Military: Employer of Last Resort
This just came to mind. Any thoughts?
-Bryce
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I have a thought.......you're a moron.
^^^^A moron who'll soon have a gun...
Perhaps you're an even bigger moron????
Morons do not get to keep their guns for very long
May I suggest a trip to Kentucky to convince you otherwise?
Weird question, but what is the perspective in finance of guys coming from officer vs enlisted? Or do they look at merit, ie: supply chain officer vs infantry sgt
I should clarify, there wasn't meant to be any negative connotation with military employment. The argument being that if you have been unsuccessful with your job hunt in the financial services industry or any other industry for that matter, with the exception of the military, you can almost certainly find a paycheck and at least decent prospects of a long-term career within a branch of the military, if you fit the minimum mental and physical criteria.
You are going to want to experience your 4 years of active duty before you can even begin to speak in terms of making a career out of it. Serving your country should be just that.....serving your country. Not a job of last resort.
Unfortunately, this isn't very far from the truth for some people. I'm in the military so don't get all offended because anyone in the military knows there are plenty of people who joined for a pay check. Is it any less honorable to join? I know that I wouldn't do what I do for 1/2 of what I currently make. The military (in the case of junior officers anyway), much like banking, has good exit ops. At least in the case of the service academies, and still extended to the military brother/sisterhood in general, there is a strong network on the street, and many of the top F500 companies. The only real drawback of going military is that you usually go right to business school after without IB/PE experience, and the buy side is not an option, at least until the more senior levels anyway.
I truly believe you need to have at least a semblance of a desire to give back and serve your county if you are going to be successful, but especially in this market I wouldn't tell someone to write off joining the service if they had no other prospects employment-wise. It is a good life, and the military (at least the air force in my situation) really take care of their people.
There are some bad reasons to join the military, but the OP's was the worst.
jc I don't the OP is talking about joining the military to put food on the table, or else he'd be posting on a military forum not WSO. I think the OP's looking at it as a legitimate way to fill time and get good experience on your resume in light of getting nothing finance related. Awful reason and the OP might as well just put himself on suicide watch now, because that's the only thing this leads to, that or Chapter 11...or Leavenworth.
I see jc is posting from an officer's perspective, that I can't speak to, but if the OP's even thinking about going in as an enlisted soldier...well then see my above post.
Fuck you guys. There's absolutely nothing wrong with joining the military if you need the money. Some people weren't born with a silver spoon shoved up their ass.
Somebody completey missed the fucking point. Read the actual replies, then comment. Don't just skim for words you don't like.
Yes there is. People who join the military for a paycheck or to get their school paid for end up being the assholes that complain all of the time and then fake PTSD so they don't have to stay overseas during a deployment. If you want to take a job to collect a paycheck go flip a fucking burger where your worthlessness can't get the guy next to you killed.
Getting a spot in OCS is extremely competitive. You can't just walk into a recruiting office and say "I have a degree, I would like to be a lieutenant please." You could (almost) always enlist, but many (not me) consider that to be wasting for years of college.
it's also a lot like wasting FOUR years of college.
deleted
Jobs within the military are very selective. Kind of like comparing working at the mail room at GS vs working FO at GS. The Marines have very high standards. OCS is elite. Groups within the military are elite.
The military is a great place for people to get their shit together. Calling them some refuge for losers is a disservice.
^^^This
Also.....for the other poster, you could do a lot of other easier things than the military for the money.
Kind of Ironic that Anthony said the Marines have very high standards. They have the lowest average ASVAB scores and the highest average physical fitness scores. (No offense to anyone just a little harmless ribbing)
JC really nailed it. This is, unfortunately, closer to the truth than most people are willing to admit. That being said, just because someone views it as the 'employer of last resort' doesn't mean the military needs them as an employee. Plenty of 17 year old, wannabe MMA fighters with 4 kids and 3 teeth think the army is their golden ticket. Fortunately, there are a fair amount of stop gaps in place to ensure that these people stay out of the service or at the very least, are driving trucks or cooking (not to demean these people as those are very necessary jobs but the risk of something catastrophic happening if they make a mistake is much smaller than other jobs.)
I think a lot of people don't realize, or at least refuse to acknowledge, the different between intelligence and intellect. Sure, there are mechanics in the army that couldn't figure out how to put their name on the answer sheet for the SATs but some of those guys are INSANELY apt at fixing things that most other people would write off as destroyed/inoperable forever.
My only point is this; yes, there is an element of truth to this but more so in the mentality of people who want to join than of those who are actually in.
Where did you get that Info? I know the Army has the lowest required ASVAB score, but how do you know the actual average results?
Its actually a pretty funny story. I went to a presentation for some officer's association BS like 4 months ago and they had a powerpoint that made fun of each service. That was one of the stats quoted from the DOD so, while funny, it was legit.
Ok fair enough. I was actually once insulted by a Seal (working on the street though) who asked if I even had to the ASVAB to be Marine.
I'm 7 years into my Navy stint now, and I would have to agree that for some out there, the military is the employer of last resort. I love my country as much as anyone, but an honest assessment of some of the types that are allowed to enter and then promoted in our services would shock an outsider.
