than a large bank that hesitates to fire people, doesn’t have ultra mega star MDs who work you to the bone and can still win deals based on name alone?
I certainly would rather work at a mega cap that doesn’t have an itchy trigger when it comes to firing and pays a little less, than an uber bank that acts like I-banking is as important as being a doctor or a policeman and fires the bottom 10% of performers every year just to keep everyone stressed and motivated.
And exits oops are just fine. Plenty of BofA MDs have recently left to go to EBS or become heads of groups at other places.
If you’re smart and hard working you will be just fine. Remember the user shitting on BofA likely goes to a fake Ivy like Brown or was too stupid to even get into Duke, and will never have a fruitful and long career in finance.
Think about it on just a basic level. You really think BofA just mints money every year cause only lazy morons work there? Yes, they don’t have as many good bankers are some of their peers, but isn’t that actually a good thing if you work there?
Tbh, making MD is probably more important than where exactly you do it. The key question is which bank offers the clearest path to getting there.
I would assume that the path is easier at a bank where senior bankers manage established accounts and can generate revenue through existing client relationships and cross-selling. In that respect, a large balance-sheet bank may offer a better route than a boutique.
An MD at Wells Fargo is also probably paid more than a senior VP or Director at many more prestigious firms. So if becoming a career banker is the goal, I would optimize for trajectory and promotion prospects rather than brand.
Yes OP, listen to this guy. Do BofA, or even better, do UBS! you will not regurt. Trust.
Most folks at BofA are stressed and demotivated, and you can see that in the body language of the Bankers there. Morale has taken a beating at all levels given the incessant work and poor pay. If the OP is happy to stay under the radar and clip paychecks, then BofA works, but if OP has any ambition, then they will look for other Opps.
OP - Regardless, of what’s said here on this forum, if you do end up going to BofA, please negotiate a bonus package for a year or so. Depending on your level, they might be open to structuring a guaranteed bonus package. I have seen new lateral hires get absolutely reamed in year end bomuses (think 10-45K bonus for Associate - Snr Associate hires)
Nah this is wrong. Either go to a JP, GS, MS and actually learn / get real experience / have ambition, or go to a bank like you describe and coast. The problem with BofA is it’s the lowest paying bank on the street - OP is better off going to a less prestigious bank like RBC or whatever, minting way more coin, and working with easier competition. BofA slowly chips away at your psyche by paying bottom of street every year while simultaneously bragging about being top 3 in everything. Why put yourself through that
Ahh yes, OP stated he has offers from all top banks and can easily get into all those places.
Lol.
I would caution against listening to this guy's advice. You can tell he has not actually worked at BofA recently. All his assumptions are fine if you believe BofA is acting in line with what you think a typical bank would do. The problem is they have had huge leadership switches almost every year recently so nothing is common sense there anymore. It is a gruel getting promoted after your VP years at the bank because there is so much bloat and they keep hiring more cast off directors and MDs from other lower tier banks to try to make up for their own massive departures. Also, the be a career banker you actually have to close deals and get experience. There is so much bloat that it is a knife fight getting on a good deal now and so much dead weight up top that you won't be able to develop your own book. The money also should not be understated. The VPs here for the most part probably get paid closer to market associate comp. Not even kidding.
I know people who work there, like we all do.
Everyone at BofA is miserable? No one is making any money? Wtf are you talking about.
It is a major i-bank lol. Sure it has had some leadership turnover and lost some MDs, but you idiots on here act like its on the brink of failing and there will soon be a max exodus of people. You think it would suddenly stop doing lev fin and m&A and ecm, and drop coverage of fintecn and C&R or something?
It a massive bank, so of course you can cherry pick and find some unhappy souls and grumble about pay. But what about the pros? They don't fire as much as other banks, solid benefits, stock has been trending upwards so your stock based comp has not gone down if you have any. Over the last 5 years, the stock is up 50% not down.
And all banks lose great talent cause they always get poached, bofa is no different.
OP - people on here just like to shit talk every bank. If you had posted about GS, they would have said so what your comp is good, they work you like a dog.
Take a step and ask yourself if BofA sucks so bad, why do they still lead a decent amount of deals, why hasnt every single good banker left and is your current bank really that much better?
i would personally take jefferies over bofa
Also just more on your decision, if you want to make a full career (like 30 years or whatever) in banking then if your goal is to maximize career earnings, the next 10 years until MD are only part of the equation; even though they may be very valuable because of how sooner they are compared to years 11 to 30.
That said, there is more to a career besides just building a big bank account. If you want lifestyle. If you want coworkers you enjoy being with. If you want a firm that aligns with your values. If you want a good location that fits. Whatever it may be it adds up. As other posters have said, if this is a career long decision, you shouldn’t just base it on how much you’ll make from Associate to SVP. That may be an important factor but in effect those are “training” years and you don’t really become a “banker” in the eyes of the industry until you make MD somewhere and actually generate revenue or at least have revenue attributed to you as the lead generator for that assignment.
Hope this is good food for thought. Good luck
BofA is literally the UBS of American banks.
No idea why you’d go from WF to BofA honestly..
You’ll be fine. I spent 4 years there - is it the ideal place to be, no. But you could be in a worse spot. BofA has relatively solid deal flow and a good brand.
But - as others have mentioned you will miss out on a ridiculous amount of comp over just a few years as VP/D. That’s the main reason I left - sure I want to be a “career banker” but this job is difficult and moving up (after VP) is not a guarantee. I’d rather go somewhere comparable and make ~$500k more through my VP and early D years. I also somewhat disagree with the people saying BofA has a lot of “opportunity.” Maybe the bank changed since I left two years ago, but the ranks were extremely bloated and it was hard to move up.
The “swagger” talk is funny - it’s hard to have swagger when you get paid bottom of the street and the messaging is essentially your individual efforts don’t matter, our brand wins the business, so we are paying you like shit. The hypocrisy is unreal.
It’s not a terrible move tbh but I’d keep your head on a swivel and look to get out at the right time so you can harvest some actual money. Also try negotiating comp so you can get at least a couple years of acceptable pay.
yes.
i get paid in cad but in usd
People saying not a big deal I think are underestimating how terrible pay is at BofA. If you stay at BofA just a few years, that money you lose out on from both the shitastic bonuses and terrible stock performance (since BofA stuffs comp with stock) will actually end up being a monetary amount most Americans can retire on. Others have touched on it, but it is not just the bonuses. It is morale and actual strength of the bank. They have lost countless top talent across all levels in the past 12 months as people finally had enough where they are missing complete sector coverage at this point in certain industries.
What's mid VP pay at BofA these days
50 for lower middle to 150 for upper middle to 250 for toppy top bucket
That can't be true
lol, I was a middle ranked VP last year and bonus was like 300k so this is way off. They do shaft the bottom bucket as they should at all ranks. Those people largely shouldn’t be in this job.
50 for lower middle to 150 for upper middle to 250 for toppy top bucket
Take every comment in this website with multiple grains of salt. Try to talk to current and former members of the group you’re considering, and gather a more genuine understanding of the group rather than relying on the anonymous comments here.
On a separate note why no thread on the HORRIFIC NY KILLING???
Whats the bonus for associate level?
I was upper middle bucket for 3 associate years at BofA. My bonuses were $85, $85, $105
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