Moving away to the tropics?
Since I live in a depressing cold Nordic country in which the days are grey 90% of the year, I've been playing with the thought of moving to the tropics (Caribbean or ME) in order to live out my 20's and 30's. Freezing your balls off for the better half part of year and being soaked in the rain during the other half isn't that appealing and thus I'm looking for an escape.
This is definitively a few years down the line for me (if at all) yet I am still playing with the thought. But a quick google search of the various tax havens in the Caribbean doesn't reveal much about how life for an average white collar guy is like on those islands.
I am therefore wondering if anybody got any experience or knowledge about daily life, salary and income level, cost of living, as well as job prospects in these places?
I am only just finishing my graduate degree in finance with a heavy emphasis on quantitative finance. I consider myself an adept programmer on the side and enjoy very quantitative and data analytical jobs, this is therefore also an considerable factor in my tropical "job search". IB doesn't really appeal to me but I don't imagine you would find many IB jobs on such small islands anyhow. But I don't figure you will find many quantitative jobs either, so what options are there on these islands for a rather new graduate (1-5 years of experience (upon wished moving date))?
This is only a very far fetched idea, but perhaps others more serious about it can find some helpful answers in this thread.
Go to NYC. You can fly to Miami every weekend if you want for $100-$200 bucks roundtrip.
While that is an valid option, I in general dislike extremely metropolitan areas (thinking major American cities, European capitals are miniscule by comparison), several reasons for that, one being the absurd rent prices in a city like NYC. Besides, the day to day climate in NYC doesn't have that Tommy Bahama vibe to it that I am looking for in order to shake up my daily life a little.
Besides I think there is also a point to be made in the fact that flying (even from NYC) to just the northern part of the Caribbean (Bahamas for instance) still takes 4+ hours and is a very time consuming endeavour when you factor in shuttle time to and from the airport as well as time spent in the airport itself. This makes it completely unviable as a weekend getaway option. Only in holiday seasons would this option be viable in a 5-7 days getaway.
Yeah maybe SoCal or Miami if you want the year round nice weather.
Oh ok you're Nordic? Gustav Iden and Kristian Blummenfelt are some of my favorite Norweigan triathletes.
Big win at Kona recently for Gustav
Middle East should be way easier to move to than Caribbean I would've thought with the same corporate job offerings as other major cities. Dubai is like 3m people and Cayman Islands is 60k. I know its a well trodden path for corp lawyers to go Cayman and less so BVI but not really sure about the finance scene - basing that off only really heard lawyers talk about them both. And they seemed to say it's quite boring i.e. there's nothing to do past beach stuff and everyone knows everyone, COL is also pretty high.
Either way ME or Caribbean both seem like great lifestyles and am considering doing the same at some point (UK is also depressing although I do like London). Imo Dubai or Abu Dhabi seem the best options and with zero tax, that makes a serious difference to your overall NW, not to mention COL is typically cheaper than London/NYC type cities. Culture may be different/difficult but personally I like arab culture so not a big deal for me. Only negatives is I've heard Dubai is pretty fake/soulless i.e. think LA/Miami + the summer is very hot which some people don't like (although not really different from being in a cold country and having to be indoors during winter).
I've considered Dubai quite a bit as well. I'm just afraid that it will be very "fake" as you say and that a lot of people will just be there to flex their wealth. I'd like to genuinely create a life there with a family and friend circle, which I am concerned that Dubai wont be a good place for (perhaps I've got it all wrong). Also how does Dubai differ in job opportunities from the alternatives listed in the post?
OP - from what you've said, I would probably echo Dubai (especially as you are European so wouldn't be a long distance to get home etc). Personally in your situation I would do New York and then fly to the Caribbean as has been already suggested (but then I've lived in both London and New York and absolutely love them both). But if you're not keen on that then Dubai is probably the next best bet.
Does it have its downsides? Of course - I must caveat here that while I've visited Dubai/UAE a few times I've never worked out there. But downsides seem to include overly flashy/bling culture, as well as being confined to hanging out with other western expats in all likelihood (the Emirati citizens keep to themselves as do migrants from poorer parts of the world).
Having said that - it also has a fantastic finance scene, nothing compared to NY/London of course but still extremely vibrant with lots of career opportunities. And having to pay no income tax is a nice (big) cherry on top for you as a European. And having visited a few times, I can say that it really is a great vibrant city - with tons of interesting/fun stuff to do aside from partying or mindless consumerism.
Also probably my biggest rebuttal would be - personally I think most of the downsides to Dubai would apply to the Caribbean. Not the flashy lifestyle perhaps, but certainly being confined to the expat community - also bear in mind a lot of these islands e.g. Caymans, Bermuda are really small, and everybody knows each other. I have friends of friends/colleagues who have worked in the Caymans in finance roles, and they say that going out in the evening you literally will encounter the same people everywhere. And they also complain there's not really much to do out there - of course the beaches are incredible, but you won't find the cosmopolitan culture that you would get in a major city. So your recreational activities are really quite limited if you're spending a long time out there. Dubai on the other hand would have an absolute ton of stuff to do (albeit doesn't rival London or NY imho).
I guess Miami or SoCal could be a great middle-ground (as already mentioned by the poster above). Tbh I know little of the finance scene there, my understanding is it's relatively small - also in Miami you would still have the issue of dealing with the "flashy culture" (perhaps not to the same extent as Dubai, although I'm not sure about that). But either way I think whilst the Caribbean is an absolutely amazing place with amazing people, it could be quite limiting both personally and professionally if you relocated there permanently.
Thanks for the reply, I'm gonna exploit the opportunity and ask you if you know more about quantitative jobs in Dubai or the vicinity? I'd imagine it has a lot of wealth management, but how does it hold up for someone interested in the data/quantitative aspects of the industry? What direction is that part of the industry headed in Dubai?
My main concern with Dubai/ME is that a lot of the companies are gonna be immature/a prestige project of some sheik. I had this happen to a friend who works in wealth management, some of his colleagues got insane signing bonuses with a new ME wealth management company but it went bust after a few years due to mismanagement. So what established/"good" companies are potential employers in Dubai? Venturing into a new region also means there's gonna be a lot of local companies which are healthy and good places to work at, but that an outsider doesn't know about simply because its a regional company. So besides the big international banks what are some regional ones that are up to standards.
In all honesty I don’t know much about the jobs/market environment in Dubai - I do know a few friends of friends/ex-colleagues who have worked there for some time, however they’ve all been working for big banks or asset managers/other large institutions. That would probably be the way to go imho - as you say if you join a small local firm there’s a risk you may not get the experience of working with institutions (just local private clients) and also on your resume may not be given that much weight by recruiters should you ever decide to return to your home country or go elsewhere.
Depending on how long you can/want to wait, the ideal move might be to work for a bank in your home country with a presence in the UAE and then seek to move out there as soon as is practicable.
I would throw in the shout of Singapore into the mix, if you haven't considered it already. The country/city is warm/hot all year around, super clean, smaller, and provides dirt cheap travel options to all the Asian spots with amazing beaches (Thailand, Bali, etc.).
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