Did you know that foriegn nationals are allowed to join the military and become US citizens after 2 years of service? Do you think these foriegners are PhDs out of India or people who got picked up off the streets by a military recruiter in San Diego? I've had to shuffle responsiblities amongst enlisted maintainers in one of my shops from an E6 to an E5 because the E6 couldn't speak english - kind of a big deal especially if you're that E5 wondering what your future holds.
The truth is that the military does a horrible job of allocating manpower. I have seen 30% of a graduating class of 100+ Army ROTC students told that they couldn't comission, after the government just paid for 4 years of college. I have seen yeargroups cut in half during flight training, with luck and timing being the only determinant of retention. And I've seen people get promoted early because there are not enough people to promote in the year group ahead of them.
Most of the jobs that come to mind when people think of the military are infantry, armour, artillery, aviation, ect - what I call the "trigger pullers". But the majority of the people who make up the military aren't trigger pullers at all. They are administrators, or burecrats in uniform. Not to poke fun or discredit what they do - I just think that the average american doesn't realize this when they think of their military service members. These administrators do a wide array of important jobs, and many of them are highly talented. But there are a TON who are not, and this is where you will find your non-english speakers, chicks who get pregnant a week before deployment, guys who are 20 and are with their 3rd wife and 3rd child, and people who won't put out because they're in "the union".
The military gets what it pays for. An E3 who is married with kids is getting 20-30k per year depending on their living situation, and that is below the poverty line even in Mississippi. I've seen several guys in this situation come back from deployment to find their car sold, someone else living in their house, 5 maxed out credit cards in their name, and their family on the other side of the country. And they have no recourse.
But I still love what I do. I think there are more than enough folks in the military who are dedicated to preforming to the highest of their abilities and are the people answer the call to serve everyday. Chances are you guys don't know who cleans the shitters in your office, whether it is FO or BO, but in the military that poopsmith just might save your life, which is why you treat him with respect wether he is there to do great things for this country or because it's his only chance for a paycheck.
Interesting discussion.
Wannabeaballer, this article is pretty good and talks about some of the issues you describe.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/why-our-best-office…
[quote=macro]Interesting discussion.
Wannabeaballer, this article is pretty good and talks about some of the issues you describe.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/why-our-best-office…] I read the article and I'm wondering what the ratio of officers leaving is between active duty and reserve.
First off, titling your post "Military: Employer of Last Resort" was not the brightest idea.
First off, I take it that you'd prefer to enter as an officer. The majority of officers went through an ROTC program or an Academy... meaning it was a decision they made when they were 17/18 years old - not a last resort.
That being said, you could go through OCS, where you're more likely to find "last resort" type candidates. However, OCS is EXTREMELY competitive right now. You can't just walk into a recruiting office and sign up. There's an extensive application, medical check, and background check. You have to take a standardized test, submit recommendations, submit transcripts, perform a physical test, and only THEN does your application get to be presented in front of a board. At minimum, it's a 6-month process.
However, the military can be a strategic move career-wise. The GI bill will pay for your grad school (public) and employers drool over former military officers. Oh, and you're also automatically set up with an expansive network at literally every BB/Fortune 500 company...
All in all, you do have to have a desire to serve your country. The US military is the last place for self serving employees.
Agree with the rest of your post, but unfortunately, this isn't as true as I would like or as true as many are led to believe.
It is true, but not for the corp dev positions business-minded folks on WSO would be interested in. I am getting out of the military and I am getting hounded by a bunch of recruiters for low-6 figure salary positions--not bad for a 27 year old with no MBA. But here is the rub: it is for operations and program manager type positions. It is not for marketing or corp dev or executive slots. In my own opinion, the deadly knock-out combo for employers (in terms of military candidates) is really:
Quant degree from Top UG w/ ROTC or Service Academy-->Distinguished service record w/ at least 1 deployment to the sand box w/ broad exposure to leadership and responsibility-->Top 7 MBA
This seems to be the magic pill right now. Even in the 2008 market almost all Top MBA military vets got great jobs in the fields they wanted.
I can't speak for what it is like for ROTC guys, but I honestly believe the service academies, if you can handle the challenge, are the best "target" school to do well in life in general (just not PE given the hiring structure). You train, you learn, you get paid relatively well in a good job for 5 years with medical and education benefits, and did I mention you graduate the academy with $0 in tuition debt because everything, including books, computer, uniforms--even underwear, is issued to you? Most guys go career out of the academy, but there is still a significant fraction who pop smoke after 5 years (myself included). What you have waiting for you is a network of 30,000 grads across the different industries waiting to lend you a hand.
It's definitely not a last-resort process though, the academies are among the schools with the lowest acceptance rates:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/lo…
I also have to say that one thing I like about the academies and the de-emphasis of what your family's social status is. Being a legacy has very little to do with getting in. The school is 100% about merit and if you can take your beating like the rest of them.
Fair points. I think the Service Academy thing plays a bigger role than you, and many others, may give it credit for though. If you go to fuck knuckle community college, being an officer only helps so much. Great insights though.
You mean Norwich?
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